Dire Straits - Love Over Gold -------- Masterpiece?

[NorthStar]

TO=Tony Orlando was a joke, Bob. Perhaps my response to your question was muddled because I did not understand your question.
BTW, if you go back to the original post, you will see that TO actually = Time Out.

-----I just don't know that guy; Tony Orlando.

______________________

TO = Time Out (Dave Brubeck & gang).

* So, Myles was also joking, 'cause I don't know either that other guy; Terrell Owens.

You guys have a great sense of humor; I like very much.

 

[mep]

Tim-I see the point you are trying to drive home, but I don't think it is the same thing by a long shot. I don't have to hear my mother's voice everyday in my house to recognize her voice when she calls me on the phone. Certain sounds are ingrained in your brain and are not to be forgotten. The sound of a car horn, the sound of a siren, the sound of a railroad train crossing-you get the idea. The same applies to musical instruments. I don't need to hear a piano everyday to recognize a piano or any other musical instrument including drums. However, if I quit listening to digital for many years, I might not remember what a digital version of a recorded piano sounds like compared to an analog version of a recorded piano. Ditto for all other instruments that are recorded digitally. I hope you see the distinction because it's pretty clear to me.

And I can't believe that you don't know what Tsssst sounds like. Just say it out loud and you will know and it sure is what lots of digital cymbals sound like.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I just went last night up the road to hear a three piece polka band, hi-hat, snare and bass drum. I could and did walk right up behind them (three feet) and listened to several songs. All that metal being smacked by a wood stick sound sort of sucks unless you hit one of those big symbals (near the edge) and let it decay, to me that is a nice sound, and digital does it as well as analog IMO, but in general symbals to this old boy just sound like they are supposed to, to make emphasis to the music and well, they sound yucky most of the time. And they did live on this occasion, as well as any occasion Ihear them.....but thats just me.

anyway, just for a bit of relief since we got off topic a bit about symbals sounds, check this dude out: Scoot in about 35 seconds and watch that drummer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItZyaOlrb7E&feature=related

Tom

I don't know that I'd call them yucky, Tom, they serve their purpose and have their place in the music. And sometimes -- a lightly tapped ride cymbal, a artfully-damped hi hat -- they can sound really nice. Of course they can also go tsssst and splash and do, a lot, in the real world. Some people think that's wrong, they think their hifi systems are working their best when they take the edge off of these things. I disagree.

Mark - I can, of course, make the tsssst sound. I can even make the tssst t-t-tssst t-t-tsssst. Open hi hat being closed on the third beat. Maybe tssst is different to you than it is to me. Maybe I just need to hope you know the sound of your mother's voice on the phone better than tsssst. Glad you got the point. That weird argument of yours, while it was obvious you were having a good time with it, wasn't really holding much water.

Tim

 

[Bill Hart]

I just went last night up the road to hear a three piece polka band, hi-hat, snare and bass drum. I could and did walk right up behind them (three feet) and listened to several songs. All that metal being smacked by a wood stick sound sort of sucks unless you hit one of those big symbals (near the edge) and let it decay, to me that is a nice sound, and digital does it as well as analog IMO, but in general symbals to this old boy just sound like they are supposed to, to make emphasis to the music and well, they sound yucky most of the time. And they did live on this occasion, as well as any occasion Ihear them.....but thats just me.

anyway, just for a bit of relief since we got off topic a bit about symbals sounds, check this dude out: Scoot in about 35 seconds and watch that drummer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItZyaOlrb7E&feature=related

Tom

Tom,
There is only one difficulty. There are no audiophile polka records. This is unfortunate, because if there were, I would probably buy one. (I grew up in Pittsburgh, where before heavy metal and mullets ruled supreme, it was "Polka Party" and staged television wrestling. (usually the same audience, too)).

 

[mep]

I just went last night up the road to hear a three piece polka band, hi-hat, snare and bass drum. I could and did walk right up behind them (three feet) and listened to several songs. All that metal being smacked by a wood stick sound sort of sucks unless you hit one of those big symbals (near the edge) and let it decay, to me that is a nice sound, and digital does it as well as analog IMO, but in general symbals to this old boy just sound like they are supposed to, to make emphasis to the music and well, they sound yucky most of the time. And they did live on this occasion, as well as any occasion Ihear them.....but thats just me.
Tom

Aside from your misspelling of the word “cymbal” I still am shocked to hear someone say the sound of cymbals is “yucky” most of the time. If you told me your stereo system made the sound of cymbals “yucky” I would understand that. But you are talking about the sound of hearing them live and hanging that description on them. ‘Wow’ is all I have to say.

 

[NorthStar]

---Cymbals are impossible to reproduce by a pair of loudspeakers. ...The decay, the unique tone, ...

