DSD Battle Royale!

[Bruce B]

I had the same question about the Playback Designs DSD DACs - where would they fit in the comparison if a PD ADC was available ?

Well the PBD is the best DSD DAC I've ever heard in my system, so hopefully if Andreas were to create an A/D, it would certainly better the Merging Horus and have the listenability of the Meitner. It is true to the source and it is also musical. It doesn't quite have the dynamics of the Grimm, but it's close. Another DAC I've had in my system now for a couple of weeks is the Lampizator DSD. On some material, I prefer it over the PBD. I'm sure if it had the upgraded caps and tubes, it would certainly surpass it.

 

[microstrip]

Well the PBD is the best DSD DAC I've ever heard in my system, so hopefully if Andreas were to create an A/D, it would certainly better the Merging Horus and have the listenability of the Meitner. It is true to the source and it is also musical. It doesn't quite have the dynamics of the Grimm, but it's close. Another DAC I've had in my system now for a couple of weeks is the Lampizator DSD. On some material, I prefer it over the PBD. I'm sure if it had the upgraded caps and tubes, it would certainly surpass it.

Bruce,

Are referring to this DAC? It is very reasonably priced in Europe.

http://www.lampizator.eu/newdac/lampizator/DSD_DAC.html

Can you summarize your findings about its sound characteristics it versus the PBD?

 

[wisnon]

Its available in the US too:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=121617.msg1280586#new

 

[bmoura]

Well the PBD is the best DSD DAC I've ever heard in my system, so hopefully if Andreas were to create an A/D, it would certainly better the Merging Horus and have the listenability of the Meitner. It is true to the source and it is also musical. It doesn't quite have the dynamics of the Grimm, but it's close. Another DAC I've had in my system now for a couple of weeks is the Lampizator DSD. On some material, I prefer it over the PBD. I'm sure if it had the upgraded caps and tubes, it would certainly surpass it.

The Playback Designs DAC is certainly very impressive. Unfortunately out of my price range - the Horus is a bit more affordable.

Interesting comments on the Lampizator DSD. I'll have to check and see how to get an audition of that one.

 

[Robin Hood]

Here you go...

001. Tascam DA-3000
002. EMM Labs ADC8 IV
003. Grimm AD1
004. Korg MR2000s
005. Merging Horus

Thanks for the test, but what does it all mean?

I liked the Tascam, Grimm and Korg. I didn't like the EMM Labs or the Merging Horus.

My preference criteria was what sounded more natural and which music file conveyed more (foot-tapping) emotion.

Are our preferences a result of our particular DSD Dac, our ears or both? By the way it was primarily your recommendation several years ago that led me to buy the Korg ($1700) to digitize some of my vinyl to DSD128.

 

[audioarcher]

Thanks for the test, but what does it all mean?

I liked the Tascam, Grimm and Korg. I didn't like the EMM Labs or the Merging Horus.

My preference criteria was what sounded more natural and which music file conveyed more (foot-tapping) emotion.

Are our preferences a result of our particular DSD Dac, our ears or both? By the way it was primarily your recommendation several years ago that led me to buy the Korg ($1700) to digitize some of my vinyl to DSD128.

Good questions. I've wondered the same thing myself. Would there be just as many different takes if everyone were listening through the same system? Maybe.

 

[Bruce B]

Thanks for the test, but what does it all mean?.

So much has been said about transparency and provenence, that even what A/D converter that was used has been mentioned as the most important. If you look over on other forums such as CA and SA-CD, people say the best A/D converter by far is the Grimm. Well here is a chance to make your preferences clear and that (in my opinion), the Grimm is not the end all/be all converter to beat.
The files may have been all over the map as far as loudness/peak because I didn't want to do any changes, which would be another added variable. As another poster suggested, even running the tape multiple times can have varibilities. I ran splitters and made 3 recordings at one time to cut down on the varibility between takes. The only thing I did to the tracks was pull them in Pyramix and cut dead air. The cables used were nothing exotic (about $5/ft).
I will work this weekend on putting up more files as well as using another (more affordable?) converter. Also will be putting up PCM files so folks can form an opinion on those as well. Maybe the best DSD converter is not the best PCM converter. This just gives folks some suggestions on what to look for if ever they were to venture into digitizing their LP or tape collections.
Is the Grimm 10x better than the Korg? Not really. For my preferences, I like the Horus and Meitner better.

 

[audioarcher]

I'm curious about the quality of the clocks (jitter performance) in the various ADC's. You don't hear this discussed much. I'm sure it is just as important in the ADC as it is in the DAC.

