Detailed Speaker Setup and Optimization

[sbnx]

This is a pretty low bar test to find the least worst reverberent field in the room around the vocal range ... I don't think it tells you a great deal.
In my living room I have a perforated corrugated metal ceiling with an absorbtion coefficient of 1
My voice sounds exactly the same against the wall or anywhere else in the room ... so it changes with acoustic design.
I guess this assumes no acoustic treatment of the space
A delayed , correlated reverberent tail in the listening area is what you want... that is both clear and lively

Phil

I never said the WASP method is the end of the road. It is simple and quick method to find a good spot for the speakers. (Good. probably not the best). It was developed by Dave Wilson as a method that he could teach his dealers to quickly setup speakers. Dealers don't have days or weeks to setup speakers. The other thing is the zone it finds is relatively close to the font wall which is where most people in a "normal" living environment want their speakers. The thing Dave never mentions is that you can find other "zones" in the room where your voice will sound natural. Look at the pictures of the setup of the speakers in his room. They are well out from the wall. But that is irrelevant for a dealer setting up a pair of speakers because 99% of their clients can't or won't put the speakers that far away from the wall.

Rex is exploring "HOW" to do this. He needs some structure and he needs to develop some listening skill. IMHO the first skill anyone needs to acquire is how to find spots where the bass works. The WASP method does a good job of that.

 

[Kingrex]

I can put my speakers where I want. They are both open baffle.

What is delayed, corrolated reverberant tail.

I have REW and a Uni 1 mic now.

 

[Kingrex]

Also, with my peaked ceiling, I am open to stripping drywall and packing rickwool, then laying cloth over the top. I will use a few tube traps as needed.

 

[racerxnet]

Also, with my peaked ceiling, I am open to stripping drywall and packing rickwool, then laying cloth over the top. I will use a few tube traps as needed.

Run the room sim in REW for the best response from 20hz to 300. This is where most gains in clarity are found.

 

[pjwd]

I never said the WASP method is the end of the road. It is simple and quick method to find a good spot for the speakers. (Good. probably not the best). It was developed by Dave Wilson as a method that he could teach his dealers to quickly setup speakers. Dealers don't have days or weeks to setup speakers. The other thing is the zone it finds is relatively close to the font wall which is where most people in a "normal" living environment want their speakers. The thing Dave never mentions is that you can find other "zones" in the room where your voice will sound natural. Look at the pictures of the setup of the speakers in his room. They are well out from the wall. But that is irrelevant for a dealer setting up a pair of speakers because 99% of their clients can't or won't put the speakers that far away from the wall.

Rex is exploring "HOW" to do this. He needs some structure and he needs to develop some listening skill. IMHO the first skill anyone needs to acquire is how to find spots where the bass works. The WASP method does a good job of that.

Fair enough... although I don't think it gives you a lot of info re bass

 

[Elliot G.]

I never said the WASP method is the end of the road. It is simple and quick method to find a good spot for the speakers. (Good. probably not the best). It was developed by Dave Wilson as a method that he could teach his dealers to quickly setup speakers. Dealers don't have days or weeks to setup speakers. The other thing is the zone it finds is relatively close to the font wall which is where most people in a "normal" living environment want their speakers. The thing Dave never mentions is that you can find other "zones" in the room where your voice will sound natural. Look at the pictures of the setup of the speakers in his room. They are well out from the wall. But that is irrelevant for a dealer setting up a pair of speakers because 99% of their clients can't or won't put the speakers that far away from the wall.

Rex is exploring "HOW" to do this. He needs some structure and he needs to develop some listening skill. IMHO the first skill anyone needs to acquire is how to find spots where the bass works. The WASP method does a good job of that.

Agreed, I also suggested the two methods as a place for someone that does not know how to set up speakers as a place to start. This place is a beginning and a way to at least find a reasonable place in the room for someone to get a decent result. There is no substitute for experience and knowledge however even experts need to start somewhere. Todd is correct that the overwhelming majority of end users don't have a dedicated space and will not place the speakers way out in the middle of their room. The two methods take a lot of the searching for mysteries without any clues out of the process. Nothing is the only way or the perfect way but these methods and Jim Smith's book certainly are very helpful for those who just need some quality help.

