This thread and what I see as increased scrutiny about cordiality. I had a long discussion on the phone about it a couple of days ago Ron. I just didn't call it "weird" over the phone. With your recent question asking if the thread should be shut down, I think it is getting weird. I don't see the reason for the question, nor do some others. As soon as you raise it as a possibility, then you are soliciting responses, and people voice their opinions. Some want it shut, others do not. Either way, on what legitimate basis would it be considered? The owner requesting it? I never heard of that before. I suppose so, but if he hasn't requested it, why suggest it? I find that weird, no really weird.
Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
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This thread and what I see as increased scrutiny about cordiality. I had a long discussion on the phone about it a couple of days ago Ron. I just didn't call it "weird" over the phone. With your recent question asking if the thread should be shut down, I think it is getting weird. I don't see the reason for the question, nor do some others. As soon as you raise it as a possibility, then you are soliciting responses, and people voice their opinions. Some want it shut, others do not. Either way, on what legitimate basis would it be considered? The owner requesting it? I never heard of that before. I suppose so, but if he hasn't requested it, why suggest it? I find that weird, no really weird.
Peter,
I truly don't understand what you're talking about here. I didn't suggest closing this thread.
Please see Post #204 and Post #212, both written by nc42acc, who started the thread. He asked if the thread could be closed, and he indicated that he wanted it closed.
I don't think there's anything else to discuss on the topic of this thread, but, as you see, the moderators have not closed this thread.
Yes, I got that then, and I get it now Ron. nc42acc initiated it. You suggest the possibility without shutting the idea down immediately. My questions remains unanswered. On what basis would you shut it down? What rules have been violated. You seem to not want to respond to these questions. If you are not entertaining the possibility of deleting or closing the thread you should state that. If you are considering it as a possibility, then you should explain on what grounds. Is a simple request from the original poster enough, or does it require deliberation on the part of the moderators?
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Good for youI meant this sarcastic christoph , come on .
I can buy a pair of XVX s monday when the shop is open , johnny cash .
Money aint a problem.
I can also most certainly buy the best low powered flee amp / DIY horn possible if it floated my boat , but it doesnt
Christoph my approach has always been to get good sound for as little money as possible .
The dutch approach
, thats why im also completely against expensive cables.
It would completely ruin my approach / philosphy / business model / budget.
Im basically in the budget cone camp
The dutch approach
, thats why im also completely against expensive cables.It would completely ruin my approach / philosphy / business model / budget.
Im basically in the budget cone camp
So 5.1 surround sound VoX Olympians are no problem for you thenI meant this sarcastic christoph , come on .
I can buy a pair of XVX s monday when the shop is open , johnny cash .
Money aint a problem.
I can also most certainly buy the best low powered flee amp / DIY horn possible if it floated my boat , but it doesnt
That would be out of my budget , but a stereopair certainly no problems .So 5.1 surround sound VoX Olympians are no problem for you then
I just imagine Tiesto on the Vox olympian ,...... hmm no thank you
No knee-jerk here, just calling a spade a spade. I have no problem disintermediating my own views from what I read. Perhaps the first four paragraphs had historical relevance. By then he was chomping at the bit. It is essentially a prerequisite to being hired at many small state university satellite campuses - stones in the field of the rural landscape.
I mostly don't agree. I'm a member of a plethora of FB audio groups from vintage to DIY to Audiophiles without a Budget and they all have one thing in common - the pursuit of higher quality music reproduction. By far the majority of posts are respectful, many inquisitive, many informative and most importantly enjoyable. If that's the state of the audiophile community along with amazing quality components at reasonable prices (say < 5K for a system) to uber systems both capitalizing on incredible advances in material science, manufacturing technology + global awareness via the internet bolstered by audio shows around the globe, I think we're doing just fine. That, coupled with the availability of millions of tunes (new and old) for pennies via streaming and re - releases on digital and analog count me in!
BTW, our little FB group: Supreme Sound and Music | Facebook
Check it out!
BTW, our little FB group: Supreme Sound and Music | Facebook
Check it out!
I understand, now. Thank you.
I would defer to Steve to understand past precedents, if any, when a threat originator requests that a thread be closed.
My present understanding is that unless a thread violates the Terms of Service there is no formal basis upon which to close a thread. I am not, at this moment, aware of any rules governing the closing of a thread outside of the Terms of Service.
Informally, and this is merely my off-the-cuff personal opinion, if the originator of a thread decides, for whatever reason, that a thread is ill-advised and requests that we close it, I guess we would make an ad hoc decision based on those particular facts and circumstances.
Peter, would you suggest that someone who originates a thread should have no ability to request that it be closed if, for whatever reason, he subsequently finds the thread to be ill advised?
Do you think we should insist on keeping open a thread that an originator asks us, for whatever reason, to close?
If I remember correctly Steve deleted, at your request, dozens of posts on your system thread which you found to be off-topic or distracting. None of those posts violated the Terms of Service. We were happy to oblige your request because it was about your system thread.
Do you think there should be formal rules regarding the ability of a originator of a system thread to delete posts on that thread?
