Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?

[Rensselaer]

You’ve pointed to hobbies where the creation of something is the goal, not the gear itself.

Sorry jeffrey, but the gear itself is not the reason for my involvement in this hobby, it is simply a means to an end. Obtaining realistic reproduction of a musical event is why I engage. That being the case, I do depend upon members who are experts on the “gear”, like yourself, whenever I have technical questions.

 

[Al M.]

I was happy to find this qualifiaction at the end of that post:
The opinions and other information contained in the OED blog posts and comments do not necessarily reflect the opinions or positions of Oxford University Press.

I thought the guy's multiple attempts at acceptance of singular 'they' were weakened through his claiming that people use it in conversation when those who know better are not looking. Overall the post was more woke editorializing than history.

As I read it, the author made valid historical points that have nothing with wokeness. Not every argument that you or I don't like is 'woke' -- let's avoid knee-jerk reactions.

As I said before, I have a distaste for the term as well. I will concede that sporadically I may use it off-hand for quick convenience. However, when it came to the choice of replacing "he/she" in a crucial paragraph of an article of mine, I engaged in a time-consuming rewrite of the paragraph in its entirety, in order to not just get rid of "he/she", but also to avoid the dreaded alternative "they".

 

[Al M.]

Sorry jeffrey, but the gear itself is not the reason for my involvement in this hobby, it is simply a means to an end. Obtaining realistic reproduction of a musical event is why I engage. That being the case, I do depend upon members who are experts on the “gear”, like yourself, whenever I have technical questions.

There are different types of people in this hobby. Gearheads are common.

I personally tend to view the gear as means to an end as well. Yet for a time I was, for example, fascinated by the technical design of my DAC and by how it could be so good for such a cheap price. I still talk about it when the theme comes up in discussions, but when it comes to listening in my system, I haven't thought about my DAC for a long time. Any changes in my system lately haven't had anything to do with the DAC, made me question its contribution to the sound or conversely, made me marvel at its performance. I simply take it for granted to make great sounding, beautiful music.

***

Edit: After thinking about it for a bit, I realize this is not entirely true. But it is for the most part.

The latest power cord changes in my system did make me marvel again at what the DAC is capable of, especially on the timbre of massed strings. Also, recently hearing the performance of the DAC in a friend's system compared to another DAC was exhilarating (he is acquiring the same model). But in my own system indeed I mostly don't think about it anymore.

 

[Cableman]

There are different types of people in this hobby. Gearheads are common.

I personally tend to view the gear as means to an end as well. Yet for a time I was, for example, fascinated by the technical design of my DAC. I still talk about it when the theme comes up in discussions, but when it comes to listening in my system, I haven't thought about my DAC for a long time. Any changes in my system lately haven't had anything to do with the DAC, made me question its contribution to the sound or conversely, made me marvel at its performance. I simply take it for granted to make great sounding, beautiful music.

We are split between music lovers and hifi lovers.
Never be a hifi lover!

 

[andromedaaudio]

There are different types of people in this hobby

Do you happen to know next years admission fee of the Horn Cult Al ?

 

[PeterA]

Do you happen to know next years admission fee of the Horn Cult Al ?

Andro, what do you think is the percentage of horns versus cones on this forum? And why do you refer to it as a cult? Perhaps this will get us back to the topic of this thread.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Andro, what do you think is the percentage of horns versus cones on this forum? And why do you refer to it as a cult? Perhaps this will get us back to the topic of this thread.

I have not counted that peter , may be 30 -70 , 30 percent horns versus cones / planar transducers .
I was refererring to the cult idea because some of the horn admirers are very protective about their transducer choice .
They see it as the only way music is perceived correctly ( no distortion / true to source ) .

 

[PeterA]

I have not counted that peter , may be 30 -70 , 30 percent horns versus cones / planar transducers .
I was refererring to the cult idea because some of the horn admirers are very protective about their transducer choice .
They see it as the only way music is perceived correctly ( no distortion / true to source ) .

I think the same can be said for other members and their choices as well as what type of source people listen to. For some horn owners, the speaker is the default choice to get to the type of amp they want.