 

[Jim Smith]

"...these methods and Jim Smith's book certainly are very helpful for those who just need some quality help."

Thanks Elliot. To my dismay, I have been unable to travel and setup systems for almost a year now.

The only positive thing I can say about my health issues is that I had an Aha!!! moment recently.

As I thought about the hundreds - probably thousands - of systems I've voiced in my audio career, it occurred to me that it sure seemed that the audiophiles that I worked for (or with) were consistently a brighter class of people when compared to all of the other people I knew.

Then I ran across an article that suggested that listening to music was a real helper in mental acuity, even reducing the potential effects of dementia when compared to the rest of society.

Aha!!!​

 

[Elliot G.]

"...these methods and Jim Smith's book certainly are very helpful for those who just need some quality help."

Thanks Elliot. To my dismay, I have been unable to travel and setup systems for almost a year now.

The only positive thing I can say about my health issues is that I had an Aha!!! moment recently.

As I thought about the hundreds - probably thousands - of systems I've voiced in my audio career, it occurred to me that it sure seemed that the audiophiles that I worked for (or with) were consistently a brighter class of people when compared to all of the other people I knew.

Then I ran across an article that suggested that listening to music was a real helper in mental acuity, even reducing the potential effects of dementia when compared to the rest of society.

Aha!!!​

The health benefits of listening to music are widely known and I talk to my clients about this . I can't live without music and I try daily to spend some time in my room, in the dark, alone just listening to music and when I am done I always feel better. Music can change your mood, remove stress and anxiety, lower the outside noise and change your outlook. Screens entertain you but IMO never relax or remove stress they usually add it.

 

[Kingrex]

Screens suck the life out of me. I don't have my stereo running, but find it relaxing to read a book. Much better than turning the TV on.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

The health benefits of listening to music are widely known and I talk to my clients about this . I can't live without music and I try daily to spend some time in my room, in the dark, alone just listening to music and when I am done I always feel better. Music can change your mood, remove stress and anxiety, lower the outside noise and change your outlook. Screens entertain you but IMO never relax or remove stress they usually add it.

Screens suck the life out of me. I don't have my stereo running, but find it relaxing to read a book. Much better than turning the TV on.

no screens in my listening room. mostly the lights are dim and i let the music do it's thing. or read.

upstairs is my 85" big screen Dolby Atmos 'lIte' sports watching spot, and i do follow my games on-line while listening, and will pop upstairs when it's something really good going on. i'll do a short stretch of TV for a few hours once a week just for a change......although right now there is the 'Euro's" Football, and i'll sample each day's Tour de France from the replay. these are 'events' which do draw me. streaming services and the opportunity to watch on my schedule is nice.

i'm a life long sports fan, but zero interest in TV programs.

watch the occasional movie in the home theater in the house with the wife, maybe once a month.

 

[Amir]

"...these methods and Jim Smith's book certainly are very helpful for those who just need some quality help."

Thanks Elliot. To my dismay, I have been unable to travel and setup systems for almost a year now.

The only positive thing I can say about my health issues is that I had an Aha!!! moment recently.

As I thought about the hundreds - probably thousands - of systems I've voiced in my audio career, it occurred to me that it sure seemed that the audiophiles that I worked for (or with) were consistently a brighter class of people when compared to all of the other people I knew.

Then I ran across an article that suggested that listening to music was a real helper in mental acuity, even reducing the potential effects of dementia when compared to the rest of society.

Aha!!!​

Thank you for helping and sharing your experience in "get better sound" book.

 

[sbo6]

I can put my speakers where I want. They are both open baffle.

What is delayed, corrolated reverberant tail.

I have REW and a Uni 1 mic now.

All these methods without measuring are approximations. You need both measuring and listening to achieve what for you is the optimal speaker placement.

