DSD to PCM Conversion A/B Test Results

[AMR / iFi audio]

On my Sadie 5 DSD8 DAW, all crossfades, level controls, EQ’s, and dynamic processes are performed real time at DSD rate (2.8224 MHz) without conversion of the audio to PCM.

Thank you for the info, I'll check out their website for more info. Any other websites you can recommend to me, so I can learn more?

 

[Carlos269]

Thank you for the info, I'll check out their website for more info. Any other websites you can recommend to me, so I can learn more?

The exceptional Sadie 5 and Sonoma DSD, and the great sounding but unreliable Genex, workstations are no longer available as current products. Pyramix is the only DAW with dedicated DSD features found today and it is a Merging product. There maybe another smaller player DAW software tool that implements DSD-wide but their name escapes me at this time.

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

The exceptional Sadie 5 and Sonoma DSD, and the great sounding but unreliable Genex, workstations are no longer available as current products. Pyramix is the only DAW with dedicated DSD features found today and it is a Merging product. There maybe another smaller player DAW software tool that implements DSD-wide but their name escapes me at this time.

Thanks a lot. Learning every day

 

[Bruce B]

The exceptional Sadie 5 and Sonoma DSD, and the great sounding but unreliable Genex, workstations are no longer available as current products. Pyramix is the only DAW with dedicated DSD features found today and it is a Merging product. There maybe another smaller player DAW software tool that implements DSD-wide but their name escapes me at this time.

I've been using Pyramix for about 15yr. now. I thought Korg came out with an editor at one point. Also, didn't Playback Designs have an editor as well?

 

[Lee]

I've been using Pyramix for about 15yr. now. I thought Korg came out with an editor at one point. Also, didn't Playback Designs have an editor as well?

I believe we got AudioGate when we bought the Korg.

 

[Lee]

AudioGate4 - HIGH RESOLUTION MUSIC PLAYER | KORG (USA)

AudioGate 4 now includes the ability to create high-resolution audio recordings.

www.korg.com

 

[Bruce B]

I believe we got AudioGate when we bought the Korg.

I've got this, but didn't they also produce an "editor" at some point?

 

[Ian B]

I've got this, but didn't they also produce an "editor" at some point?

Vaporware, I think. Was going to be a workstation called "Clarity" .

 

[Lee]

I've got this, but didn't they also produce an "editor" at some point?

I believe it has some limited editing capabilities but certainly not at Sadie level.

 

[Dustin Symanski]

I think I see what you are getting at...Almost all available DXD recordings are Merging Horus/Hapi interfaces, or DAD AX32/MTRX. They are delta sigma chips, AKM I believe. I don't personally think DS disqualifies a converter, even MSB's own ADC is DS. There are no R2R ADCs that go above 20 bit performance currently, and it is a hard stop where they can only make resisters up to 20 bit and add 4 bits of digital padding.

The dynamic range in the past was around 125db-ish for Merging cards, which in performance equivalence is 21 bit. The new cards are pretty close to 24 bit performance, at 136db. These cards do indeed create an actual 24 bit digital signal, but performance on the analog side is not quite there.

Again, I don't equate analog noise floor with digital bit depth.

Yes the last ADC (MSB Studio ADC) I designed was Delta Sigma, but definitely not DSD by any stretch. It used 4 seventh order differential delta sigma modulators per channel @ 6 bits 6.144Mhz per modulator with correlated digitally generrated analog dither added to the ADC references to linearize the modulators which was then digitally subtracted from the digital data stream to reduce the idle tones and linearity errors of the high order delta sigma modulators. This was then processed in 5 DSPs to linearize the output and remove the out of band Delta Sigma Modulators noise. So Delta Sigma YES but definitely not DSD. Basically 8 bit equivalent Delta Sigma data (not single bit DSD) processed to generate 24bit Digital PCM up to 384kHz. DSD output would have been pointless because it simply didn't have enough resolution .

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

Yes the last ADC (MSB Studio ADC) I designed was Delta Sigma, but definitely not DSD by any stretch. It used 4 seventh order differential delta sigma modulators per channel @ 6 bits 6.144Mhz per modulator with correlated digitally generrated analog dither added to the ADC references to linearize the modulators which was then digitally subtracted from the digital data stream to reduce the idle tones and linearity errors of the high order delta sigma modulators. This was then processed in 5 DSPs to linearize the output and remove the out of band Delta Sigma Modulators noise. So Delta Sigma YES but definitely not DSD. Basically 8 bit equivalent Delta Sigma data (not single bit DSD) processed to generate 24bit Digital PCM up to 384kHz. DSD output would have been pointless because it simply didn't have enough resolution .

That is some next-level engineering! Summing all of the channels and other circuits in the device, how many DSP's are you using?

 

[Dustin Symanski]

That is some next-level engineering! Summing all of the channels and other circuits in the device, how many DSP's are you using?

Like I said it was 5 400Mhz SHARC DSPs. Its quite an old product over 10 years old at this point so these were state of the art at that time.

 

[Ian B]

Like I said it was 5 400Mhz SHARC DSPs. Its quite an old product over 10 years old at this point so these were state of the art at that time.

A friend of mine keeps talking about acquiring one that isn't spoken for. As far ADC there still isn't anything better, at least for PCM. It's not as well known as Pacific Microsonics Model 2, but should be held in at least as high regard.

What is interesting though, is that the design increases harmonic distortion at high input levels, and the most well known user, Ted Jensen, runs his well into the red, presumably for that coloration.

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

Like I said it was 5 400Mhz SHARC DSPs. Its quite an old product over 10 years old at this point so these were state of the art at that time.

Even a 10-year-old SHARC packs a punch! I think how much different the DSP processors are from the normal x86 processors. Can you substitute those SHARCs with an FPGA or an x86 processor? Is it possible, but not viable?

 

[Bruce B]

Yes the last ADC (MSB Studio ADC) I designed was Delta Sigma, but definitely not DSD by any stretch

I used to have a MSB stack... was quite good!

 

[Lee]

I used to have a MSB stack... was quite good!

Chesky Records has used the MSB ADC.