EAR Yoshino 912

[bazelio]

You have both the emia lr phono and their sut? Do you need a sut with a LR phono?

Can you please describe the sound of emia LR, Grail and 912 in respect to each other.

Yes. My system is the Emia LR phono with their silver SUT. I run the output of the LR phono into the silver Emia AVC, then to my amp. (Actually my AVC was DIY, but it's the same AVC as in the silver Emia). For the LR phono, Dave Slagle will design a SUT for you that is tailored to your specific cartridge, in my case a Transfiguration Proteus. When you change carts, you can trade in the SUT for a different one custom designed for the new cart. The phono is MM, so you need a SUT. You can run multiple MC carts through a switch box they provide, but then of course you'd need multiple SUTs unless both carts we're ideal matches for the same SUT. I'd probably rather move RCAs around, in either case than use a switch box. If you are interested in the Emia phono with your existing SUTs, talk to Dave first about your carts. I don't think he uses the standard 47k MM load (purposefully) in the Emia, and can tell you what'd work best in terms of step-up ratio and load for your cart. Hopefully your SUTs provide a way for resistive loading the primaries.

For me, the VdH was all about slam and speed. It hit really hard all the time and in my system, was over the top. It became fatiguing. I suspect it'd work well in tube amp systems, or other systems that might be a bit on the slow and soft side to begin with.

When you move from an active line stage such as the EAR to an Emia silver, you're going to immediately notice the bass. You'll be shocked at what you were missing in terms of both quality and quantity. The articulation you get with the AVC will be stunning. The AVC is just an overall transparent device that will sound brighter (in a good way), more articulate and detailed. It doesn't really have a describable character of it's own, but will provide a clean window into the character of the rest of your system. Versus just about any active pre, it will remove a layer of grunge to varying degrees. For me, I'd not got back to active. I haven't found shortcomings of the silver Emia. It has, however, allowed me to identify shortcomings elsewhere in my system.

The EAR sound is softer, less detailed, less airy, and more warm, romantic, bloomy, and veiled. People usually talk about it as having "heart and soul". There's nothing wrong with liking it for what it is.

Ask me specific questions via PM if you like.

@bonzo75 I believe the Mayer phonos use the same Slagle discrete LR RIAA circuit. Both the Emia and Mayer also use D3a. But Emia uses all of Dave's magnetics and a different output tube, the 12A4 triode. The PSU designs are obviously different also.

 

[MPS]

I might have a chance to compare a friend's 912 in my own system to my current ARC REF 3 + ARC REF PH2SE combination. I will report here when done.
Just by having heard both systems several times, I would describe my ARC's as neutral and controlled and friend's EAR as natural (live?) and dynamic when compared to each other, well, "the truth" is still out there. One thing to remind is that EAR responds well to tube rolling where as ARC is very limited.
Even without having direct comparison made, I would still call EAR 912 a "bargain" in high end side of the world.

 

[bazelio]

With EAR, I found the best sound with NOS Mullard 6922s on early stages, combined with a NOS Mazda 7308 in the final stage. Tubes are in series, so the tube rolling permutations can be endless. For what it's worth.

 

[montesquieu]

Yes. My system is the Emia LR phono with their silver SUT. I run the output of the LR phono into the silver Emia AVC, then to my amp. (Actually my AVC was DIY, but it's the same AVC as in the silver Emia). For the LR phono, Dave Slagle will design a SUT for you that is tailored to your specific cartridge, in my case a Transfiguration Proteus. When you change carts, you can trade in the SUT for a different one custom designed for the new cart. The phono is MM, so you need a SUT. You can run multiple MC carts through a switch box they provide, but then of course you'd need multiple SUTs unless both carts we're ideal matches for the same SUT. I'd probably rather move RCAs around, in either case than use a switch box. If you are interested in the Emia phono with your existing SUTs, talk to Dave first about your carts. I don't think he uses the standard 47k MM load (purposefully) in the Emia, and can tell you what'd work best in terms of step-up ratio and load for your cart. Hopefully your SUTs provide a way for resistive loading the primaries.

