Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?

[the sound of Tao]

We have a problem? Who us??? Well possibly it could include…
A failure to genuinely value diversity of thought
Lack of respect for the values of others
Defaulting to ‘us and them’ kinds of generic polarisations that ensure conflict
Unnecessary anger and rage over small things
Seeing others all as one type to be simply lumped into some arbitrary group for the purposes of proving a point
Insistence on always being right and therefore others invariably then being wrong
Dividing and ranking people on what they own
Melodrama
Inflation and hubris
Arguing in a closed way without ever being open to any other perspective…
Some of this sounds a bit familiar… I’m thinking none of us are guilt free

It’s easy to see plenty of our problems and I don’t believe that our challenges are just one thing… and these also aren’t just particularly audiophile issues. Isolation and alienation, separation and fragmentation are a current cultural challenge. I don’t know, perhaps we have just gone too far in splitting and atomising everything and everyone and are at a point where we need to start to pull things back together and move into phases of reunification and in dissolving boundaries for us to recognise ourselves better as a connected group and reconnecting into some sense of the whole again.

 

[Ron Resnick]

We have a problem? Who us??? Well possibly it could include…
A failure to genuinely value diversity of thought
Lack of respect for the values of others
Defaulting to ‘us and them’ kinds of generic polarisations that ensure conflict
Unnecessary anger and rage over small things
Seeing others all as one type to be simply lumped into some arbitrary group for the purposes of proving a point
Insistence on always being right and therefore others invariably then being wrong
Dividing and ranking people on what they own
Melodrama
Inflation and hubris
Arguing in a closed way without ever being open to any other perspective…
Some of this sounds a bit familiar… I’m thinking none of us are guilt free

+1

 

[bonzo75]

I agree with many, many of the points in the posted article, including: The community has a history of pushing away female audiophiles;

I disagree, this statement assumes forums are reasons to be audiophiles, and women start as audiophiles, view the language on the forum and go away. Do they not share any other hobbies on forums where men fight? Have you been on a forum where both men and women use foul language (political forums, don't see women discouraged there, or on twitter)

Women are not in this hobby because of the nature of this hobby. They have interest in music but not on geeking over all the ancillaries that audiophiles feel make a difference.

 

[tima]

W.Jennings wrote

"My favorite comment online that I see with great frequency is perhaps the most condescending and it’s sadly the norm in 2021.

“I can’t help it if your hearing is not good enough to know the difference.”"

---

I challenge the hand wringers to quote something similar from, say 3, WBF posts. Note hearsay, real quotes.
.

 

[tima]

Women are not in this hobby because of the nature of this hobby. They have interest in music but not on geeking over all the ancillaries that audiophiles feel make a difference.

I think this a correct analysis. There has only been a small handful of women in the hobby and there is scant evidence that this is by anything but personal choice. Saying we need to change how we speak and act for the sake of some faux inclusivity is bollocks.

 

[bonzo75]

I think this a correct analysis. There has only been a small handful of women in the hobby and there is scant evidence that this is by anything but personal choice. Saying we need to change how we speak and act for the sake of some faux inclusivity is bollocks.

Exactly, otherwise you will also drive away the men who behave like kids, who form the base of this hobby

 

[tima]

Exactly, othereise you will also drive away the men who behave like kids, who form the base of this hobby

Maybe the gear is just a facade. The real hobby is acting like a child.

 

[bonzo75]

Maybe the gear is just a facade. The real hobby is acting like a child.

What people don't get is that forum is more like a playground. It is not like a corporate meeting room. So, in a playground, if you are running with the ball, no one says, "Excuse me, can you please make way so that I can get to the goal", nor do you say "My turn now, pass the ball please". Sure, you are not supposed to elbow or kick anyone either, but some form of tackling is allowed.

 

[tima]

What people don't get is that forum is more like a playground. It is not like a corporate meeting room. So, in a playground, if you are running with the ball, no one says, "Excuse me, can you please make way so that I can get to the goal", nor do you say "My turn now, pass the ball please". Sure, you are not supposed to elbow or kick anyone either, but some form of tackling is allowed.

Well okay, there's some truth there. A difference however from the modern playground is that in most corporate meetings and boardrooms you don't get a participation trophy.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Women are not in this hobby because of the nature of this hobby. They have interest in music but not on geeking over all the ancillaries that audiophiles feel make a difference.

For sure it’s not just that women and next gen find the endless dry audio debates a turn off… given the apparent ageing demographics there could be just a growing disconnect and no amount of groovying up the content is going to get hordes of under 50’s and crowds of women through our doors and into audio hifi shows and onto forums. But perhaps there is also a growing turn off for existing membership and something of a content exodus that comes out of the weariness of a conflict hungry and angry and competitive intelligentsia based vibe.

Our insistence that everyone debates to the end dry and supremely logical fallacies and always play out the syntactical and grammatical advantage or just be seen as simply uneducated and not up to scratch is something of a fun buster.

Sure the guys who love debate and are great at it are being enthralled. But are we at risk of becoming seen as just too serious and judgemental a niche and disconnected kind of clique. It’d be a shame because this is a fantastic pursuit if we just don’t drain the lifeblood out of it by just being… well twats. Said with love

 

[tima]

For sure it’s not just that women and next gen find the endless dry audio debates a turn off… given the apparent ageing demographics there could be just a growing disconnect and no amount of groovying up the content is going to get hordes of under 50’s and crowds of women through our doors and into audio hifi shows and onto forums. But perhaps there is also a growing turn off for existing membership and something of a content exodus that comes out of the weariness of a conflict hungry and angry and competitive intelligentsia based vibe.

