Doctor's Orders-Part Two-The New Listening Room Of Steve Williams

[highstream]

Your comments aside, I’ve been waiting for the availability and thus price to come back down. Before the pandemic, they were going for around $180 + $45 shipping, if Mable Audio’s site is indicative (they can’t get them now, though their site still shows it at that price). $360 total for a single tube is a bigger risk. That 1948 Philco (S8), which is still in the throes of the burning in process but sounds very good in its best moments, cost $25.

 

[steve williams]

Your comments aside, I’ve been waiting for the availability and thus price to come back down. Before the pandemic, they were going for around $180 + $45 shipping, if Mable Audio’s site is indicative (they can’t get them now, though their site still shows it at that price). $360 for a single tube is a bigger risk. That 1948 Philco (S8), which is still in the throes of the burning in process but sounds very good in its best moments, cost $25.

The tube was $260.DHL shipping was $75 and there was a small handling charge.

Having listened to this tube I honestly feel it was worth every penny. No it's not as warm as the Philco but so much more information is heard with the gz480 than with the Philco. My Philco BTW was 1946 and NOS

 

[jeff1225]

I had a very pleasant visit to Steve's room last Friday to hear all of his upgrades, new VDH cartridge, listening chair and listening chair position. The last time I visited Steve's room, we played his music most of the time. This time I brought some of my favorites to spin. We listened to the following albums:

-Clifford Jordan: Glass Bead Games
- Richie Beirach: Elegy for Bill Evans
-Steely Dan: Aja (Cisco)
-Pink Floyd: Dark Side of the Moon

We started with the Clifford Jordan album, with my favorite cut "John Coltrane." The music flowed nicely from the system, piano was spot on and the horns were well articulated. We then moved on to Richie Beirach, a fantastic trio with Beirach on piano, George Mraz on bass and Al Foster on drums. I thought the system handled this album quite well, with the piano again being the strong point of the system. You could hear the definition of piano and the weight of the hammers against the strings.

We listened to two songs on Aja, Peg and Josie. The male vocals were clean, clear and natural. The imaging was excellent, a strength with Wilson speakers. The bass and drums were tight, something that I worried about with just 30 watts of SET power into those big Wilsons. And...being all Lamm, the decay is always a star and one of the reasons I own the brand. The last record we listened to was the first side of Dark Side. I would have preferred more dynamics on this record than Steve's delivered, but I have horns and dynamics are my preference.

In all a solid spinning session with an excellent lunch (thank you Steve) and as always great conversation.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

I had a very pleasant visit to Steve's room last Friday to hear all of his upgrades, new VDH cartridge, listening chair and listening chair position. The last time I visited Steve's room, we played his music most of the time. This time I brought some of my favorites to spin. We listened to the following albums:

-Clifford Jordan: Glass Bead Games
- Richie Beirach: Elegy for Bill Evans
-Steely Dan: Aja (Cisco)
-Pink Floyd: Dark Side of the Moon

We started with the Clifford Jordan album, with my favorite cut "John Coltrane." The music flowed nicely from the system, piano was spot on and the horns were well articulated. We then moved on to Richie Beirach, a fantastic trio with Beirach on piano, George Mraz on bass and Al Foster on drums. I thought the system handled this album quite well, with the piano again being the strong point of the system. You could hear the definition of piano and the weight of the hammers against the strings.

We listened to two songs on Aja, Peg and Josie. The male vocals were clean, clear and natural. The imaging was excellent, a strength with Wilson speakers. The bass and drums were tight, something that I worried about with just 30 watts of SET power into those big Wilsons. And...being all Lamm, the decay is always a star and one of the reasons I own the brand. The last record we listened to was the first side of Dark Side. I would have preferred more dynamics on this record than Steve's delivered, but I have horns and dynamics are my preference.

In all a solid spinning session with an excellent lunch (thank you Steve) and as always great conversation.

a good horn will always deliver better dynamics than any direct radiating speakers.

 

[microstrip]

a good horn will always deliver better dynamics than any direct radiating speakers.

Why? Will it show more dynamics than the signal?

I usually take subjective comments that include always as an invitation to debate the issue!

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Why? Will it show more dynamics than the signal?

I usually take subjective comments that include always as an invitation to debate the issue!

horns are just more dynamic by nature. I don’t really know why but I have never heard a direct radiating speaker give as good dynamics as a good horn.that’s why I own two different speaker systems.horns for rock,pop music and ribbons for classical and acoustic music.

 

[microstrip]

(...) The last record we listened to was the first side of Dark Side. I would have preferred more dynamics on this record than Steve's delivered, but I have horns and dynamics are my preference. (...)

IMHO the Lamm ML3 is not adequate to play such type of recordings in the Alexandria's. Just listening to the VTL Siegfried in A/B versus the ML3 shows it clearly. IMHO the issue was not due to the speaker, but to the power amplifier.