 

[mep]

I don't know that I'd call them yucky, Tom, they serve their purpose and have their place in the music. And sometimes -- a lightly tapped ride cymbal, a artfully-damped hi hat -- they can sound really nice. Of course they can also go tsssst and splash and do, a lot, in the real world. Some people think that's wrong, they think their hifi systems are working their best when they take the edge off of these things. I disagree.

Cymbals never sound like frying eggs or Tsssst in my experience-not in real life and not on analog. The sound a high-hat makes when the cymbals come together is a very unique sound and it is another sound not to be forgotten. And ride cymbals don’t make that noise and neither does crash cymbals in the real world.

Mark - I can, of course, make the tsssst sound. I can even make the tssst t-t-tssst t-t-tsssst. Open hi hat being closed on the third beat. Maybe tssst is different to you than it is to me. Maybe I just need to hope you know the sound of your mother's voice on the phone better than tsssst. Glad you got the point. That weird argument of yours, while it was obvious you were having a good time with it, wasn't really holding much water.

I don‘t agree and I think my comparison (not argument) holds more water than Lake Superior. There is a huge difference between being able to recognize instruments when you hear them live and the difference between what those instruments sound like when recorded via digital or analog. They don’t sound the same and although your memory of what the real thing sounds like will always be with you, the differences between how those same instruments sound when recorded via two different methods may not always be with you. Especially when you strictly listen to how one format interprets the sound vice hearing two different formats telling you how they sound on a routine basis. Apples and oranges Tim even if you think it’s the same fruit.

 

[Bill Hart]

@Whart
The Tuba was great, and the accordian, and then the drummer...three person, live, unamplified music. I like most music and most instruments

@MEP
but banging two pieces of metal plate together (except when they hit the side of the big single metal plate and it has that long drawn out decay that sounds pretty cool) don't float my boat....did not intend to shock anyone, maybe its from working in factories for years hearing banging metal on metal..who knows..

Tom

Accordion is a very under-rated instrument. I was friends with an avantgarde bandleader in the East Village back in the 80's- a group called the 'Microscopic Septet.' Their more famous counterpart was a band called 'The Lounge Lizards,' it was sort of 'fake jazz.' (I digress but that's probably an unfair characterization- it was not 'pure' in the sense they could mix Monk and Ellington and classical brilliantly). Anyway, my friend put together a smaller combo to play our wedding, and his girlfriend, who played accordion, took the lead, he played woodwinds, and there were drums and an acoustic bass. To honor the audiophile spirit, they of course played 'The Look of Love."
I am still married. To the same woman.
I like accordion.

 

[NorthStar]

---The accordion is not underrated in Quebec and France. :b

 

[MylesBAstor]

Accordion is a very under-rated instrument. I was friends with an avantgarde bandleader in the East Village back in the 80's- a group called the 'Microscopic Septet.' Their more famous counterpart was a band called 'The Lounge Lizards,' it was sort of 'fake jazz.' (I digress but that's probably an unfair characterization- it was not 'pure' in the sense they could mix Monk and Ellington and classical brilliantly). Anyway, my friend put together a smaller combo to play our wedding, and his girlfriend, who played accordion, took the lead, he played woodwinds, and there were drums and an acoustic bass. To honor the audiophile spirit, they of course played 'The Look of Love."
I am still married. To the same woman.
I like accordion.

Accordiorama on Vanguard with the Robert Hohrner Accordion Orchestra! 24 piece accordion orchestra.

 

[Bill Hart]

Accordiorama on Vanguard with the Robert Hohrner Accordion Orchestra! 24 piece accordion orchestra.

Thanks M. An accordion orchestra! I think there's still an accordion repair shop on 48th St. I don't remember.

 

[MylesBAstor]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOHNER-ACCO...ic_on_Vinyl&hash=item3a691e9d12#ht_842wt_1140

Interesting synopsis of the label's history:

Vanguard Records was established in New York City in 1947. It was owned by Maynard and Seymour Solomon. The label released classical, folk, international, jazz, pop, spoken word, rhythm and blues and blues. Vanguard had a subsidiary called Bach Guild that released classical music.The Solomon brothers started the company with a loan of $10,000 from their family and rented a small office on 80 East 11 Street. The label was started just as the 33 1/3 RPM LP was just gaining popularity and Vanguard concentrated on LP’s. Vanguard commissioned recordings of five Bach Cantatas and those were the first releases on the label. As the long play market expanded Vanguard moved into other fields of music besides classical. The famed
producer John Hammond (Discoverer of Robert Johnson, Bruce Springsteen Billie Holiday, Bob Dylan and Aretha Franklin) came in to supervise a jazz series called Jazz Showcase.

