Doctor's Orders-Part Two-The New Listening Room Of Steve Williams

I used to be a disbeliever of the CMS but boy I was wrong. I started the journey by just trying the amp stand, then I had to get one for the turntable and now after seeing the full rack in this thread I am itching for the full rack for everything hmmm. My friend was also a disbeliever and ended up with the Maxxus. Dont ever try if your wallet is not prepared. Yes it is absurd money but well worth every cents imo. Oh and congrats to Steve :)
 
Reading the descriptions, it seems that you can still do further seismic isolation underneath the racks for further SQ improvements. A good thing they tackle the air-borne issues, it is rarely done.
 
Firstly, I’d like to thank Steve and Cathy for the gracious hospitality they extended to Joy and me. They are great people. I also wanted to say that I am not at all good at forum posting. I really never do it, so please excuse my poor writing skills.

Secondly, I wanted to fully concur with Steve when he said the sound was $hit when we first turned it on. The sound was absolutely hideous. I’ve wondered why this happens. I think this occurs because, when music plays, the listening room becomes an intense energy field in which everything is vibrating. Vibrating components reach an equilibrium point with the vibrating shelves and furniture they’re resting upon. This creates an electro-mechanical feedback loop. So, when we changed Steve’s racks from what they were to what they are, all of the equilibrium points started changing and as the CMS filters (shelves) were changing the equilibrium points, the speakers were changing the energy field until a new equilibrium point (a new electro-mechanical feedback loop) was established………..makes my hair hurt. It's kind of like "mechanical imprinting" (as far as I know, I just made up that term) where the component drags the last equilibrium point along with it for a bit and that equilibrium point gets expressed in some new way when placed on a new resting area. Anyway, that's my guess.

Thirdly, we are trying to accomplish a specific objective with our racks and filter systems. I think that we can all agree that there have been many great advances in all types of components. But, what bothered me was that the dialogue, the language, we were using to describe advancements through their sonic differences, was not changing. Advancements occurred but the conversation stayed the same. Why? To my thinking, this was because, the wall between the listener and the musicians, that can be defined to exist at the front edge of the loudspeakers, remained.

What I want as a listener is to be a part of the recorded acoustic. I want to experience the emotion and context of music in the most personal way. So, we tried to find a way to lower the noise floor to such a vanishing level (without messing with frequency response) that the division between the listener and the musicians at the loudspeakers fell away. Granted, there are a million things that go into making a great sound system and we are just a part of it, but racks and shelves generally limit the performance of components and when you start perfecting your foundation, you start thinking about what is possible in new ways. It was really gratifying to read that Steve was able to make a further step into his soundstage; to become more a part of it. I know this can't and won't happen on all recordings, but it should happen on many. This, I think is the new objective; the new language and the new way to describe the performance of a system; the degree to which the system removes “The Wall” and allows the listener to enter the musical event as it occurred, or was engineered to be heard.

I hope this makes sense. And, please do not read anything I have written to be critical of any manufacturer in any area of our great hobby. I come in peace.......we're just trying to make things better.
 
Firstly, I’d like to thank Steve and Cathy for the gracious hospitality they extended to Joy and me. They are great people. I also wanted to say that I am not at all good at forum posting. I really never do it, so please excuse my poor writing skills.

Secondly, I wanted to fully concur with Steve when he said the sound was $hit when we first turned it on. The sound was absolutely hideous. I’ve wondered why this happens. I think this occurs because, when music plays, the listening room becomes an intense energy field in which everything is vibrating. Vibrating components reach an equilibrium point with the vibrating shelves and furniture they’re resting upon. This creates an electro-mechanical feedback loop. So, when we changed Steve’s racks from what they were to what they are, all of the equilibrium points started changing and as the CMS filters (shelves) were changing the equilibrium points, the speakers were changing the energy field until a new equilibrium point (a new electro-mechanical feedback loop) was established………..makes my hair hurt. It's kind of like "mechanical imprinting" (as far as I know, I just made up that term) where the component drags the last equilibrium point along with it for a bit and that equilibrium point gets expressed in some new way when placed on a new resting area. Anyway, that's my guess.

Thirdly, we are trying to accomplish a specific objective with our racks and filter systems. I think that we can all agree that there have been many great advances in all types of components. But, what bothered me was that the dialogue, the language, we were using to describe advancements through their sonic differences, was not changing. Advancements occurred but the conversation stayed the same. Why? To my thinking, this was because, the wall between the listener and the musicians, that can be defined to exist at the front edge of the loudspeakers, remained.

