Digital Upgrade: Is Full Frame Worth it for Our Use?
- Thread starter LL21
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coming back to this thread...i am looking at 2 options and would appreciate advice. To refresh: we have a Nikon D5100 (16mp, DX) and a Nikon 18-200 telezoom (good for what it is):
Option 1: Get Nikon 70-200 f/2.8 (VR 1 so about 8 years old...but direct from Nikon distributor with 18 month warranty)...700 bucks (vs newer 70-200mm f/2.8 which costs 2,200)
Option 2: Get Nikon 7200 (also DX, 2nd hand from Nikon distributor)...also about 700 bucks.
Option 3: Get both...keep just our 18-200mm lens.
I think Option 1 makes the most sense...and just sit tight and wait til, say, the new D7500 which is due to come out in June perhaps comes out 2nd hand next year.
We take few photos, always use 1 of the 32 pre-settings...but will take pictures of Maccu Pichu or Taj Mahal...and blow them up to 4 feet x 5 feet. We think for pure amateurs who are time constrained...the 70-200mm seems like a good bang for buck improvement. Thanks for advice!
Option 1: Get Nikon 70-200 f/2.8 (VR 1 so about 8 years old...but direct from Nikon distributor with 18 month warranty)...700 bucks (vs newer 70-200mm f/2.8 which costs 2,200)
Option 2: Get Nikon 7200 (also DX, 2nd hand from Nikon distributor)...also about 700 bucks.
Option 3: Get both...keep just our 18-200mm lens.
I think Option 1 makes the most sense...and just sit tight and wait til, say, the new D7500 which is due to come out in June perhaps comes out 2nd hand next year.
We take few photos, always use 1 of the 32 pre-settings...but will take pictures of Maccu Pichu or Taj Mahal...and blow them up to 4 feet x 5 feet. We think for pure amateurs who are time constrained...the 70-200mm seems like a good bang for buck improvement. Thanks for advice!
- First it's a question of range Lloyd, 70mm is already telephoto range what are you going to do for your wider angles?
- There's no difference in glass between the versions only the electronics, VR2 is faster acting and can come in handy in hand held low light level shots or fast paced sport shooting, but there are techniques to overcome that if needed.
- The 7200 is a better camera than your D5100 but you'll notice more the deficiency of the 18-200 with this camera, but then again depending on your expectations YMMV.
david
- There's no difference in glass between the versions only the electronics, VR2 is faster acting and can come in handy in hand held low light level shots or fast paced sport shooting, but there are techniques to overcome that if needed.
- The 7200 is a better camera than your D5100 but you'll notice more the deficiency of the 18-200 with this camera, but then again depending on your expectations YMMV.
david
Hi David,
Thank you! I specifically remembered and went back to your comments about the 70-200mm some time back. The vast majority of the photos we take that we care about:
- Blow up to 4 feet x 5 feet: Macchu Picu, Angkor Wat, Taj Mahal, Safari
- 'Hardcover story/picture books' of our travels which my wife likes to make as our coffee table books...portraits of us while traveling, plus the landscapes, safaris
We have our 18-200mm (27mm-300mm with our DX camera)...and find we use the zoom a lot because we are often quite far from our targets, or are taking them at night when its tougher to capture it with low-light. (We will keep this lens no matter what since its excellent for what it is and does.)
The advice we have received is that while both the body (Nikon D750 or D7200/7500) and lens (70-200mm f/2.8) will make an improvement, since body and lens cost the same...the lens will make the bigger improvement for us.
We intend to bring our camera and lens...take photos around the store, outside, etc...and then swap for the 70-200mm f/2.8 and if we really can see the difference in our shots, we likely go for it at the price and with the warranty. But if not, we probably save our money, enjoy taking photos with what we have which has produced some very nice coffee table books and 2 beautiful 4'x5' framed photos on our walls.
Hi Lloyd,
If you're blowing them up that much then definitely the camera will make a difference, as will the lens of course. I would go for the VR1 & the D750 instead of the VR2 for the similar money. I don't think you'll see much difference with casual shots from around the store, like everything else you need to put work & thought behind it to see the benefit of better gear.
david
If you're blowing them up that much then definitely the camera will make a difference, as will the lens of course. I would go for the VR1 & the D750 instead of the VR2 for the similar money. I don't think you'll see much difference with casual shots from around the store, like everything else you need to put work & thought behind it to see the benefit of better gear.
david
Hi David,
Thank you again.