The reference to perhaps a third of the members choices here as a cult is interesting. Look at all the interest in the magico M9 speaker and the fervor with which Al M defends his choice of speakers. To me cult has different connotations.

I think there’s a renewed interest in high-efficiency speakers on the forum and the benefits that they can bring, but I don’t see it as a cult, just an enthusiastic subgroup of the membership here. People do make what they call pilgrimages both out to Seattle and to Utah. Perhaps the language is just part of the fun and you are referring to the level of enthusiasm among these members.

 

[jeff1225]

Sorry jeffrey, but the gear itself is not the reason for my involvement in this hobby, it is simply a means to an end. Obtaining realistic reproduction of a musical event is why I engage. That being the case, I do depend upon members who are experts on the “gear”, like yourself, whenever I have technical questions.

You’ve missed my point. Women’s hobbies are focused on creating (sewing, gardening, cooking, etc) where the gear is purchased for a single task. A woman typically buys one high quality sewing machine and is done with it. A man would have multiple machines, special stands, power cords, reels, etc.

Personally, I’m not a gear head. I have 10,000 records, that’s where I spend most of my time, buying and listening to records.

 

[bonzo75]

FWIW below is some recent data out of the computer gaming industry. Just an example of a thriving hobby with lots of men and women participating. It is not a "kind" environment--lots of trash-talking bravado.

View attachment 86552

This is shocking. We really need to improve on our trash talk to attract more women into the hobby

 

[andromedaaudio]

I think the same can be said for other members and their choices as well as what type of source people listen to. For some horn owners, the speaker is the default choice to get to the type of amp they want.

The reference to perhaps a third of the members choices here as a cult is interesting. Look at all the interest in the magico M9 speaker and the fervor with which Al M defends his choice of speakers. To me cult has different connotations.

I think there’s a renewed interest in high-efficiency speakers on the forum and the benefits that they can bring, but I don’t see it as a cult, just an enthusiastic subgroup of the membership here. People do make what they call pilgrimages both out to Seattle and to Utah. Perhaps the language is just part of the fun and you are referring to the level of enthusiasm among these members.

I said " some" of the Horn team /camp
Horns versus cones , magico versus wilson , analogue versus digital expensive cables versus cheap cables tubes versus SS
Its simply Humanity,.... which team( country )are you on


All divided in different teams / camps, sometimes it looks like a junior /childrens camp

 

[PeterA]

I said " some" of Horn team /camp
Horns versus cones , magico versus wilson , analogue versus digital expensive cables versus cheap cables tubes versus SS
Its simply Humanity,.... which team( country )are you on


All divided in different teams / camps, sometimes it looks like a junior /childrens camp

yes, that’s precisely my point yet you referred to only one of them as a cult. To me that’s rather divisive which is what I think the article in the OP is trying to address.

 

[KeithR]

Many different points there. One you are arguing for people to talk in a way you deem nice. That's fine. Second you interpret Tang's joke as something bad. If such humor is bad itself is debatable, and neither you nor Ron have the right to judge that for us. You don't like it, don't join that talk. Third, is an argument that either of first two, or both is affecting women participation, which is a completely unfounded assumption

Telling dick jokes on an audio forum isn’t about gear or the hobby and is poor taste. It’s not that hard man.

None of you would walk up to a group of women in a public setting and say these things.

Would it be ok to post racist Indian jokes? I mean you can’t judge what people think is funny right. You can ignore it correct?

People actually went off on this forum on the Wuhan virus stuff calling it so, but then posting locker room humor, slutty women pics on speakers, and other stuff is ok. It’s so ironic.

Whether you believe women joining this hobby is important is not my concern - but we should have a welcome, public environment for all to post. That isn’t woke, politically correct, or anything. It’s common courtesy/sense.

 

[bonzo75]

Telling dick jokes on an audio forum isn’t about gear or the hobby and is poor taste. It’s not that hard man.

None of you would walk up to a group of women in a public setting and say these things.

Would it be ok to post racist Indian jokes? I mean you can’t judge what people think is funny right. You can ignore it correct?

People actually went off on this forum on the Wuhan virus stuff calling it so, but then posting locker room humor, slutty women pics on speakers, and other stuff is ok. It’s so ironic.