What I want as a listener is to be a part of the recorded acoustic. I want to experience the emotion and context of music in the most personal way. So, we tried to find a way to lower the noise floor to such a vanishing level (without messing with frequency response) that the division between the listener and the musicians at the loudspeakers fell away. Granted, there are a million things that go into making a great sound system and we are just a part of it, but racks and shelves generally limit the performance of components and when you start perfecting your foundation, you start thinking about what is possible in new ways. It was really gratifying to read that Steve was able to make a further step into his soundstage; to become more a part of it. I know this can't and won't happen on all recordings, but it should happen on many. This, I think is the new objective; the new language and the new way to describe the performance of a system; the degree to which the system removes “The Wall” and allows the listener to enter the musical event as it occurred, or was engineered to be heard.

I hope this makes sense. And, please do not read anything I have written to be critical of any manufacturer in any area of our great hobby. I come in peace.......we're just trying to make things better.

Joe,

to me the concept of 'settling'; which describes what happens when gear/cables/anything gets moved around (or shipped) and then goes through the process of re-establishing it's new spot and calming down is a completely normal thing we see time and time again. and the more high resolution and sensitive the system and environment the greater the perceived effect. and it's multiplied by the warm-up of the gear to result in the 'harsh' sound on first turn on.

and your products might be more effected than most......or not...depending on what they do. all those different impedence levels no doubt require much more time to get aligned.

the rub, as always, is why this happens and the confusion that question causes to our objectivist brethren.
 
Hi Mike,

Seems spot on to me....... I scratch my head about the settling my stuff does. It seems to me that unlike "electrical related component settling" where you tend to start with a clear window in the midrange that opens upward and downward over time, my stuff sometimes appears to cause an oscillation in the soundstage.......tip upward brightly, and then go flat in the bass, on and on. This totally disappears with time, but the starting point and the degree of the swing is unpredictable. Weird!
 
Mike

You really need to get down here and have a listen. I have yet to read anything but positive reports on CMS. As Joe says he comes here in peace and with no disparagement to other manufacturers. Have you read the white paper Mike?

I agree about the settling tine but for my ears it was what came next and that was the extension of the sound stage forward in front of the plane of the speakers. This is what Joe refers to as making the listener part of the musical event. I never experienced that with other methods I've used. I'm certain even your objectivist brethren would easily hear the sonic changes.
 
The way you've arranged the source equipment beside your listening chair looks really tidy and secure. Enjoy and stay healthy.
 
The way you've arranged the source equipment beside your listening chair looks really tidy and secure. Enjoy and stay healthy.

See you in a few days:) I'm bringing lots of goodies lol
 
Joe,

to me the concept of 'settling'; which describes what happens when gear/cables/anything gets moved around (or shipped) and then goes through the process of re-establishing it's new spot and calming down is a completely normal thing we see time and time again. and the more high resolution and sensitive the system and environment the greater the perceived effect. and it's multiplied by the warm-up of the gear to result in the 'harsh' sound on first turn on.

and your products might be more effected than most......or not...depending on what they do. all those different impedence levels no doubt require much more time to get aligned.

the rub, as always, is why this happens and the confusion that question causes to our objectivist brethren.

I hope I'm not a stranger around here....Wow Steve...Ultimate comes to mind,very nice. First time I have seen the photos of your new place. I knew that you had moved down south though.

In my system, I get the best of both worlds...some recording have significant "punch" beyond the speaker plane and most emanate from behind. Excuse me.I'll have to look for the beginning of this subject conversation,but these comments caught my eye. Btw hi Mike...
 
Hi Roger

So nice to see you in our little neck of the woods. Mike's comments about re estsblishing is something I subscribe to. What was the icing on the cake was the constant change in the sound over the next 2-3 weeks. Joe's concept in rack design is IMO truly exceptional.
 
Steve,...your system and room are amazing. The Critical Mass Racks and platforms also look amazing! I have 2 friends that utilize them and they are technically and aesthetically impressive; other than the Ultra5s and UltraSS isolation feet you were already using, what other rack system did you evaluate (if any, HRS, etc...) and what was the key differentiator for CM over all others? You mention "break-in" for the rack on the order of 3-4 weeks; I've never run across this w.r.t. racks before. What in a constrained-layer dampened implementation leads to this? Thank you very much for the detail you've already included above and the pointer to the whitepaper; I learned a good deal on the subject and am grateful for all of it as I sit here also contemplating my next move in isolation/dissipation racks & platforms! If you are able to speak via phone, please let me know (PM).
 
See you in 10 days Leif.

You're a lucky man Sam. What speakers will you have in the system when Leif and Damon are there. I ( and I'm sure others here) am very interested whst if any sonic changes you hear when you add in the MB cable.
 
