Doctor's Orders-Part Two-The New Listening Room Of Steve Williams

[Steve Williams]

The Ultra line is in the stratosphere and appears to be priced almost commensurate with Odin

The Signature line is fabulous and seems to be half the cost of the Ultra.

I have no experience with the Purple or reference lines

 

[ack]

I also read their Technology section; helical Litz teflon-insulated ultra-pure copper. It seems to be this has already been done?!??! Great execution for sure, but is it unique?

 

[Steve Williams]

I can tell you that it in all likelihood this has not been done before.

I am at a loss of words as to how this small loom has transformed my system.

 

[ack]

I believe what you heard, but I am wondering if this says more about the Valhalla and other cables you have, rather than the cables you tested. Teflon has been done many times before, Litz the same, very pure copper and even single-crystal many many times; maybe I have not seen the helical construction in signal cables, but for example, the Shunyata power cords I use at least are definitely utilizing a hyper-helical construction. They must have taken execution to the max, but personally, I did not read anything "new" into any of their wording. And most certainly, there is no mention of phase issues related to RLC characteristics of the signal cables and how they address those.

 

[Steve Williams]

Tasos

I wish I could tell you but this is something that you have to hear. I believe for sure the other cables were limiting. The point is there is nothing limiting about these cables


I don't have a clue about the cable production but based on its use with CERN LHC I know they must have done something better

 

[JackD201]

Leif lives less than an hour from me and was nice enough to come by 2 days ago. He had a long listen to my system with the Nordost Valhalla speaker cables

Leif brought 3 sets of cables

1. A pair of Ultra power cords which I used one for each amp

2. A pair of Ultra speaker cables

3. A pair of Signature interconnect from my Playback Designs to my preamp

What Did We Hear?

I wasn't prepared for what I heard as I had made a promise to myself that I was not going to descend into the rabbit hole of audio cables but here I was

I hate to be histrionic but it was like listening to a totally different sound system. There was so much detail especially at the top and bottom end. In fact I have never heard so much top and bottom detail in my system ever.I was hearing things I have never heard, There is absolutely no filters or devices on theses cables. The makers think cable directionality is bogus and they will never put anything in the signal path that will distort or color it. What goes in comes out. I was flummoxed as to what I heard. In fact initially while listening to the analog side of my system I had to turn the gain control 2-3 clicks on my preamp as what we heard was so much louder than when we listened with my cables

Now here's the real kicker. When we switched to digital to make use of the 1 meter Signature interconnect I found that my previous cable must have been severely restricted because with the new cable honest to goodness I had to turn my gain control down 9-10 clicks as there was so much more to hear.

I will have more to say about these cables over the next few days before I have to return them

To Jack and Jim, this Master Built cable is truly a well kept secret. I have never heard my speakers sound as good. There is absolutely no coloration. What goes in comes out. The cable makers state that their cables are absolutely neutral and I believe that

For those interested in this master Built cable it is a fascinating story as to how these cables that are made by aero space engineers and are used in the CERN Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland, These cables come in 4 levels
Purple
Reference
Signature
Ultra

Needless to say I am shocked at these cables. They are extremely well built but what they do to my system is so extra ordinary that I can say that I am going to do a complete cable loom switch to my system

I found the MB website for those interested. To Jack and Jim. I hope you don't mind my revealing your second best kept secret

www.masterbuiltaudio.com

Cat's out of the bag. It's okay Steve, I already have mine so I won't be suffering from being at the back of a line. LOL! Same is true for the rest of the secretive guys here at WBF like violetmachan, mountainjoe and Jim.

 

[Leif S]

Hello all,

I was taking a quick break at work and saw these post. I really want to respond to these but I need to do it later today

 

[adyc]

Tasos

I wish I could tell you but this is something that you have to hear. I believe for sure the other cables were limiting. The point is there is nothing limiting about these cables


I don't have a clue about the cable production but based on its use with CERN LHC I know they must have done something better

Don't take it as discrediting to Mastercable. I love to hear them in my system. CERN uses so much cable to produce strong magnetic field that I'm sure CERN doesn't use ultra lines. Otherwise European governments will not be very happy.

