Does Tonal Balance Affect Perceived Pace and Perceived Resolution?

[Ron Resnick]

mxk116 wrote on my system thread:

"This tonal shift also alters my perception of the rhythmic pace of the performance making the two recordings sound like two different takes of the same song."

I started a new thread on this point because I think it is an interesting topic: Do we sometimes mistake a difference in tonal balance for a difference in pace or a difference in resolution?

In radio communications speakers often have EQ buttons to suppress bass frequencies and emphasize midrange and treble frequencies to enhance the intelligibility of voice communications. But twisting up the treble control does not increase resolution (defined by me as the audio equivalent of pixels per unit of area) although it will enhance intelligibility and it may appear to enhance detail.

Does turning up the bass control (in our audio context, using warmer sounding electronics, for example) appear to slow down the pace of the musical presentation?

 

[MadFloyd]

In my experience, yes.

Especially if the bass is exciting the room resulting in more overhang etc.

I’ve experienced this not just from amplification but source components.

 

[mtemur]

I’m not sure if more bass slows down the pace but depending on the speaker’s design and speed more bass can reduce resolution. In some cases more bass can occupy driver so much that driver can pass details or cannot effectively produce higher frequencies. It’s also related with amplifier’s grip and control over speaker.

 

[Ron Resnick]

depending on the speaker’s design and speed more bass can reduce resolution. In some cases more bass can occupy driver so much that driver can pass details or cannot effectively produce higher frequencies.

This makes sense to me if you are talking about a single driver speaker.

Assuming you are not talking about a single driver speaker, would you please elaborate on how this happens? For example, how would this happen in a three-way dynamic driver speaker?

 

[mtemur]

This makes sense to me if you are talking about a single driver speaker.

Assuming you are not talking about a single driver speaker, would you please elaborate on how this happens? For example, how would this happen in a three-way dynamic driver speaker?

Even in a 3 way dynamic speaker, a woofer is not only responsible for bass, it also produces some of the mid frequencies depending on the crossover cut off frequency. Additionally -again depending on the crossover design- a woofer continues to be active above cut off frequency but it decreases while frequency increases.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Even in a 3 way dynamic speaker, a woofer is not only responsible for bass, it also produces some of the mid frequencies depending on the crossover cut off frequency. Additionally -again depending on the crossover design- a woofer continues to be active above cut off frequency but it decreases while frequency increases.

Yes.

You originally wrote "more bass can reduce resolution." How does this happen? Is actual resolution being reduced?

Or is the apparent detail being slightly blurred (with no actual change in resolution) if bass frequencies intrude into the midrange?

 

[mtemur]

Yes.

You originally wrote "more bass can reduce resolution." How does this happen? Is actual resolution being reduced?

Or is the apparent detail being slightly blurred (with no actual change in resolution) if bass frequencies intrude into the midrange?

If more bass prevents the driver doing it’s job resolution can reduce. Maybe it can be more noticeable on mid and high frequencies or on woofers covering more mid frequencies. A woofer trying hard to produce continuing bass note can pass to produce a low-mid detail.
I’m talking about minute differences.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

i see this differently. and i call it sneaky bass. and it's about balance (including tonal balance), where the system has the power headroom, and linearity in the upper and mid bass to stay linear. and that you don't have that one note bass overhang. you only have bass when it's there....and then you have BASS.

we see 'loudness' contour type bass performance where it's just easier to push one frequency instead of getting them all correct. or adding a sub and getting a degree of doubling which gets worse as you push things. just limitations of integration. maybe some of this is related to sealed box bass verses ported. degrees of precision in trade for fullness. lots of different approaches. but compromises do limit performance.

my system has plenty of power grid and amplification headroom, and it has -4- 11" woofers per side at 97db, 7 ohm efficiency only operating from 35hz to 250hz, then a bass tower (-4- 15" active drivers per side) from -3db @ 7hz to 50hz. lots of driver surface, minimal driver excursion, very fast and linear.

sneaky bass is real, and it can capture the whole picture and is not over emphasized to fill in what is missing by exaggerating what it can do to make up for what it cannot do. and the system integration is designed in. not added on. so tonally it holds up. and when the bass is extended and right, the highs are also in balance too.....and the tone is real and so is the music. and the pace and drive of the music is real and alive. then the detail does not get covered up, it comes thru as musical information and immersion. your investment in sources and media is fully realized.

 

[tima]

mxk116 wrote on my system thread:

"This tonal shift also alters my perception of the rhythmic pace of the performance making the two recordings sound like two different takes of the same song."

Here's the complete post for context which is about comparing 2 videos of two different performances, presumably made with the same system:

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/ron%E2%80%99s-new-system.35810/page-286#post-979842

He is saying (I think) that the different tonal balance of the two different performances (although he says "the performance" which seems confused) makes them sound like two version of the same recording.

Not to my ears -- they remain two different performances each distinct in the way they sound, each distinct in their tonalities and rhythms, and they do not sound like two versions of the same song.

Does turning up the bass control (in our audio context, using warmer sounding electronics, for example) appear to slow down the pace of the musical presentation?

It's not surprising that two different systems (one with warmer sounding electronics for example) might sound differently for the same performance.

To make any sense of this I imagine you would modify a system's tonal balance with an equalizer (tone controls) and play the same tune at different settings. Although the tune has the same duration, does one setting sound ... what? ... faster, quicker, slower, having a different time signature than the other? Pace strikes me as a highly subjective impression, so different impressions from different people would not surprise me.

Attempting to generalize across sonic characteristics (tone, pace) seems likely to produce a lot of discussion but bear little fruit.