Our insistence that everyone debates to the end dry and supremely logical fallacies and always play out the syntactical and grammatical advantage or just be seen as simply uneducated and not up to scratch is something of a fun buster.

Sure the guys who love debate and are great at it are being enthralled. But are we at risk of becoming seen as just too serious and judgemental a niche and disconnected kind of clique. It’d be a shame because this is a fantastic pursuit if we just don’t drain the lifeblood out of it by just being… well twats. Said with love

I thought you'd be at an orgy.

 

[bonzo75]

For sure it’s not just that women and next gen find the endless dry audio debates a turn off… given the apparent ageing demographics there could be just a growing disconnect and no amount of groovying up the content is going to get hordes of under 50’s and crowds of women through our doors and into audio hifi shows and onto forums. But perhaps there is also a growing turn off for existing membership and something of a content exodus that comes out of the weariness of a conflict hungry and angry and competitive intelligentsia based vibe.

Our insistence that everyone debates to the end dry and supremely logical fallacies and always play out the syntactical and grammatical advantage or be seen as simply uneducated and not up to scratch is something of a fun buster. Sure the guys who love debate and are great at it are being enthralled. But are we at risk of becoming seen as just too serious and judgemental a niche and disconnected kind of clique. It’d be a shame because this is a fantastic pursuit if we just don’t drain the lifeblood out of it by just being… well twats. Said with love

Endless debates happen on every political topic and subtopic, covid, sports, etc. There are a lot of jokes around family debates at Thanksgiving dinners and they are not about audio. That is how people are.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Endless debates happen on every political topic and subtopic, covid, sports, etc. There are a lot of jokes around family debates at Thanksgiving dinners and they are not about audio. That is how people are.

Debating with family is a right of passage… but with people on a forum, maybe that’s more a guilty pleasure

 

[the sound of Tao]

I thought you'd be at an orgy.

I try my best…

 

[PeterA]

For sure it’s not just that women and next gen find the endless dry audio debates a turn off… given the apparent ageing demographics there could be just a growing disconnect and no amount of groovying up the content is going to get hordes of under 50’s and crowds of women through our doors and into audio hifi shows and onto forums. But perhaps there is also a growing turn off for existing membership and something of a content exodus that comes out of the weariness of a conflict hungry and angry and competitive intelligentsia based vibe.

Our insistence that everyone debates to the end dry and supremely logical fallacies and always play out the syntactical and grammatical advantage or just be seen as simply uneducated and not up to scratch is something of a fun buster.

Sure the guys who love debate and are great at it are being enthralled. But are we at risk of becoming seen as just too serious and judgemental a niche and disconnected kind of clique. It’d be a shame because this is a fantastic pursuit if we just don’t drain the lifeblood out of it by just being… well twats. Said with love

Good post Graham. Fun busting seems to be on the increase and I wonder if it wouldn’t be a good time to take a bit of a break from the banter.

It is nice to have Tango and Rockitman back though. I miss the references to cat litter boxes and those big absorption thingies in room corners. Going from the free wheeling style of the old playground to the woke boardroom is a buzz killer.

It looks like the YouTube audio channels and comment sections of what people hear from system videos is where the action seems to be heading. From record stores, magazines, and dealerships to Audiogon and forums, to streaming, listening rooms and YouTube system videos, personalities, and comment sections, thing are changing.

I think I’ll spin some records on some old gear and put the phone down. It is that time of year for some port and a good warm fire with family and friends.

 

[Al M.]

Good post Graham. Fun busting seems to be on the increase and I wonder if it wouldn’t be a good time to take a bit of a break from the banter.

It is nice to have Tango and Rockitman back though. I miss the references to cat litter boxes and those big absorption thingies in room corners. Going from the free wheeling style of the old playground to the woke boardroom is a buzz killer.

"those big absorption thingies in room corners"

Aah, the Room Tampons.

Seriously, I don't think there is that much wokeness here.

 

[Ron Resnick]

There are a lot of jokes around family debates at Thanksgiving dinners and they are not about audio. That is how people are.

Our point is that our Terms of Service set a decorum and cordiality standard for WBF which is higher than the standard applicable to a drunk Boomer uncle at Thanksgiving.

 

[bonzo75]

Our point is that our Terms of Service set a decorum and cordiality standard for WBF which is higher than the standard applicable to a drunk Boomer uncle at Thanksgiving.

Maybe most of the members are those uncles

 

[morricab]

I disagree, this statement assumes forums are reasons to be audiophiles, and women start as audiophiles, view the language on the forum and go away. Do they not share any other hobbies on forums where men fight? Have you been on a forum where both men and women use foul language (political forums, don't see women discouraged there, or on twitter)

Women are not in this hobby because of the nature of this hobby. They have interest in music but not on geeking over all the ancillaries that audiophiles feel make a difference.

Its the same with my other hobby, poker...at any given tournament there will be <10% women present. They just don't seem to like the game, the environment around poker or both. Maybe it has to do with risk taking aversion as well. What it means is that poker forums are also male dominated and that is just the way it is. There is always talk of how to include more women in the game but if they aren't interested they aren't.

 

[bonzo75]

So you have two money losing hobbies?