Documentary: Making a Murderer - Part Deux | October 19, 2018 - Netflix

[NorthStar]

If Kathleen Zellner can find the real murderer(s), not an easy task, with evidence to collaborate, and where Steven is completely innocent, as Brendan too; how can they still keep Brendan in jail for a crime he didn't commit? Was Brendan remotely connected to the real murderer(s)?
There has to be a section in the book of laws that says that when there is new evidence years and years later that proves the innocence of someone who has been in jail for 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 years, they must release the innocent person and compensate him/her for a life completely wasted, say one million dollars per each year of being incarcerated, all lawyers expenses paid?

Kathleen Zellner doesn't seem to worry much, her biggest challenge is time in due process.
Because Steve is her client.

Brendan would need new lawyers, someone like Kathleen. Who knows, maybe after Steven's release?

I agree with DSkip, there is still more to be unearthed.
_____

She dresses cool, she is driven around, she is comfy in her nice chair @ the office, she is elegant, she speaks elegant, she respects everyone, people respect her, she can interact with anyone/everyone as we saw in Season 2, she is simply a remarkable woman, a lady who inspires confidence and freedom.
With all her connections she is the complete package. ...The full justice deal.

I am very very confident that Steven will be released, 99.99999%, it's just a question of when and if his Mom and Dad will still be alive by then.

As for Brendan, everything will be connected to Steven's eventual release. And that is what will make the difference even after all his court appeals exhausted.
It remains to be seen and heard ... the dots missing in this very twisted case.

Wisconsin is not the place where everyone in the world like to hang around ...
Like you Steve, I wouldn't even drive passing through.

 

[Steve Williams]

As I see it, if and when KZ presents her case there will be objections to literally each piece of evidence that she presents to keep it out of the record.

Given a foothold and an understanding court in which to plead the case I believe not only will she prevail but she will single handedly wipe out the coffers of Manitowoc County as well as any personal insurance that these scum bags carry.

Then the civil suits that will be litigated will go on for years unless there is some huge settlement which is where I bet it will be headed.

One again does anyone know how KZ is compensated or is this all pro bono.

BTW, season 3 isn't yet a lock but hopefully for the good of every interested human in this case, the 2 producers (who BTW are women) must commit to a third season

I was interested in one of the later episodes in season 2 how much Steven's father hated to be in front of the camera and there was one scene with him outside a doorway looking into the room and said "get that God damn camera off me

AS to Bob's comment about his parents being alive to see him get out could be a stretch as they are both in their 80's. It was sobering to hear his father say out loud that his only hope was that they would "live to see the day Steve gets out of prison"

Reading a brief bio of KZ she has gotten 19 people out of prison who were wrongfully convicted

I also thought that Brendan's lawyers were also excellent but they knew they couldn't plead the case before the Supreme Court and they hired the former Solicitor General of the United States to plead the case. Sadly the Supreme Court refused to hear the case so this poor 28-29 yo kid who had his conviction overturned not once but twice only to have it overturned by the en banc panel of the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals will remain in jail for at least the next 20 years before any chance of parole

God bless America. This is truly one of the most horrific things I have ever read about the justice system in America

 

[NorthStar]

'The Staircase' was pretty horrific too as it affected the entire family and community.
'Making a Murderer' goes beyond; it affects an entire world.

Those are extreme cases of gross injustice and corruption.

Kathleen said it in the documentary; when Steven is released she's going with the full legal system after those scums like Ken Kratz and all the gang.

How she gets paid? Is Netflix making enough money with this documentary to pay her?
When she wins a case and sets someone innocent free, are there big money settlements made so that a lot of people aren't falling from the justice system?

She said in another article: "I make more money than 99.99 percent of all lawyers while pursuing that noble cause." - K.Z. (Vulture / True Crime - Oct.19, 2018)

 

[Steve Williams]

Very interesting

Certainly I considered Netflix as a possible source of money however I wonder if the producers of the show compensate the Avery family. Unlikely as at the end they were quite penniless

I think it would be unlikely the source of the money comes from Netflix as they in essence would be paying for the defense.

As for her being wealthier than most lawyers tells nothing as she could be wealthy to start. Yet I do believe her 19 cases have made her a very wealthy woman. Have you seen the rings on her left hand that change. Plus her forensic team aren’t inexpensive either. Having said this however the notoriety that KZ and her forensic team will get from this documentary will be ginormous. It’s called free advertising and what better way than through this documentary. She herself said “you don’t want to hire me if you’re guilty because I’ll find out” So perhaps her wealth does come from the civil suits that follow.