1. I am sure better body and better lens will be...better. But candidly, I think we are buying the lens or the body, but not both...unless we are absolutely blown away by the combination.
2. As for taking photos around the store...yes, I agree. I hope they have a full-refund guarantee for at least a day or a few days to allow us to test drive. But just in case, we will take the camera outdoors in front of the store...shoot backlit trees, buildings, shadows, etc...and see what we see when we do the same shots with our existing lens.
Thank you again.
1. I am sure better body and better lens will be...better. But candidly, I think we are buying the lens or the body, but not both...unless we are absolutely blown away by the combination.
2. As for taking photos around the store...yes, I agree. I hope they have a full-refund guarantee for at least a day or a few days to allow us to test drive. But just in case, we will take the camera outdoors in front of the store...shoot backlit trees, buildings, shadows, etc...and see what we see when we do the same shots with our existing lens.
Lloyd,
Hope all is well. I bought a Nikon 70-200 F2.8, the version before the FL that's out now. I use it and a Nikon f1.4 50mm with my Nikon 300s. I like you, debated lens or camera. I went for the lens b/c the new 70-200 had a price increase and I found a new 70-200 (non FL) for right at 2k. It's a big and heavy lens. Once your past that, it's spectacular with DX.
I'll upgrade my camera one day... the 300s keeps taking great pics especially of family and wildlife which are my normal subjects.
Net net, I'd go for the lens...You could also get a f4 70-200 and save. Not sure if I'll really use the lower light capabilities of the f2.8
Thanks for the advice...i always aim to buy once and buy right. For 700 bucks the generation earlier of your 70-200 f/2.8 seems plenty good for us. Of course we will try to do a little test driving with it first, but it sounds like a good thing to be doing and with an 18-mos warranty from Nikon's distributor, probably not crazy given their reputation for high build quality with this lens.
I know some people were not happy with the newer VRII version of the 70-200 F2.8 lens, it has a problem with focus breathing.
Thank you...yes, i read about that. in the end, no lens is perfect...and while the newer version of this lens does NOT have this problem...that is a level of perfection that is well beyond the skills of a photographer like me. In truth, a excellent condition, 2nd had warrantied 70-200 2.8 VR1 is plenty good, i suspect. We will try to test it out tomorrow and see. Again, appreciate the fair warning.
Went to Nikon distributor today with our D5100 and compared our (excellent) 18-200 to the 70-200mm f/2.8 VR 1. We took a few outdoor shots while we were there with both lenses, and compared on the camera screen. Even a simple shot of a wall or a close up of a street sign showed big improvements with the better lens. Particularly in sharpness, detail and what i believe is referred to as depth of field.
For 700 bucks with an 18-month warranty from Nikon distributor and 14-day full refund, we took it home with a view that this lens is a professional lens that amateurs like us buy once and done. The current version of this lens costs 2200.
For fun, before we left we also tried the 70-200mm with a Nikon D7200 and compared vs our D5100...yet another improvement along the same lines though the differences to our eyes between the lenses on the D5100 was greater than upgrading the body from D5100 to D7200.
Since bodies change so often, we left it but had learned something about the differences one can get from these improvements.
For 700 bucks with an 18-month warranty from Nikon distributor and 14-day full refund, we took it home with a view that this lens is a professional lens that amateurs like us buy once and done. The current version of this lens costs 2200.
For fun, before we left we also tried the 70-200mm with a Nikon D7200 and compared vs our D5100...yet another improvement along the same lines though the differences to our eyes between the lenses on the D5100 was greater than upgrading the body from D5100 to D7200.
Since bodies change so often, we left it but had learned something about the differences one can get from these improvements.
Hi Bob...now looking into this as the prices have come down quite a bit...also looking at a 17-55 f2.8 second hand which is less than 1/3rd the retail price, (and possibly TC14E or TC17E 2nd hand...reviews from bythom.com and rockwell with 70-200mm f2.8 suggest extremely good results.) Thanks for your advice...have long kept the 7200 in the back of my mind.
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Lloyd, have you ever tried the 50mm f1.4 or f1.8? vs the 17-55 f2.8? You don't get the wide angle perspective, but the 50mm is super sharp, great at any light, small and relatively cheap...
I've been quite happy with a 70-200mm and my 50mm. That's all the glass I have for now. I may get something wider down the road but after my experience with the 50mm will stick with a prime vs zoom...