Hi Roger

So nice to see you in our little neck of the woods. Mike's comments about re estsblishing is something I subscribe to. What was the icing on the cake was the constant change in the sound over the next 2-3 weeks. Joe's concept in rack design is IMO truly exceptional.


Hi Steve,

I read the part of your wonderful thread where Joe talks about removing vibration from the audio system and the benefits of doing so. Joe has engineered or designed a way to increase the "weld" of the equipment to limit vibration which lowers the "noise floor" and also increases the "efficiency" of the system. The result is to recreate the actual performance in it's specific venue or as I like to say now you can hear what the mic hears.

The markers as I call them, is the imaging will take on a lifelike illusion and the listener will begin to be "cocooned" in the sound field created. The soundstage becomes on great recordings almost holographic.The "sweet spot" is transformed into a wall of sound. Of course that can be somewhat recording dependent. Also what I experience with my psycho acoustics undoubtedly has some effect on the level experienced.

I can say this level of "illusion" will usually take a system up to two weeks to settle in as Mike points out maybe longer. Also by increasing the system efficiency it will effect the volume level on the system as you experienced.

I really don't know why all this has such a dramatic effect on the dispersion fields produced by the speakers. The speakers I think become perfect air pumps as it seems that the signal becomes distortionless. This lack of overall distortion which includes "noise" and vibration that we have discovered enables the listener to enjoy the performance as it was actually recorded.

The illusion becomes really fun when you find yourself laughing,crying,clapping with approval and raising your hands as the crescendo reaches it's zenith. Yes you will even hear sound in back of your listening spot or overhead,be fearful of the dynamics,and excited that 'you are there".

My criteria for improving the system, does the change improve the size of the illusion,if it does then I think the noise or overall distortion of the system has been lowered. Bravo!

Anyway that's my little explanation of what a system is capable of....something to look forward to and it can always get better...Roger
 
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You mention "break-in" for the rack on the order of 3-4 weeks; I've never run across this w.r.t. racks before. What in a constrained-layer dampened implementation leads to this?


Hi SCAudiophile

Let’s assume for a moment that all devices designed to mitigate vibration settle over time. I would suggest that the differences between the devices are rate of change, degree of change and the ending point of the change (the final electro-mechanical equilibrium point).

I think that the rate of change and degree of change are related to the initial electro-mechanical balance point of the system, the amount of energy the system creates across its frequency bandwidth and the internal changes that occur within the filter systems our clients select as damping materials inside those systems deform over time. There is more deformation inside our filter systems as the price point increases, a concurrent increased reduction in noise floor and an attendant increase in time required to settle the components.

In Steve’s system, the electro-mechanical starting point was greatly “distant” from its ending point, the Wilson’s produced tremendous energy across a broad spectrum, and the filter systems were internally complex and the damping materials subject to substantial deformation, particularly under the source components. These factors, I think, drove the Steve’s experience. But, again, I think settling over time occurs with all such devices and the factors previously suggested determine our awareness of the process.
 
Hi SCAudiophile

Let’s assume for a moment that all devices designed to mitigate vibration settle over time. I would suggest that the differences between the devices are rate of change, degree of change and the ending point of the change (the final electro-mechanical equilibrium point).

I think that the rate of change and degree of change are related to the initial electro-mechanical balance point of the system, the amount of energy the system creates across its frequency bandwidth and the internal changes that occur within the filter systems our clients select as damping materials inside those systems deform over time. There is more deformation inside our filter systems as the price point increases, a concurrent increased reduction in noise floor and an attendant increase in time required to settle the components.

In Steve’s system, the electro-mechanical starting point was greatly “distant” from its ending point, the Wilson’s produced tremendous energy across a broad spectrum, and the filter systems were internally complex and the damping materials subject to substantial deformation, particularly under the source components. These factors, I think, drove the Steve’s experience. But, again, I think settling over time occurs with all such devices and the factors previously suggested determine our awareness of the process.

I appreciate the feedback and detail answer very much; given the principles behind Constrained Layer Dampening in the whitepaper and other sources and sheer materials science, it (now) makes more sense to me that these heterogenous systems (each platform, the rack, the sum of all the parts) would take time to reach some equivalent to 'steady state...'. Does the placement of substantially heavier components (a 90lb transport versus a 30-40lb one) and other related issues hasten the break-in for the racks themselves?

Steve: got your PM earlier, will definitely give you a call as soon as I can. Earlier timeslot fell thru due to work.
 
Congrats Steve! Looks terrific and I'm happy that you are pleased with the sonic effect. I've also been pleasantly surprised by the improvements with attention to vibration control. Enjoy in good health!
 

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