Detailed Speaker Setup and Optimization

[sbo6]

Dispute acoustic science as applied to high-end audio? I just might if somebody could sufficiently articulate what it's all about. That aside, I wholeheartedly dispute the overemphasis / high priority often assigned to acoustic science.

Regardless, if the acoustic science as applied to high-end audio is legit, then shouldn’t it be a no-brainer for perhaps any serious student of acoustic science to…

1. Identify the unnatural hollowed empty-coffee-can-like and/or the room sonic signature found in so many playback presentations and in-room videos?

2. Explain why these oh-so-common unnatural room-related sonic signatures are present even though we’ll never ever hear them when attending live performances?

3. Suggest sufficient remedies to minimize or even eliminate these rather unpleasant and unnatural sounding sonic signatures?

4. Articulate why one ought to promote acoustic science to a level of importance perhaps over and above all else?

If a student of acoustic science is unable to sufficiently respond to the first question, then I'd venture the other questions are moot anyway? If a student of acoustic science is unable to sufficiently address the other 3 questions, then exactly what kind of science are we talking about here?

At the very least it would seem if there’s any legitimacy to acoustic science as applied to high-end audio, then shouldn’t those not following the science suffer far more from their playback presentations and in-room videos?

There’s much to be said about this topic, especially since it bleeds into other performance-limiting topics. But I’ll stop here by posting an in-room video of an average-engineered recording, performance, and playback system to substantiate my position that the importance placed on acoustic science is, if nothing else, greatly exaggerated and hence, to some degree akin to chasing windmills. Even though certain aspects can provide outstanding sonic benefits.

Perhaps a follower of acoustic science can point out my many acoustic anomalies. Better yet, maybe they could post their own before and after or at least after in-room video to substantiate their position while also showing how far short of the acoustic science mark my video must be since I’m not a true follower of the science?

I think it was sbnx who said, the best way to evaluate the benefits of acoustic science is to listen at higher volume levels. So crank my video all the way up. It’s also got some great guitar in the back half.

You seem to have a binary approach to your supposition - Acoustic science diehard / experts and those that are not.

The reality is different - you can espouse to what you call Acoustic Science or I'd call it Acoustic Engineering principals which can be applied to 2 channel systems' rooms, however the limit(s) of applied theory and analysis is commonly WAF and budget. At the end of the day, we all do our best to make do with what tools, time and $ is available to get the most out of our systems and rooms.

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

Been spending a lot of time in setup over the years and especially in the past year with and without adding acoustic treatments.

Having a few interesting designs come through my room and while some have worked really well others have highlighted major struggles playing in the room. The takeaway is the with a lot of absorption you have to push the speakers harder as they are less efficient and placement of such treatments (both absorption and diffusion) can make major differences in location. It doesn't surprise me in the least, listening to so many rooms and systems over the years, that some have had great success and others have not. I do agree that large rooms usually sound better as they mitigate a lot of modal issues in their virtue of increased room boundaries.

I would say that a treated room is going to reveal deficiencies in your speaker design and system performance more than a live room ever could. When you get direct sound, and the room is no longer contributing its color, you may realize your system performance goes down and not up. Dynamic speakers may sound more rolled off or tonality and harmonics start to suffer.

So many factors once the room is tamed than just is it better or worse.

For room setup for those who do not have a lot of time, money or experience I find L.O.T.S to be a great resource to teach as well as optimize your placement

 

[stehno]

When you get to the destination you no longer require the directions!

Hopefully, I completely misunderstood your post because otherwise, sometimes you guys can say the darnedest things. Like you or anybody else possess the expertise to determine when any part of any playback config has arrived at their supposed most optimal operational destination. The implications of such statements are numerous. For example.

- It implies that you already know / understand everything there is to know / understand.
- It implies that you’ve sufficiently addressed every potential shortcoming and in only the most superior rather than inferior way.
- It implies that there’s nothing more to discover.
- It implies you’ve arrived.

If I'm reading your post accurately, that’s pretty darn worldly if not downright arrogant (and naïve) if you ask me.

I’m sure such mindsets exist elsewhere but I don’t recall ever seeing this type of mindset in other performance-oriented industries yet, it’s seemingly a daily occurrence in high-end audio.

For the record, It’s impossible for any of us to determine whether or not any part of our playback configs have reached their ultimate destination because they never will. Like any other performance-oriented industry, performance is truly a journey and never a destination.

You could possess the absolute best sounding most genuinely musical playback config known to man. But it’s only the best until the next more superior component is released or the next individual takes an effort to the next level. IOW, there's always tomorrow.

And if I’m right (I am), then isn’t this arriving at some imaginary destination mindset really nothing more than a performance-limiting self-deceiving mindset?

 

[Elliot G.]

And if I’m right (I am

Perhaps if you read my comment in context to my conversation with Jim Smith you would have understood rather than make wild assumptions. You do what they say about those that assume?

is that I'm right a "ONE MAN SURVEY"

 

[stehno]

When you get to the destination you no longer require the directions!

Perhaps if you read my comment in context to my conversation with Jim Smith you would have understood rather than make wild assumptions. You do what they say about those that assume?

is that I'm right a "ONE MAN SURVEY"

Silly me. It was probably the "When you get to the destination you no longer require the directions" thing that threw me off. Boy, do I feel dumb.