The Solomon brothers’ politics was left leaning and many of the artists on Vanguard were black-listed by the House Un-American Activities Committive. Vanguard ignored the black-list of performers and had success with Cisco Houston, Paul Robeson and the Weavers. The Weavers were so successful that Vanguard moved more and more into the popular field. Folk music became the main focus of the label and the home of Joan Baez, Ian and Sylvia, Rooftop
Singers, Ramblin’ Jack Elliott, Doc Watson, Country Joe and the Fish and many others.
During the 1950’s and early 1960’s, a folk festival was held each year in Newport Rhode Island and Vanguard recorded and issued albums from the those events.

Vanguard Records was purchased by the Welk Group in 1986. The Welk Group was founded by bandleader Lawrence Welk and is run by his heirs today. The Welk Group also owns Ranwood and Sugarhill records. After purchasing Vanguard, the Welk Group proceeded to reissue the Vanguard catalog extensively. The Vanguard recordings were issued on a multitude of compact discs. Individual artists’ recordings were sliced up into what seems like an infinite number of compilation albums. The Welk Group also rereleased the original Vanguard albums in CD format with bonus tracks added. In the late 90’s and 2000’s the Welk Group also issued new material using the Vanguard label.

Interestingly most of the stereo LPs were recorded by Mark Aubort, known for his Nonesuch work with Nickrenz. We've sadly never heard how good the Weavers LP is based on the 15 ips tape that I have. Hopefully Chad will do it justice in his new reissue but wish he'd have done it at 45 rpm. PS. They eliminating pretty much all the lows (esp. the Weavers stomping around on the stage) on the LPs because they knew the cartridge/arms of the day would have exploded.

 

[Bill Hart]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOHNER-ACCO...ic_on_Vinyl&hash=item3a691e9d12#ht_842wt_1140

Interesting synopsis of the label's history:

Vanguard Records was established in New York City in 1947. It was owned by Maynard and Seymour Solomon. The label released classical, folk, international, jazz, pop, spoken word, rhythm and blues and blues. Vanguard had a subsidiary called Bach Guild that released classical music.The Solomon brothers started the company with a loan of $10,000 from their family and rented a small office on 80 East 11 Street. The label was started just as the 33 1/3 RPM LP was just gaining popularity and Vanguard concentrated on LP’s. Vanguard commissioned recordings of five Bach Cantatas and those were the first releases on the label. As the long play market expanded Vanguard moved into other fields of music besides classical. The famed
producer John Hammond (Discoverer of Robert Johnson, Bruce Springsteen Billie Holiday, Bob Dylan and Aretha Franklin) came in to supervise a jazz series called Jazz Showcase.

The Solomon brothers’ politics was left leaning and many of the artists on Vanguard were black-listed by the House Un-American Activities Committive. Vanguard ignored the black-list of performers and had success with Cisco Houston, Paul Robeson and the Weavers. The Weavers were so successful that Vanguard moved more and more into the popular field. Folk music became the main focus of the label and the home of Joan Baez, Ian and Sylvia, Rooftop
Singers, Ramblin’ Jack Elliott, Doc Watson, Country Joe and the Fish and many others.
During the 1950’s and early 1960’s, a folk festival was held each year in Newport Rhode Island and Vanguard recorded and issued albums from the those events.

Vanguard Records was purchased by the Welk Group in 1986. The Welk Group was founded by bandleader Lawrence Welk and is run by his heirs today. The Welk Group also owns Ranwood and Sugarhill records. After purchasing Vanguard, the Welk Group proceeded to reissue the Vanguard catalog extensively. The Vanguard recordings were issued on a multitude of compact discs. Individual artists’ recordings were sliced up into what seems like an infinite number of compilation albums. The Welk Group also rereleased the original Vanguard albums in CD format with bonus tracks added. In the late 90’s and 2000’s the Welk Group also issued new material using the Vanguard label.

Interestingly most of the stereo LPs were recorded by Mark Aubort, known for his Nonesuch work with Nickrenz. We've sadly never heard how good the Weavers LP is based on the 15 ips tape that I have. Hopefully Chad will do it justice in his new reissue but wish he'd have done it at 45 rpm. PS. They eliminating pretty much all the lows (esp. the Weavers stomping around on the stage) on the LPs because they knew the cartridge/arms of the day would have exploded.

I think i have a mono copy of a Vanguard Weavers, not sure what condition it is in, the yellow reissue as mentioned on another thread, didn't sound very good. Nice history. Lawrence Welk was a big hit in Pittsburgh in the early 60's- I remember his TV show, ' a one, and a two, and a...'

 

[NorthStar]

---Cool & interesting discussion, into musical artists of memory lane.