For me, the VdH was all about slam and speed. It hit really hard all the time and in my system, was over the top. It became fatiguing. I suspect it'd work well in tube amp systems, or other systems that might be a bit on the slow and soft side to begin with.

When you move from an active line stage such as the EAR to an Emia silver, you're going to immediately notice the bass. You'll be shocked at what you were missing in terms of both quality and quantity. The articulation you get with the AVC will be stunning. The AVC is just an overall transparent device that will sound brighter (in a good way), more articulate and detailed. It doesn't really have a describable character of it's own, but will provide a clean window into the character of the rest of your system. Versus just about any active pre, it will remove a layer of grunge to varying degrees. For me, I'd not got back to active. I haven't found shortcomings of the silver Emia. It has, however, allowed me to identify shortcomings elsewhere in my system.

The EAR sound is softer, less detailed, less airy, and more warm, romantic, bloomy, and veiled. People usually talk about it as having "heart and soul". There's nothing wrong with liking it for what it is.

Ask me specific questions via PM if you like.

@bonzo75 I believe the Mayer phonos use the same Slagle discrete LR RIAA circuit. Both the Emia and Mayer also use D3a. But Emia uses all of Dave's magnetics and a different output tube, the 12A4 triode. The PSU designs are obviously different also.

Hmm .. having been down the TVC route with the top-end Music First (and tried all the other passive options from high-end stepped attenuators to LDR to zero gain powered buffers) I'm a bit skeptical. I never found a non-active linestage I could live with and the EAR for all its slight lack of spatial cues remains better than all of them in my view. I guess it all depends what your ears prefer. For me there's nothing truthful about a sound stripped of warmth and musicality, in pursuit of some notional idea of purity.

I forgot to mention BTW tube rolling on the EAR 912, a full set of Telefunkens stripped the sound down too much for me, too thin, but three out of five used judiciously (two in the line stage and one in the central position of the phono stage, with normal Phillips/TdP valves in the other places) was a good balance, improving detail without removing warmth and character.

 

[bazelio]

Good news: An AVC does not "strip sound of warmth".

I'm not going to argue preference except to say if you like the added colorations from active preamplifiers, then an AVC or TVC isn't for you. No harm, no foul.

 

[MPS]

Good points.
If I'm not mistaken the EAR I heard had NOS Mullards for ECC88 and NOS Tung-Sol for ECC83. I heard the same comment about Telefunkens, too "flat" sounding in this device.
oops, Tung-Sols were in his EAR509s.

 

[bonzo75]

I still have to hear a good passive line stage. theory is all fine, but it does add color by stripping tone, taking out decay, and making things grey. Saying active is adding color is too simplistic

 

[bazelio]

Ked, it sounds like you do need to hear one, yes. But you also need to hear one in a system that was well put together to take advantage of it, too. Because, the tone, decay, etc comes from the rest of the system. In the case of the Emia LR phono stage, it provides all of this and then the AVC is a pass-through. The two were designed to be used in tandem. Adding another power supply in a tube or transistor line stage at that point would only color the sound further. It's not too complicated.

 

[Solypsa]

...But you also need to hear one in a system that was well put together to take advantage of it, too. ...

This includes the phono preamp having the ability to successfully drive the passive (which in turn is reflecting the amps load) which of course the Emia (as one example) was built to do as a system.

One the other hand sometimes we worry too much about 'stripping down the active stages to a minimum'.

Ked: when at Silvercore did you hear both passive and active preamp? Just curious

 

[bazelio]

Yep. And the inductive passives like AVCs resolve most impedance mismatch issues. Other passives like straight resistor ladders don't. That said, not even inductive volume controls are ideally suited to all situations. Know what you're doing.

 

[bonzo75]

Hi Solypsa, at Silvercore I did not get to swap preamps. I heard his entire chain. Iirc his active is the more expensive one

 

[bonzo75]

I am not discussing as a system. I am discussing stand alone

 

[bonzo75]

I have tried Ypsilon in both passive and active mode. With one amp it worked better in passive, with another in active

 

[KeithR]

Hmm .. having been down the TVC route with the top-end Music First (and tried all the other passive options from high-end stepped attenuators to LDR to zero gain powered buffers) I'm a bit skeptical. I never found a non-active linestage I could live with and the EAR for all its slight lack of spatial cues remains better than all of them in my view. I guess it all depends what your ears prefer. For me there's nothing truthful about a sound stripped of warmth and musicality, in pursuit of some notional idea of purity.