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@KeithR and those who pressed like. I was just going to let it pass by but here it is again. I am not the kind of person who judges other people "poor taste" like you. Put me on your ignore list. Don't read my content. I sincerely don't remember exactly what I said. But I am sure I did not say it in a vulgar offensive manner. Certainly never used the word like "dick jokes."
Now. This is not addressing to the people I mentioned above.
The fact is many of us "regular" who enjoy coming to this forum to socialize have become familiar to one another and even become friend. I have made quite many friends in this forum. Talk to them on regular basis. And various times may have forgotten that this not my closed group chat room. Those jokes were to my friends who are comfortable with my non-two faced character. I misunderstood that this WBF is an open public social media just like HBO or Netflix that the whole world can choose which content you want to join or view. I think content like American comedy Kominsky Method or Sex in The City are just diversity for people to choose to view. My contents in this forum are nothing near these two world popular series with millions viewers. I am happy to be one of those million poor taste people.
Again I misunderstood that this WBF is similar in nature to other global commercial social media. Jokes should be more appropriate going-to-church like nature here. I wrote before I don't object intervention from moderators. Delete my content if they wish. This forum is owned by some people. It's their house. I respect their right to make their house rule. Their right to welcome or not welcome people visiting their house. And even their right to be judgemental on visitors taste. Everything we do or express here just reflect our character regardless the owners or visitors.
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Not ony is the forum owned by 'some people', those people claim ownership of all posted material. Anything we post is claimed by them as their property and under their copyright. I'm guessing (IANAL) they can do anything with or to their property that they choose to do to it, including destroying it or selling it or modifying it. End-users (content creators) may not re-use their own content without written consent of the owners.
cf. Copyright Infringement and Remedies
TERMS OF SERVICE - ALL MEMBERS TO READ BEFORE POSTING ANY CONTENT
WHATS BEST FORUM TERMS OF SERVICE Welcome to our forum! Our goal is to have a friendly place where everyone shares ideas and information without the level of bickering and angst that other forums tend to create. To that end, we have a set of rules that we would like to follow and be aware: 1...
www.whatsbestforum.com
Ron, this thread has taken quite some twists and turns. Now you are asking members for input about how you should run the forum. There are many other threads devoted to this topic. As I say, it’s getting pretty weird.
The rules have been set forth and you are enforcing them, seemingly with little regard about what the members think. You are the arbiter about what is “cordial“. And you seem to be hinting around the possibility of deleting content that does not violate the terms of service.
We have discussed a few times what I think is a distinction between general threads started by members and system threads which the author often views as a personal blog and record of the evolution of his system. In the case of my Natural Sound system thread, I made a formal request after some discussion with other members and you and Steve to have the administration delete some posts which I felt had nothing to do with the content of my system. I saw it as a form of editing, not moderation or censorship. Others can disagree with that designation. Regardless, you have indicated that this is an acceptable exception to your standard moderation practices.
I don’t know the precise history, but at some point someone changed the parameters by which a member can go back and edit his posts. When I first joined, there seemed to be an indefinite time frame. And then suddenly it was shortened to two or three days.
I think this happened around the time Myles Astor decided to resign from the forum. He attempted to delete all of his posts and threads. When the owners saw content disappear, they changed the policy about editing and deletion by the members. Ack abruptly resigned but his content is intact.
I would like to think that members have some sense of ownership over their content but that is not the case. Rules change after people become members and are obligated by the agreement they signed when becoming members.
I understand the WBF owners’ desire to own all content on the forum but if I had understood this more clearly at the beginning and foreseen that rules can change without prior notification or consent I would have thought twice about joining.
Prior to composing my system thread, I wrote all of the posts in essay form and have the photographs in my photo archives. I presume that I still own that original content and can do as I please with it. If I can not, please inform me now and I will no longer post any photos or add new details about my system on WBF.
I would like the ability to request the deletion of a thread I originated, but I realize that the request is unlikely to be granted. Threads are content and advertisers like continent. I consider system threads to be the best content on the forum.
I think the WBF owners should consider all requests from thread originators, but ultimately the owner should do whatever they want because they own the forum and all content. We have all agreed to the terms of service to become members.
And for your final question, Yes, I think there should be formal rules allowing for some latitude for the author of his own system thread to edit its content and keep it more focused at his option.
For Tang, his system thread, actually started by Bonzo, is anything goes and posters are encouraged to go wherever the chat takes them.
My system thread attempts to be a bit more focused in terms of content, so I made multiple requests to stay on topic. When those failed, I asked you and Steve for editing leeway.
Maybe some time for self reflection? Ironic thread title based on the 12 pages.
From the perspective of someone much,much younger than most here, I wholeheartedly agree with the headline of the article Marty posted. Breaking it down into more precise problems:
Traditional snobbery - I’ve seen huge amounts of online gatekeeping in the form of dismissal because components aren’t expensive enough, your room isn’t treated enough, didn’t do x right, etc. I’ve also experienced the same from dealers, with one dealer I do otherwise like dismissing me because I had Heresy’s at the time. They were a stop on my way to AG’s, but that’s all I could afford and fit in my apartment at the time. People will move up the quality spectrum as their earnings power increase.