 

[microstrip]

(...) I don't have a clue about the cable production but based on its use with CERN LHC I know they must have done something better

Although I have great respect for cable manufacturers and their contribution to the sound quality of our systems, the use of the name of CERN suggesting any mysterious effect in audio cables is abusive. It is not unique - marketing departments love the use of strong names in their advertisement.

You can find details about the CERN LHC superconductors here. http://lhc-machine-outreach.web.cern.ch/lhc-machine-outreach/components/cable.htm and http://www.lhc-closer.es/taking_a_closer_look_at_lhc/0.superconducting_cables.

The only relevant parameter for audio cables is how they sound - all else is marketing. Some times a cable based on techniques used for Boeing, Nasa, CERN or medical purposes sounds good - and is adopted by manufacturers.

And yes, if someday I have the opportunity to listen to these Ultra cables I will do it with great pleasure but at around 295 ºK (72ºF), not at their usual operating point at CERN of 1.9ºK (-495 ºF) !

 

[mullard88]

On post #1595, those tubes are truly amazingly magical. I believe I have eight of those in my Audio Research SP3.

 

[Steve Williams]

I agree Sam. I've had my previous pair for 8-9 years. I also have a matched quad set of ECC 801S in my Doshi tape pre

 

[fas42]

Needless to say I am shocked at these cables. They are extremely well built but what they do to my system is so extra ordinary that I can say that I am going to do a complete cable loom switch to my system

I found the MB website for those interested. To Jack and Jim. I hope you don't mind my revealing your second best kept secret

:b ... it's all part of the 'plot' that means that no matter how good one thinks one's system is at the moment, that it can always get better. Just by "discovering" where there's a bottleneck, and sorting it ... .

 

[Steve Williams]

:b ... it's all part of the 'plot' that means that no matter how good one thinks one's system is at the moment, that it can always get better. Just by "discovering" where there's a bottleneck, and sorting it ... .

That's a very good point because in situations such as this I always ask myself " Is this something better or merely something different? If better, how so"

This for me hopefully minimizes any lateral rather than upward moves and this is truly an upward move

 

[ack]

Tasos

I wish I could tell you but this is something that you have to hear. I believe for sure the other cables were limiting. The point is there is nothing limiting about these cables


I don't have a clue about the cable production but based on its use with CERN LHC I know they must have done something better

I can believe they are not limiting vis a vis the Valhalla, but, are there other cables like that? As I said, all of what they claim to do appears to have been done before - like e.g. Acrolink comes to mind when talking about 6N & 7N copper. So the fact some version of the cables is used at the LHC simply says they probably have a lot of good attributes, but what does that say about audio? Well, nothing to me personally, until I see how the LHC cables are constructed and the needs they fill - are they same as audio? Anyway, I'll be watching this space for your own impressions when you do switch all around, because this is not a normal thread (for a wider discussion, perhaps a new thread isn't a bad idea?). But I remain utterly skeptical that there is anything groundbreaking here, other than perhaps execution of well-known designs to the max.

 

[Steve Williams]

I can believe they are not limiting vis a vis the Valhalla, but, are there other cables like that? As I said, all of what they claim to do appears to have been done before - like e.g. Acrolink comes to mind when talking about 6N & 7N copper. So the fact some version of the cables is used at the LHC simply says they probably have a lot of good attributes, but what does that say about audio? Well, nothing to me personally, until I see how the LHC cables are constructed and the needs they fill - are they same as audio? Anyway, I'll be watching this space for your own impressions when you do switch all around, because this is not a normal thread (for a wider discussion, perhaps a new thread isn't a bad idea?). But I remain utterly skeptical that there is anything groundbreaking here, other than perhaps execution of well-known designs to the max.

Tasos IMO you are splitting hairs. For me I don't care whether it is new design or old but rather the sound and what it achieves. You are discussing the wrong thing here.