Funny, I replaced the EAR with a Music First Baby Reference v2. The big issue with the EAR was the bass in my system - it was a mess. There is no loss of weight or body with the MF like a typical resistor-based passive. The only negative was a smidgeon narrower sound stage. I had my druthers about the EAR mating well with my ARC at the time, but @bazelio confirmed a few of the same things later. Of course I tube rolled the EAR so the comparison was valid.

But i do admit synergy may be important in this kind of setup.

 

[bazelio]

Funny, I replaced the EAR with a Music First Baby Reference v2. The big issue with the EAR was the bass in my system - it was a mess.

I first replaced the EAR line stage with a copper Emia. Big win. Then I upgraded the copper to silver. Bigger win.

 

[montesquieu]

It always baffles me when people go passive in this way as I bought into the idea for a while and tried really hard to make it work. But it never did. I've just never liked what passives do to the music. Whether I'm a long-term Tannoy user has anything to do with it I don't know.

Incidentally on the back of this discussion I finally (well it's only been a week or two really) got round to changing the rectifier on the H7000V. The RCA I ordered is still on its way but I dug out a Sylvania 5U4G I had kicking around in the garage ... really lifted performance substantially of the cheapo stock Russian 5ZB, which seems to weight about half as much as the vintage Sylvania. More of everything but particularly tone colour. It's way ahead of what I was getting from the EAR 512 phono section now.

Though a point of agreement - bass was an issue that the Audiopaxes - both Model 5 and L50 - cured at a stroke over the EAR 912, in articulation mainly but also in timbral accuracy and to some extent in depth. Actually I found that the Audiopaxes were giving me what I wanted from a passive, without the down-sides.

 

[VinylSavor]

I believe the Mayer phonos use the same Slagle discrete LR RIAA circuit.

No

 

[bazelio]

No

My mistake. Some time ago, I read on vinylsaviour: "The 600 Ohm LCR RIAA is built discretely, using intactaudio RIAA coils" and misremembered. The Emia is using a capacitorless filter. Now, I see more info here:

http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2011/09/cool-links-wwwintactaudiocom.html?m=1

 

[advanced101]

I have the EAR 868PL which I think is a great all in one unit for the price. The opinions on this thread made me think about the built-in SUTs being one of the limiting factors. I found a Music First V2 SUT for sale locally and picked it up. Big improvement over the SUTs in the EAR (Both running 1:20). I used to have the Music First (MFA) Classic V2 Preamp, I regret selling it. Next year Ill be looking for a quality Phono Stage and likely getting an MFA Preamp. Running a Koetsu Blue Lace on an Artisan Fidelity 301 Statement.

 

[SeagoatLeo]

The EAR 912 is an integrated EAR 868 line stage (same circuits) with a three-tube phono stage. Its phono stage is very similar to the circuit in the standalone 88pb EAR phono, but without the 4th buffer tube stage. I'm very familiar with all this equipment. Bonzo is absolutely correct in his assessment that the EAR line stage is its biggest weakness. The EAR phono stages, I'd rank as OK. That is, without the EAR line stage in play, an 88pb with Silver Emia (a combo I've tried extensively) is good but not great. I think the TDP wound transformers add a lot of color and veil. And depending on the 6922 tube of choice, more of the same.

I've also had the VdH Grail and silver Emia AVC in house for an extended demo. My personal favorite combo thus far, though, has been the Emia phono stage with D3a tubes and the Emia silver AVC. This is my long term winning combo as it does it all: PRaT, tone, soundstage, detail, dynamics.

Feel free to PM for more detailed info.

I have been looking into upgrading my pre-amp to an EAR 912 but then I read about the Townshend Alegri Reference autoformer preamp. It has twice the number of steps at .5 db and he designs great audio stuff (I own his sink for my turntable for 15 years and couldn't be without it). It costs twice as much as the Emia.