Anti-snob snobbery - On the other end of the spectrum r/audiophile and many large audiophile Facebook groups are full of people who viciously call anyone out who spends money on components beyond 5k or so, with extra venom reserved for people who don’t fully treat their rooms to the standards of these folks, or have cables that are better than lampcord. I think many of the ASR camp fall into here because they’re DSP’d Class D amp has no distortion or something. I think it’s a cover for jealousy of what some can afford and they know that they can’t and want to bring others down for it.
Women in audio - This definitely happens. Look at the kind of comments Andrew Robinson’s wife Kristi gets all the time in the comments. She stays off camera for a reason when she used to be on. Jana, of EARSPACE felt the need to retreat from her YouTube account after a period of heavy vitriol. She was probably the best person with a camera in the audio game.
The industry also has a structural problem with getting young people to make the jump from HeadFi to HiFi. Dealers are often hard to find outside of urban areas, and when you do find them, many carry products that are aspirational at best to many young people. You need a few systems before you jump to Goldmund. When you do go to a dealer, there is a feel that they’re rushed for time with you, which I get that they gotta pay rent. But $500 is the same level of purchase decision to most young people as $10,000 is to many of you and the dealers’ customers. They need time to make that decision. That’s on top of the pressures of reduced disposable income in younger millennials and gen z and the fact that urban apartments are tiny.
I think to change for the better, the community has to do a better job of addressing younger audiences. Beginner products may need to be more available to hear. People like good sound when they hear it, but the first step is giving people the opportunity to be exposed to it.
Traditional snobbery - I’ve seen huge amounts of online gatekeeping in the form of dismissal because components aren’t expensive enough, your room isn’t treated enough, didn’t do x right, etc. I’ve also experienced the same from dealers, with one dealer I do otherwise like dismissing me because I had Heresy’s at the time. They were a stop on my way to AG’s, but that’s all I could afford and fit in my apartment at the time. People will move up the quality spectrum as their earnings power increase.
Anti-snob snobbery - On the other end of the spectrum r/audiophile and many large audiophile Facebook groups are full of people who viciously call anyone out who spends money on components beyond 5k or so, with extra venom reserved for people who don’t fully treat their rooms to the standards of these folks, or have cables that are better than lampcord. I think many of the ASR camp fall into here because they’re DSP’d Class D amp has no distortion or something. I think it’s a cover for jealousy of what some can afford and they know that they can’t and want to bring others down for it.
Women in audio - This definitely happens. Look at the kind of comments Andrew Robinson’s wife Kristi gets all the time in the comments. She stays off camera for a reason when she used to be on. Jana, of EARSPACE felt the need to retreat from her YouTube account after a period of heavy vitriol. She was probably the best person with a camera in the audio game.
The industry also has a structural problem with getting young people to make the jump from HeadFi to HiFi. Dealers are often hard to find outside of urban areas, and when you do find them, many carry products that are aspirational at best to many young people. You need a few systems before you jump to Goldmund. When you do go to a dealer, there is a feel that they’re rushed for time with you, which I get that they gotta pay rent. But $500 is the same level of purchase decision to most young people as $10,000 is to many of you and the dealers’ customers. They need time to make that decision. That’s on top of the pressures of reduced disposable income in younger millennials and gen z and the fact that urban apartments are tiny.
I think to change for the better, the community has to do a better job of addressing younger audiences. Beginner products may need to be more available to hear. People like good sound when they hear it, but the first step is giving people the opportunity to be exposed to it.
Welcome to WBF, EBITDAC!
Thank you very much for posting your thoughts and experiences here! It is important for us to hear and to understand the experiences, views and suggestions of younger audiophiles.
You write: "Beginner products may need to be more available to hear."
How do you think this should be accomplished?
Thank you very much for posting your thoughts and experiences here! It is important for us to hear and to understand the experiences, views and suggestions of younger audiophiles.
You write: "Beginner products may need to be more available to hear."
How do you think this should be accomplished?
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Tang, I don't have any ill will toward you or anyone here nor believe there are bad people. Its just a private vs public manner as you address. We read your thread for all the cool stuff you try and content you provide. Thank you.
Interesting you bring up the gaming industry as it's entirely moving the other direction.
1. The industry has gone from 10% women to almost half in just the past decade - you wouldn't be surprised if you know of the Animal Crossing game's recent popularity
2. Sexual harassment and gender discrimination has been *the* major industry story over the past 5 years - see Blizzard, Riot, and Ubisoft. The State of California has sued even, walk outs were staged, folks have been fired, and CEOs have stepped down. This has been on local LA news so may be more visible here.
3. As it was so common on Twitch, the gaming social media site, they have had to implement much more severe moderation policies https://www.twitch.tv/p/en/legal/transparency-report/ Many women report even having to resort to male avatars.
I dated a woman in the industry for 4 years - it was eye opening to see the change in E sports, indie gaming, etc. It's not like when I grew up playing Goldeneye with dudes and a few beers.
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