I swore I would never descend the rabbit hole with cables again but for my ears the change in the amount of information at the top and bottom end was the big icing on the cake. The cake itself is how this cable will improve your sound from top to bottom

 

[fas42]

I just had a look at http://www.masterbuiltaudio.com/technology - most of what they're saying there makes a lot of sense, they're addressing issues which I noted from my earliest efforts at DIY'ing better connections between parts of a system. If the manufacturers take extra special effort in ensuring the best actual performance of their cables in the areas they mention, then use of these cables certainly will not harm a system's performance ...

 

[RBFC]

Steve,

How does the sound of the Masterbuilt cables compare to your current cables in the midrange? You mentioned the frequency extremes, but is there increased transparency, etc in the mids?

Lee

 

[Steve Williams]

As I said Lee the increase in detail across the entire spectrum is mind boggling compared to what I was using. The icing on the cake however was all the detail I have never heard at top and bottom end with the biggest change so far with the MB Signature Cable as an IC from my Playback designs to my preamp. I am anticipating similar changes when I get the BB cable from my Phono stage to my preamp

 

[kernelbob]

Hi folks,
First, some background on the evolution of my system's cabling. I auditioned and then purchased a full loom of MasterBuilt Audio Signature interconnects (balanced), biwire speaker cable, and power cords in 2011. I own the first set of the VSA VR100XS speaker system which uses the same drivers for bass and midrange as the VR111 but in a relatively more compact six foot tower with a wwmtmww array. My 100's were the first speakers to be internally wired with MasterBuilt Audio Ultra cabling (more on that story to come). I purchased a loom of Ultra interconnects and two sets of speaker cables (for my now biamplified system) a year ago. I've not yet auditioned the Ultra power cords.

I wanted to clarify a couple of points regarding the MB Ultra cabling. As for Ultra's composition, it's not simply "six nines" copper, but is an alloy of various metals as well as rare earth elements. The insulation is manufactured by MB in a vacuum to remove oxygen that otherwise interacts with the signal. The configuration and conformation of the cabling is designed to both shield the cabling from external sources and to avoid self interaction of the signal.

References to the engineering work of the MasterBuilt engineering team on projects such as CERN, deep space probes, and communication systems are relevant in that these require the managment and retrieval of information from very low signal levels even in the presence of high signal levels and to reject contamination from external energy sources. Translated to the audio experience, low level information of hall ambience and the subtle nuances of instrumental timbre needs to be present not only during quiet musical passages, but also during crescendos. This applies not only to recordings of full orchestra, but also small jazz ensembles, big band, rock, etc.

Even after having Ultra cabling and internal wiring in my system for a year (longer for the 100's), I'm still amazed how instruments and voices are presented in a palpably intact way and that even in complex passages, the individuality of each instrument is retained. You can hear in a Horowitz recording that the piano is his piano-- he required that it was shipped to each performance venue, even to Moscow. When I play recordings of solo piano, the individuality of each piano is more clearly conveyed that I've heard elsewhere. A visual analogy I like to use is that with an Ultra system there is a filigree of detail retained in both quiet and loud passages that is otherwise lost. It's that high resolution quality that, in my experience, sets Ultra technology apart. Once you hear that, it's hard to go back to a system without it.

Best,
Robert

 

[Steve Williams]

Once you hear that, it's hard to go back to a system without it.

thanks Robert because this is not subtle. The extra detail. much better bass than i've ever heard in my system, the attack, presence and decay are beyond anything I have ever heard in my system. You guys need to hear Jack's and Jim's to fully understand

Robert I have a pair of Ultra PC's on my amps and all I can do is shake my head

After hearing those two systems I left Manila convinced there was something magic about these MB cables. I lucked out as VSA is but an hour's drive from my house plus Leif is a member here and when I suggested an audition of the cables he was very receptive for the reasons I stated. Leif told me he likes the build of Wilson speakers and has great respect for Dave but at every show he has attended with Wilson they were always shown with Transparent tor MIT both networked cables and he has never heard a Wilson system he heard that he liked. It was a worthy challenge for the both of us