I must say that neither I or Marty could explain what we heard but there was no question that the gain was increased 4-6 Db with the Typhons in the system
Doctor's Orders-Part Two-The New Listening Room Of Steve Williams
- Thread starter Steve williams
- Start date
Obviously highly distorted music at 80db can be unlistenable, and perfectly fine on a good system. Different issue. This is about differences in measurable db level in the room at a given volume level setting of the preamp.
Steve,
Technical oriented people definition of gain is incompatible with your free use of the word. Gain means Vout/Vin - this does mean just the opposite you are writing. When you used the Typhons you used a lower gain setting. Am I correct?
Of course - to offset the gain increase resulting from inserting the Typhon....
Yes, but in is this case it is "perceptive gain" something that can not be measured with instruments. You need to carry experiments with people to establish it.
The one other thing that I will try to measure over the weekend is what changes are audible when all 3 Typhons are removed from the system
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
It is totally plausible because when I inserted an all Transparent system, my gain was attenuated by 3-4dB!
Different scenario. You insert a filter into the signal path.
The typhon must somehow result in higher output voltage on the poweramp for the same input voltage, be reducing a bottleneck in power delivery to the amp.
Bruce,
Can you define "my gain"? My system is wired with Transparent Opus MM2. As I have recently ordered some Mogami gold, I just rewired the left channel of my system with Mogami, replaced the left speaker cable with an ultra low resistivity van den Hul Supernova and using a 1000 Hz test track at -40dB checked the gain of my system in both channels - exactly the same within .1 dB!
Sorry, but IMHO this is physically impossible in any decent power amplifier. If the amplifier gain would depend significantly on the supply voltage you would be listening to your mains, not to music! It is why power supply rejection ratio should be very high in power amplifiers.
The filter action of the networks of OPUS or MIT cables starts above the hundred of kilohertz zone - it has no measurable action in the audio band.
so Francisco are you implying my measurements are wrong and that what Marty and I heard was a figment of our imagination
so Francisco are you implying my measurements are wrong and that what Marty and I heard was a figment of our imagination
No Steve. Your experiment was correct, I believe it was not your imagination, you did the measurement of sound levels correctly, but IMHO are using dangerous words to explain a known effect that are smearing confusion around the debate.
IMHO the unusual aspect of your experiment and report is that differences in perceived sound level were due to power cables, not electronics or signal cables. It was very nice to read such a quantification.
Whether there is a sizable (4dB?) increase in power output at all frequencies for the same preamp gain should be easily measurable with test tones. But whether you actually heard increase in dynamic headroom - which you can also measure, but this time playing music - is another thing, and I have a feeling this is what your testing will show.
There are several members here at WBF who use a Typhon(s) in their systems. If any are reading this perhaps you can carry out this very simple experiment if you have an SPL Meter and report back. I still can't explain why I found what we did
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