 

[Bruce B]

I'm curious about the quality of the clocks (jitter performance) in the various ADC's. You don't hear this discussed much. I'm sure it is just as important in the ADC as it is in the DAC.

Actually it's more important in the ADC. I've tried external clocks for A/D and D/A and have not heard a single difference when using a SINGLE converter. When recording using multiple converters, then you should use a single clock.

As far as jitter measuremts go... I haven't a clue!

 

[bmoura]

A question on the DSD64 files.

It looks like #003 and #004 have the same size: 84103kb. Is that correct? Or was one sample posted twice ?

 

[Bruce B]

A question on the DSD64 files.

It looks like #003 and #004 have the same size: 84103kb. Is that correct? Or was one sample posted twice ?

They probably are the same size. I pulled them in Pyramix and tried to cut all of them in the same exact spot.

 

[bmoura]

They probably are the same size. I pulled them in Pyramix and tried to cut all of them in the same exact spot.

I wondered since all of the other files have different file sizes.

 

[PhilipAC]

Bruce

From your previous knowledge of the Ayre QA-09, where would you put it relative to these five?

Also, have you heard the PS Audio Nuwave Phono Converter?

Thanks

Hi Bruce

Any comment on this please? If you would rather not comment, that's fine.

 

[Bruce B]

Bruce

From your previous knowledge of the Ayre QA-09, where would you put it relative to these five?

Also, have you heard the PS Audio Nuwave Phono Converter?

Thanks

No, I have not had the opportunity to hear the PS Audio converter.

I would place the Ayre somewhere between the Horus and Grimm. Not as colored as the Meitner, but more accurate to the source.
I'll try to get some files up with the Ayre this weekend. Charlie wants me to put some PCM files up as well.

 

[microstrip]

Bruce,

Just one more DSD converter question - did you listen to the famous Marantz NA-11S1 in DSD mode?

 

[PhilipAC]

No, I have not had the opportunity to hear the PS Audio converter.

I would place the Ayre somewhere between the Horus and Grimm. Not as colored as the Meitner, but more accurate to the source.
I'll try to get some files up with the Ayre this weekend. Charlie wants me to put some PCM files up as well.

Thanks Bruce. Happy Thanksgiving weekend!

 

[Bruce B]

Bruce,

Just one more DSD converter question - did you listen to the famous Marantz NA-11S1 in DSD mode?

No, I have not... guess there are just too many out there to listen to these days!

 

[Nevillekapadia]

Bruce, I was sleeping for so long that I just saw and read about the downloads. So THANKS and hope you are having a great Thanks giving.

My choice of pick on 64 files
Horus
Modded Korg
Grimm (I found it more difficult to ascertain between 2&3 placing)
Emm (sweeter and it flowed better, though you could not get the quality of transparency like the Horus)
Tascam - I guess its stock and probably needs burn in still?

In the 128 files
File Number 5 (Horus???)
File number 4 ( Modded Korg???)
File Number 1 (Stock Tascam??)

That was fun Bruce, look forward to the PCM and DSD outcome from the Ayre.

Oh and thanks to the artist/performer Bad Company singing Seagull.

Best,
Neville

 

[Orb]

No, I have not... guess there are just too many out there to listen to these days!

Regarding the NA-11S1 and DSD.
John Atkinson said in his review:

While I've been skeptical about the 1-bit sigma-delta encoding format used by DSD, the sound of these files streamed to the Marantz was among the best I have experienced in my system. As I finish writing this review, I'm listening to the final movement of Iv†n Fischer and the Budapest Festival Orchestra's recording of Mahler's Symphony 1 (SACD/CD, Channel Classics CCS SA 33112), which Kal Rubinson enthused about in his July 2013 "Music in the Round" column. The NA-11S1 is set to Filter 1 and the soundstage is spacious. More important, there's a silky smoothness to the sound of the strings very reminiscent of the real thing in that it is not accompanied by mellowness. It's difficult to resist the sheer beauty of the orchestral sound in DSD, to keep myself from abandoning the laptop to pay the appropriate attention to Mahler's marvelous scoring.

I need to look back and see if Keith Howard made any comments on this product in HiFi News because he is also skeptical of DSD compared to well done hirez PCM.
Cheers
Orb

 

[mep]

Regarding the NA-11S1 and DSD.
John Atkinson said in his review:


I need to look back and see if Keith Howard made any comments on this product in HiFi News because he is also skeptical of DSD compared to well done hirez PCM.
Cheers
Orb

Sometimes you need to quit looking at specifications and use your ears to tell you whether something sounds better. Sounds like JA came to that conclusion. For me, there is no comparison between PCM and DSD in terms of which one sounds more real.