Thanks, JFrech! I think (for now!) a 17-55 f2.8 is plenty good for people like us who enjoy going out to shoot when we travel but are not avid photogaphers. (at least, my wife who does shoot often, does not shoot with the big camera often...but when we go to shoot, we will trek someplace exotic to do it.) So in that case, I think we felt that flexibility to shoot wide all the way thru 300mm at f2.8 with some pretty sharp glass (and with a TC 14E or TC17...probably shoot thru to 510mm at f4.3-4.8 which seems reasonable to do based on several reviews) gives us in 2 lenses the ability (probably way beyond our skill) to shoot nearly any landscape, portrait, close up, or super-zoom shot and make the most of it when we really want to go for it.
perhaps when we have learned more we can spread out a bit and start picking lenses that have greater specificity when we know what we like to shoot and how. These are very very nice lenses for novices, but at 2nd hand 65-70% discounts, seems a smart thing to do when we've got manufacturer's warranties on them.
Just a note, Thom Hogan(bythom) is a real authority on Nikon/equipment in general, Rockwell is not worth paying any attention to IMO. Make sure the TCs are compatible w/the 17-55 btw, it isn't a given that they are. They're generally designed for longer lenses.
Thank you! Yes, bythom is now at dslrbodies.com I am looking at the TC 14 ii or TC 17ii which would be for our 70-200mm f2.8 VR1...not for the 17-55 f2.8 (although i will ask if that is even possible, as that could make for quite a flexible lens.) Thom has been very positive for TC 14 or 17...but ONLY for f2.8 lenses or zoom lenses.
Hi Bob,
Here is a quote from Thom's review of the 70-200m f2.8 VR 1 we own incl the use of the TC14:
"...Performance with the TC-14e teleconverter is nothing short of astonishing. How good is it? Well, I can't see any differences between the 70-200mm at 200mm with a TC-14e and the highly regarded 300mm f/4 AF-S! That's both unexpected and unprecedented. In other words, if you need a 300mm f/4 AF-S, just get the 70-200mm and a TC-14e. You'll get a more versatile lens and lose no sharpness...
http://bythom.com/70200VRlens.htm"
Using a DX camera, the 70-200 + TC14 gives us an equivalent 147-420mm lens (since DX on a 70-200mm is already 105-300mm). with the 17-55m f/2.8 being effectively 25-83mm, then we are pretty much able to cover in 2 lenses a wide range from 25-420mm with quite high quality...more than great enough for amateurs like us. Its really about the photographer now!
Hi Bob,
Here is a quote from Thom's review of the 70-200m f2.8 VR 1 we own incl the use of the TC14:
"...Performance with the TC-14e teleconverter is nothing short of astonishing. How good is it? Well, I can't see any differences between the 70-200mm at 200mm with a TC-14e and the highly regarded 300mm f/4 AF-S! That's both unexpected and unprecedented. In other words, if you need a 300mm f/4 AF-S, just get the 70-200mm and a TC-14e. You'll get a more versatile lens and lose no sharpness...
http://bythom.com/70200VRlens.htm"
Using a DX camera, the 70-200 + TC14 gives us an equivalent 147-420mm lens (since DX on a 70-200mm is already 105-300mm). with the 17-55m f/2.8 being effectively 25-83mm, then we are pretty much able to cover in 2 lenses a wide range from 25-420mm with quite high quality...more than great enough for amateurs like us. Its really about the photographer now!
Here is his sum-up of the D7200 which we aiming to get next (2nd hand):
"As you’ll see in my Recommended Nikon DSLRs article I posted simultaneously with this, the D7200 joins the D810 as the only two current Nikon DSLRs in my “great” category (as opposed to just really good DSLRs). It’s a fine camera. No, it’s not a D400, but that doesn’t make me like it any less. A lot of us are going to be heading out to our favorite wildlife sanctuary with a D7200, and I doubt we’ll be complaining about much, if anything. The D7200 will do me just fine until a D400 comes along."
Thanks for recommending it as we continue to learn more.
Hi Lloyd, I think you are taking the right strategy investing in lenses though I would say that as I still run a D7000 several years on, mostly with the Nikkor 35mm prime lens. You may wish to consider the new D7500 as this uses some of the D500 internals within the smaller D7200 form factor, review below.
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d7500.htm
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d7500.htm
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