As for The Staircase it too was good but not like this.

The Staircase was about getting (almost certainly) a guilty person out of jail based on reasonable doubt whereas Making a Murderer is all about habeas corpus and getting a wrongfully convicted man out of jail

 

[NorthStar]

Steven Avery was suing for $36 million prior to the murder of Teresa Halbach.
If Kathleen sent him free, and she will because Steven is innocent, how much money down the road is waiting for her to put in her two suitcases and ride in the back of her car with her ring and latest iPhone?

You've said it; she won big cases in the past and there were big money settlements for the people who spent many years in jail and who were innocent. I'm sure the people she saved they were grateful to her, and not just emotionally.

She studied @ the Concordia University in Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
• https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...making-a-murderer-part-2-lawyer-a8587796.html

Pro-bono work, her greatest extravagance (#13):
• https://litigationcommentary.org/interviews/759-interview-kathleen-zellner

 

[NorthStar]

"Zellner has been an attorney for more than 26 years in the Chicago area. Newsweek says she has “secured the exoneration of 17 men and won almost $90 million from wrongful conviction and medical malpractice lawsuits.” The news magazine said she helped free four men convicted in the murder of a Chicago medical student. She also once got a killer to confess on the witness stand, freeing another man off death row."
_____

She won almost $90 million from wrongful convictions and medical malpractice lawsuits.
That's how she makes her money; she gets her fair share because without her there would be zero dollars. Pro-bono, she just loves it!

?Good read:
https://heavy.com/entertainment/2018/10/kathleen-zellner-steven-avery-lawyer-attorney/

"She secured five multi-million dollar verdicts in a single year.

Kathleen Zellner. (Getty)

She declined to tell the reporters how much she earns. She made an analogy between trial work and race car driving, Law Crossing.com says."

If I was her I would the same; it's nobody's business how much I earn.
That's my private life.

 

[NorthStar]

? http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/making...thleen-zellner-now-updates-steven-avery-case/

I follow her every footsteps all the way; I am right there with the latest news even before they are released. Like Kathleen said, it's only the beginning. ...Of the unraveling/bewildering/reckoning.

 

[NorthStar]

On SCREENRANT today there is a different view (article) on MaMS2:

Making A Murderer Season 2 Was A Mistake For Netflix & Steven Avery

I don't agree with it but you can read it and see what you think of it yourself.
Some of you might not put too much value in this Netflix documentary and I respect that.
But me I put high value on this doc because it's the society that we created and in which we all live in and where two innocent people are incarcerated for life because we allow corruption and blindness to lead us from the highest top people of our judicial system.

If we cannot resolve this, if the smartest people in our country cannot resolve this, then what else can we not resolve? This is the justice court system I'm talking about here, don't get any wrong idea. ...Money.

* Just Google it, the main title above and it will lead you exactly where a differing view is.
Everyone is entitled to his view, in particular when the people are smart people, with a good head on their shoulder, a brain with a good IQ level of intelligence.

 

[Steve Williams]

of course there are differences of opinion Bob.That's life so you need to maintain some equanimity.

Hopefully there will be a Season 3.I believe she can get him out

 

[NorthStar]

Same here Steve. She said in the documentary there's no better satisfaction than seeing someone wrongly convicted walking free. We need more people like her.

 

[NorthStar]

6 big questions we still have after binge-watching Making a Murderer Part 2
Here's hoping these are picked up in Part 3...

To find out what these 6 big questions are you're going to need a web browser; it's on Digital Spy.
And indeed they are key questions and obviously some people won't answer them because they are hiding the truth and there's no way that they are going to be good people, no way, not in a case like this with so many twisted characters.
These people are simply not from the same planet where I come from; they live in another space, another galaxy faraway from this beautiful blue planet.

 

[NorthStar]

"There is evidence that Andrew Colborn and Ken Kratz misled the world on the license plate call.
Also, Kevin Rahmlow never told Officer Ryan about RAV 4 on 11/4/2005"

 

[Swede]

Am new here but am riveted by the Avery case. Haven't watched all of Season 2 yet but believe Steve has been set up ("Just because we KNOW he's guilty and want to make sure gets convicted."). I do have a problem. If Teresa's blood in the back of the Rav4 (on the door) was planted (and not from her body being thrown in) then --- Where did her blood com from?