 

[Amir]

Nice topic,

Now my friend’s room in CA
Stirling Trayle is working on the setup

 

[Amir]

I also changed the position of my right speaker so now both speakers are fully symmetrical and the stereo triangle is rock solid precise.
Both speakers are not in neutral zones and I should start finding the perfect position of both speakers.
I also find a good position for listener chair and In first step the stereo soundstage is very good.
Now I have perfect symmetrical speaker position and perfect listener position so the soundstage is 3D not 2D.

If I find the perfect speaker position I will have 3D sound without room distortion.

 

[Amir]

If you want imagine how precise stereo triangle change the sound from 2D to 3D you can read this :

Autostereogram - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Ron Resnick]

View attachment 140563

Hello Amir,

Are those David-style DIY diffusers on the front wall?

 

[Amir]

Hello Amir,

Are those David-style DIY diffusers on the front wall?

Hello Ron,
Yes , My friend visited David and David helped about diffusers. If you can visit my friend I can ask him to invite you and listen to his Living Voice System. My friend is in CA.

My friend think Stirling is very professional and he improved the sound dramatically after changing the speaker position

 

[J007B]

If you want imagine how precise stereo triangle change the sound from 2D to 3D you can read this :

Autostereogram - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

This link has nothing to do with sound...

 

[Ron Resnick]

I can ask him to invite you and listen to his Living Voice System. My friend is in CA.

If your friend is in Southern California I would be happy to visit!

 

[Ron Resnick]

My friend think Stirling is very professional and he improved the sound dramatically after changing the speaker position

I think we all think that Stirling is very professional!

 

[Amir]

Yesterday Romy the Cat wrote about Stirling Trayle:


“A very rare but very strong recommendation.

Stirling Trayle and I exchange a few you messages. I sent him a link to DPoLS translation and he immediately identified some weaknesses of the article, very impressive. I find that what he does is exceptionally interesting and uniquely rare. I have a reputation do not patronize on recommend any business or services in audio but in this case I would like to make exception and provide my very strong recommendation to use Stirling Trayle while she is still able to operate. As I understand he is in his 60s and after he will be gone this knowledge, from epistemological perspective will be lost. I did suggest him to write a book, I do not think he will, and it is very unfortunate.”

 

[Amir]

What my friend in CA (Mayer) says about Stirling Trayle?

Magnificent experience!

He told me there is no need to pay million dollars for audio system, if you have a good audio system at reasonable price it would be enough.

Just call Stirling Trayle for Speaker placement then you will shock .

Audio Systems Optimized | Petaluma | High End Audio Set-Up

Audio Systems Optimized provides home audio system set-up and optimization services, specializing in high-end turntable and loudspeaker setup.

www.audiosystemsoptimized.com

 

[Amir]

When Stirling Trayle place your Speakers in perfect position then you will forget the sound and your hearts connect to music so there is no need to pay for more expensive audio equipments, just relax and enjoy.

 

[sbnx]

What my friend in CA (Mayer) says about Stirling Trayle?

Magnificent experience!

He told me there is no need to pay million dollars for audio system, if you have a good audio system at reasonable price it would be enough.

Just call Stirling Trayle for Speaker placement then you will shock .

Audio Systems Optimized | Petaluma | High End Audio Set-Up

Audio Systems Optimized provides home audio system set-up and optimization services, specializing in high-end turntable and loudspeaker setup.

www.audiosystemsoptimized.com

Hello Amir,

Why don't you ask your friend to write a little about the sound of his system before and after Stirling set them up. He could use parts from the songs he knows well. He could compare each part before and after. What changed? Is it better or just different? I think this would be insightful.

Thank you,
Todd

 

[Amir]

Hello Amir,

Why don't you ask your friend to write a little about the sound of his system before and after Stirling set them up. He could use parts from the songs he knows well. He could compare each part before and after. What changed? Is it better or just different? I think this would be insightful.

Thank you,
Todd

Hello Todd,

me and Mayer had long conversation about the sound. He believes no one should pay even $1 before proper speaker setup. The real game changer is speaker placement not spending million dollars for high end equipments.
He told me Stirling adjusted his speakers with less than 1mm and the sound is magnificent.

I am in Iran so I can not travel to USA but Ron Resnick will visit my friend so Ron can describe his experience about the sound.

Thanks
Amir

 

[PeterA]

Hello Todd,

me and Mayer had long conversation about the sound. He believes no one should pay even $1 before proper speaker setup. The real game changer is speaker placement not spending million dollars for high end equipments.
He told me Stirling adjusted his speakers with less than 1mm and the sound is magnificent.

I am in Iran so I can not travel to USA but Ron Resnick will visit my friend so Ron can describe his experience about the sound.

Thanks
Amir

I hope Ron takes some photos and uses his nice recording gear to make a video. Imagine a before and after video of these set up efforts.

 

[Tangram]

While I’m still a bit skeptical of “1 mm makes a huge difference” claims, hiring someone who has accumulated experience from setting up hundreds of different systems is a bucket list item for me. It’s like hiring a super computer, but one with proprietary algorithms! That said, the Stirlings and Jims (and Todds!) of the world can only get a bad room sounding so good. So to make this worthwhile, I’ll need a different room. We’ve been looking at real estate for years and at least in our neck of the woods, that means finding a unicorn - unfinished basement with 9+ foot ceilings. An additional challenge is we like century homes. Hence the low ceiling in my current room. I did look into digging out the basement of our current home but it was cost-prohibitive, even for a crazed audiophile. And the sump pump would run all the time!