 

[microstrip]

horns are just more dynamic by nature. I don’t really know why but I have never heard a direct radiating speaker give as good dynamics as a good horn.that’s why I own two different speaker systems.horns for rock,pop music and ribbons for classical and acoustic music.

Exactly my point - it seems you have a system for music that needs some enhancements to recreate the stimulation of rock and pop in house environment and another for acoustic music.

 

[bonzo75]

horns are just more dynamic by nature. I don’t really know why but I have never heard a direct radiating speaker give as good dynamics as a good horn.that’s why I own two different speaker systems.horns for rock,pop music and ribbons for classical and acoustic music.

Horns are usually better for classical and jazz unless you can get dual woofer FLH types which are also better for rock

 

[jeff1225]

It could also be the low wattage SET amps driving the X2's. You really get a beautiful midrange but lose some power and dynamics.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Horns are usually better for classical and jazz unless you can get dual woofer FLH types which are also better for rock

i don't have enough experience with horns to have heard them do really large scale orchestral or rock competently with lots of things going on, like what i experience; but i would love to hear one do that beyond what i hear in my room without restrictions in frequency. not saying it's not out there. i'm sure you will explain. what does it take?

 

[jeff1225]

IMHO the Lamm ML3 is not adequate to play such type of recordings in the Alexandria's. Just listening to the VTL Siegfried in A/B versus the ML3 shows it clearly. IMHO the issue was not due to the speaker, but to the power amplifier.

Agreed. My comment about my horns was more about my personal preferences and that I like dynamics. So if I owned Steve's system I would use the Lamm M1.2 hybrids on the X2's.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Horns are usually better for classical and jazz unless you can get dual woofer FLH types which are also better for rock

I actually believe horns are the only speakers that can sound good with all types of music.

 

[steve williams]

32 wpm doesn't produce the dynamics on the X2 (95 Db efficient) when compared to more efficient horn speakers. Thats fact yet I have accepted and love my system for the music I play. Nothing more to discuss because as I have said many times, the Lamm Signature series is a permanent part of my system

Yet having said that I am at peace with my system because it never fails to keep me engaged and toes tapping. As Jeff said, the mid range with Lamm is second to none. I have no desires to ever switch my electronics for the sake of trying to gain more electronics. To me the magic of all music is located in the midrange. I can live with what I have and never feel lacking. What Jeff convinced me to do is to open the side drapes a little more. I can say however that the drapes were designed by my acoustician to tame the room modes. Opening the side drapes too much invites that problem back into the room but I am prepared to open them some more

Jeff. it was a fun day. I wanted to thank you for the bag of organic plantain chips. Cathy and I loved them and my wife never eats bananas or plantain

 

[Al M.]

Addicted to hifi said:
"a good horn will always deliver better dynamics than any direct radiating speakers."

Why? Will it show more dynamics than the signal?

I usually take subjective comments that include always as an invitation to debate the issue!

Yes, given some, albeit admittedly limited experience with horns (three systems), but having a very dynamic cone speaker system at home, I am not yet convinced of that either. Generalizations are dangerous, especially when they involve the word "always".

 

[bonzo75]

i don't have enough experience with horns to have heard them do really large scale orchestral or rock competently with lots of things going on, like what i experience; but i would love to hear one do that beyond what i hear in my room without restrictions in frequency. not saying it's not out there. i'm sure you will explain. what does it take?

Just fly to Oslo to visit Leif. I have put up videos of his playing Beethoven 9, jazz, vocals, and rock. You do get mentioned in the video of Beethoven 9th

Also, keep in mind rooms like yours are anomalies in this hobby. They can't be used as general guidance.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Just fly to Oslo to visit Leif. I have put up videos of his playing Beethoven 9, jazz, vocals, and rock. You do get mentioned in the video of Beethoven 9th

Also, keep in mind rooms like yours are anomalies in this hobby. They can't be used as general guidance.

thanks.

Oslo. ok.

 

[bonzo75]

thanks.

Oslo. ok.

If the earth was flat (and some on this forum might jump in to a debate it is), Seattle is a corner while Oslo is more center

 

[PeterA]

I think it is great that Steve and Jeff have recently heard each other's system and enjoy spending time together. This is one of the important aspects of the hobby, in my opinion. It is the most important aspect for some. The two respective systems excel at different things and it is clear that each is very satisfied with what he has. And that they can enjoy the other's sound too is a bonus. Two common elements that I can't help but notice are the Lamm electronics and vinyl. I do not think these two systems will be changing much.

I really enjoy reading about such visits: the music and convivial times among friends.

 

[steve williams]

Jeffrey summed it up perfectly at the end when he said” his system is more dynamic (which he prefers) to my system which is more engaging (which I prefer)

one man’s passion can be another man’s poison