 

[Macattack]

Rex - Big proponent of finding the listening position first - with the speakers close to an equilateral triangle. Aka Jim’s method. It makes so much sense and most importantly, it works!
Craig

 

[Tonari]

All these methods without measuring are approximations. You need both measuring and listening to achieve what for you is the optimal speaker placement.

I always take measurements if I have to do speakers setup. I would say it helps you get there more quickly. But one can make it with listening and trials as well as patience.

 

[stehno]

I don’t think anyone is disputing the science of room acoustics. Sound can be reflected, transmitted, absorbed or diffracted (diffused). Absorbers will absorb the sound wave above its cutoff frequency. I think was some are sying is that they work too well. There is no dispute (at least I don’t think there is) that absorbers reduce the amount of energy in a room. That’s what they do.

...

Dispute acoustic science as applied to high-end audio? I just might if somebody could sufficiently articulate what it's all about. That aside, I wholeheartedly dispute the overemphasis / high priority often assigned to acoustic science.

Regardless, if the acoustic science as applied to high-end audio is legit, then shouldn’t it be a no-brainer for perhaps any serious student of acoustic science to…

1. Identify the unnatural hollowed empty-coffee-can-like and/or the room sonic signature found in so many playback presentations and in-room videos?

2. Explain why these oh-so-common unnatural room-related sonic signatures are present even though we’ll never ever hear them when attending live performances?

3. Suggest sufficient remedies to minimize or even eliminate these rather unpleasant and unnatural sounding sonic signatures?

4. Articulate why one ought to promote acoustic science to a level of importance perhaps over and above all else?

If a student of acoustic science is unable to sufficiently respond to the first question, then I'd venture the other questions are moot anyway? If a student of acoustic science is unable to sufficiently address the other 3 questions, then exactly what kind of science are we talking about here?

At the very least it would seem if there’s any legitimacy to acoustic science as applied to high-end audio, then shouldn’t those not following the science suffer far more from their playback presentations and in-room videos?

There’s much to be said about this topic, especially since it bleeds into other performance-limiting topics. But I’ll stop here by posting an in-room video of an average-engineered recording, performance, and playback system to substantiate my position that the importance placed on acoustic science is, if nothing else, greatly exaggerated and hence, to some degree akin to chasing windmills. Even though certain aspects can provide outstanding sonic benefits.

Perhaps a follower of acoustic science can point out my many acoustic anomalies. Better yet, maybe they could post their own before and after or at least after in-room video to substantiate their position while also showing how far short of the acoustic science mark my video must be since I’m not a true follower of the science?

I think it was sbnx who said, the best way to evaluate the benefits of acoustic science is to listen at higher volume levels. So crank my video all the way up. It’s also got some great guitar in the back half.

 

[jeromelang]

Can someone provide some specific pointers as how to position the loudspeakers for the most effective bass coupling with the room?

What kind of test signals would you play? Music or test tones?

What do you listen for in the test tracks? Deepest bass extension? Smoother transition from deep low notes to the upper bass notes, even if bass extension is not as deep?

What do you do to the loudspeakers in the process to achieve optimum bass coupling?

Is it better to achieve deepest bass extension or more evenness throughout the spectrum at the listening position?

 

[oldvinyl]

Can someone provide some specific pointers as how to position the loudspeakers for the most effective bass coupling with the room?

What kind of test signals would you play? Music or test tones?

What do you listen for in the test tracks? Deepest bass extension? Smoother transition from deep low notes to the upper bass notes, even if bass extension is not as deep?

What do you do to the loudspeakers in the process to achieve optimum bass coupling?

Is it better to achieve deepest bass extension or more evenness throughout the spectrum at the listening position?

See my prior post about the info from Cardas.

 

[treitz3]

When one has it right? They know. There are no more questions.

Tom

 

[Jim Smith]

The bottom line, at least for me, is when I stop listening to sounds and I fall into the music.

 

[Elliot G.]

The bottom line, at least for me, is when I stop listening to sounds and I fall into the music.

When you get to the destination you no longer require the directions!