Her body was cremated after she was murdered which would have destroyed all her blood. Where would someone get her blood to plant days later?

 

[NorthStar]

Welcome,

First you have a good reason to be riveted. And yes, Steve and Brendan have been setup, 100%
And if Steve was guilty he wouldn't have Kathleen Zellner working for/with him.

Teresa's blood in her Toyota SUV?

"Teresa left the property after photographing the car. Somebody from the family, likely not Steve or Brendan, saw her leave and flagged her down -- or did something to cause her to stop. They raped her and beat the shit out of her. They put her body, maybe alive or maybe dead, in the back of her car -- causing the blood in the back of her car. They drove back to the property with her body and put the car in the spot. They carried the body over to the burn barrel to cremate along with her belongings. She was possibly still alive, so they shot her to finish her off. They cremate her down by the quarry and bring the remains back up to Steve's firepit to frame him. They scatter the remains and put the burn barrel off to the side. If they shot her while she was still in the burn barrel, the bullet would've likely stayed in the barrel. I understand her DNA would have been destroyed, but I'm sure the lab could work something out if they're planning on finding evidence. I don't think the person that killed her had the original intentions of committing the crime to frame Steve, but the idea probably came to light when working on destroying the body. I think once the cops find the car on the property, the probably realized that this was their opportunity to bring Steve down. Since they didn't have any DNA or evidence that Steve actually did it, they put a little of his blood on the car and problem solved. As for the key, that's a valet key. Whoever moved the car from the crime scene back to the property didn't want their DNA on the keys, so they ditched them somewhere. Probably on the bottom of that pond where they found the car. Most cars have a valet key in the glove box, desperate for evidence, the cops take that key and put Steve's DNA on it."

 

[NorthStar]

And this too:

» "An expert also confirmed a theory put forth in the first season: the RAV4 key found in Avery's trailer should have had Halbach's DNA on it, even if Avery had handled it. Zellner's claim: if only Avery's DNA was on the key, the key was scrubbed and the DNA planted."

 

[NorthStar]

The last two-three episodes of Season 2 are among the best, revelatory.
So hang it there. And I can see a Season 3 coming up eventually.
This case is not over yet, and more particularly since November 6.
The players are going to be exposed.

 

[Swede]

Welcome,

First you have a good reason to be riveted. And yes, Steve and Brendan have been setup, 100%
And if Steve was guilty he wouldn't have Kathleen Zellner working for/with him.

Teresa's blood in her Toyota SUV?

"Teresa left the property after photographing the car. Somebody from the family, likely not Steve or Brendan, saw her leave and flagged her down -- or did something to cause her to stop. They raped her and beat the shit out of her. They put her body, maybe alive or maybe dead, in the back of her car -- causing the blood in the back of her car.

I think you missed my point. Zellner's blood experts said the blood on the door could NOT have come from Teresa's body being thrown in the car and must have been planted. If planted, there where did the "planter(s)" get her blood from? Her body was supposedly cremated which would have destroyed all her blood.

 

[NorthStar]

But before she was "cremated" she was killed and someone had her blood.
That access to her blood before her body disappeared is what was planted by the conspirators.
Me I think the cops know the real killers and they worked with them in planting all that fake evidence. For $36 million, to save their town from Steve's lawsuit, and their reputation, their jobs.

How many more episodes do you still have to watch?

 

[Swede]

But before she was "cremated" she was killed and someone had her blood.
That access to her blood before her body disappeared is what was planted by the conspirators.

I find it incredible that ANYONE would have the foresight to drain and save her blood before disposing of her body. It implies a criminal intelligence well beyond common experience. Certainly far more than any displayed by anyone in the cases so far.

Me I think the cops know the real killers and they worked with them in planting all that fake evidence. For $36 million, to save their town from Steve's lawsuit, and their reputation, their jobs.

I don't believe they know who the real killers are. i do believe they settled on Avery and stopped looking because it was subconsciously in their interest. And then some went about planting evidence so "We'll make SURE he won't get away with it THIIS time." Just like the bloody glove in OJ's trial. (Except I believe OJ was guilty.)

How many more episodes do you still have to watch?

4 or 5.

 

[Steve Williams]

4 or 5.

The best is yet to come. IMO the last 3 episodes are the best as you shake your head and ask how could something like this happen to Steve Avery or Brandon Dassey