Whether you believe women joining this hobby is important is not my concern - but we should have a welcome, public environment for all to post. That isn’t woke, politically correct, or anything. It’s common courtesy/sense.

I don't get it. The slutty women pics or sexist jokes were not made by the same people. In case you don't get it, what people are objecting to is that you or Ron have the gall to call people who made jokes like tang did as sexist. Please neither of you have earned that holier than thou right and these guys know what is sexist. Don't mix these with the guys who display models next to hifi. You are making headline comments. Keep in mind that if I shout enough you are racist, that is what people will remember you by, right or wrong. A dick joke is quite common with women as well. It depends if it is cracked in a nice funny manner or in a vulgar offensive manner.

 

[Al M.]

The reference to perhaps a third of the members choices here as a cult is interesting. Look at all the interest in the magico M9 speaker and the fervor with which Al M defends his choice of speakers. To me cult has different connotations.

While I may defend, or instead rather write enthusiastically about, my choice of speakers, I don't run around claiming that speakers like mine are the only reasonable choice (and I would certainly not try to fill a large room with them either).

The larger point, however, is that there are some members who proclaim that high-efficiency speakers are the only way to go, or that if only everyone would hear great horns they would go that route. Or that SET amps are the only option for realistic sound reproduction. That kind of absolutism has a smell of cult to me, and apparently to some others as well.

I know that you personally are not that exclusive.

 

[Al M.]

yes, that’s precisely my point yet you referred to only one of them as a cult. To me that’s rather divisive which is what I think the article in the OP is trying to address.

Peter, calling anything that relates to potentially revealing an inconvenient truth "divisive" is not a convincing strategy.

 

[bonzo75]

While I may defend, or instead rather write enthusiastically about, my choice of speakers, I don't run around claiming that speakers like mine are the only reasonable choice (and I would certainly not try to fill a large room with them either).

The larger point, however, is that there are some members who proclaim that high-efficiency speakers are the only way to go, or that if only everyone would hear great horns they would go that route. Or that SET amps are the only option for realistic sound reproduction. That kind of absolutism has a smell of cult to me, and apparently to some others as well.

I know that you personally are not that exclusive.

Afaik only Brad does that. And Marc says Zu is the only way. So your post is quite misleading

 

[PeterA]

Peter, calling anything that relates to potentially revealing an inconvenient truth "divisive" is not a convincing strategy.

Al, what is the inconvenient truth to which you refer? I’m having trouble following the argument.

If you are suggesting there’s a fervency with which some members espouse the virtues of the choices they make, then I agree with that. But I do not see it as being unique to the SET horn crowd. I recall the extreme division the title of my system thread caused. Was that a deliberate choice by me or simply the way some readers imagined I set up the division between my two very different systems: sublime or natural?

I think we are all enthusiasts here and tastes evolve and change. There seems to be an increase in thread topic discussion about high efficient systems and horns in particular, but I don’t see that in any way as a troubling sign or threat. It’s just a trend and an opinion or the simple sharing of our perceptions at the moment.

 

[Cableman]

As I read it, the author made valid historical points that have nothing with wokeness. Not every argument that you or I don't like is 'woke' -- let's avoid knee-jerk reactions.

As I said before, I have a distaste for the term as well. I will concede that sporadically I may use it off-hand for quick convenience. However, when it came to the choice of replacing "he/she" in a crucial paragraph of an article of mine, I engaged in a time-consuming rewrite of the paragraph in its entirety, in order to not just get rid of "he/she", but also to avoid the dreaded alternative "they".

Anyone who is trying to confuse this debate by consciously bringing in women's rights to music is being dishonest to themselves and the rest of us. We might as well make this about the top 0.1 percent and poor divide, or carbon emissions, or something else and express shock.

I can't believe Ron is ignoring all the hobbies women aren't in, and the men who aren't into audio, and thinks of himself as the reformer who will clean up language on the forum to get women into audio.

To be clear most men don’t give a monkeys about high end audio either

 

[spiritofmusic]

To be clear most men don’t give a monkeys about high end audio either

Yep, some guys have a life Lol.