Doctor's Orders-Part Two-The New Listening Room Of Steve Williams
- Thread starter Steve williams
- Start date
As I said way back my listening level on the preamps was the 12th detente position. Once the Typhons were added at that position the sound was deafening so I found my listening levels were now 9-10
IOW my preamp has been dialed back that much gain since the Typhons were added
IOW my preamp has been dialed back that much gain since the Typhons were added
There is nothing amiss. I wish I could offer a reason because it is alarming but that's the results
Very weird. To get 4db higher loudness, you need about 1.5x the voltage on the amp outputs. This is hard to rationalize. I may try doing the same experiment this week-end. I have two class A mono's and a typhon in parallel in the same circuit, and an SPL meter.
Steve,
Unless you explain that you are just comparing the level settings of your preamplifier you are using for listening, you risk some people reading fast and having skipped the last posts, think that the power of your system raised by 4dB when using the Typhon , while you are addressing your subjective perception of sound level.
I don't have a problem believing Steve's 4dB claim - my own system's dynamic range (at the same listening preamp position) has gone up about 10dB over the last 2-3 years with the exact same electronics but completely different MIT and Shunyata cables plus some noise filtering; the result is pretty staggering with wind instruments; e.g. I am currently listening to For Your Ears Only http://www.amazon.com/For-Your-Ears-Only-Proteus/dp/B000007SAO and the trumpets scream with life. It is likely the Typhons also remove high-frequency grunge which would otherwise suck life out of the amps trying to amplify it - that's a pretty common result...
Slightly more than 1.5x, and this is what is weird and should be easily measurable electrically as well as acoustically. Either way, I'm very surprised we haven't seen this mentioned in magazine reviews or advertising?
It is not subjective. Since his poweramp receives the exact same input signal / voltage in both setups, inserting the Typhon increases (measurably / objectively), the gain of his poweramp by 4db. What baffles me is this if such dramatic differences in gains are really experienced strictly as s result of "quality of power", why have we never read about this anywhere in the trade-press / scientific literature / marketing collateral. Equipment manufacturers should be all over this pointing this out. Not questioning Steve's measurement by the way - just slightly baffled.
I am baffled as well
Now here is something I didn't mention
It was my memory that in order to restore the volume to the level we heard prior to unplugging the Typhons, the gain control had to be raised 3 clicks (from 10-13)
When I spoke to Marty yesterday he thought it was either 2 or 3 clicks of increase gain
I measured the increase in SPL with a 3 click increase and this measured 5-6 Db of gain. The 4 Db of gain on which I reported was for a 2 click increase in gain. However it could have been as much as 5-6
Heck I am questioning what I heard because I can't explain it
I did have a long talk yesterday with Caelin regarding our results. Hopefully he will chime in. He did tell me that the 2 huge NIC's (noise isolation chambers) were unique in that they have no inductance and no capacitance (I hope that I quoted him correctly)
I'll do the experiment in my system this afternoon. Stay tuned.
Just for kicks, have you tried tacking the typhon out of the front end component circuit as well, and did you get similar results?
I am interested that Peter (ack) has commented that he has achieved 10DB of gain by using different cables
indeed we did
Initially we listened to the system with all 3 Typhons attached (one into the Triton for front end components and the 2 that are in the AC duplex of each amp. Our comfort listening level was 10. We then disconnected the 2 Typhons that were being used for the amps and in order to restore the volume to where we were before the gain control had to be raised to either 12 or 13 ( a difference of 4-6 Db).
Then we plugged these 2 Typhons back in and disconnected the Typhon that was plugged into the Triton.
Same result. We had to increase the gain control 2-3 clicks to restore the listening level
I have no explanation.
Notice, i said dynamic range, i.e louder peaks, not necessarily louder level overall...and that's what's more important.
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So taking all three typhons out at the same time, should get you a dip of much more than 4db...
Steve,
2-3 dB changes of subjective preferred level when you change amplifiers and sources is usual an has been referred by people such as Ralph Karsten of Atmasphere and was often referred in the tube versus SS debates. However a change of 10 dB means that someone listening typically at 90 dB is now listening at 80 dB. Such change can not be immediate and due only to cables, unless the old power cables were particularly incompatible with system. A dealer I trust told me that a client of him, owning a complete AV system of a famous brand asked him to rewire all the power cables of his system with a well known power cable, all lengths custom made with expensive plugs and connectors. After installing all the cables the system become edgy, hard, no dynamics and impossible to listen. As it was a very good client, noblesse oblige, and he had to take all the cables back. I hope that Peter will give us more details on this point.
I have often said that a mismatched cable can do more bad than the more good of a well matched cable.
Steve, will you measure the SPL? I would be surprised if the actual SPL is higher with the Shunyata gear in the system.
Sorry. I must have not read back far enough in the thread. I will check it out.
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