EMOTIVA amplifiers

[Phelonious Ponk]

I don't know that it is possible to talk about/describe/compare a product (in this case, specifically Emotiva) without talking about price. In another forum, I noted that I had recently purchased the newest Emotvia USB DAC and stated: "It may not compare favorably to the dCS $77,000 stack but it is an amazing piece". I compared it to a product that cost approximately 250 times as much and used the word "may" .

Nuance noted. At $77K, the DCS is so grossly overpriced for what it is and is meant to do that I cannot even take it seriously. Lots of varying mileage on that one, for sure.

Tim

 

[audioguy]

How is this for describing an Emotiva DAC? "It may or may not compare favorably to the dCS $77,000 stack but it is, in it's own right, an amazing piece. " I'm not sure how to not using pricing and compare products.

 

[mep]

Would you call a hafler dh-110 a reference pre-amplifer? Someone recently did on this forum.

Nope. I have said before that this is a lifeless, soulless, flat, and thin sounding preamp that I wouldn't recommend to anyone.

Is it indistinguishable, audibly, form units costing 80 times more.....maybe.....

Only if you are deafer than a post.

if one were not able to distinguish between it and a $35K unit, would we conclude that one were deaf, or their system not revealing enough, or that yes, it is?

It would be the first-they must be deaf.

If the same test was done, with the hafler guts inside the $35K unit and the $35K unit guts inside the hafler, and then the $35K unit sounded best, no one would have a thing to say about it.....thats our price bias going full tilt.

I would have something to say about it, and that would be that those who thought the DH 110 circuit sounded better than the $35K had hearing issues as well.

 

[Robh3606]

Hello mep

Am I reading your post right?? Seems to me you are just proving his point. Sure you may have an actual reference being the Halfler but why does the 35K Pre automatically have to be better. And please don't say well I have heard the Hafler. You sure as hell have not heard the 35k mystery preamp.

More money equals better all the time. Well the next time I buy a car I am not going to haggle about price. I paid more so it must be better than yours?

Rob

 

[mep]

Rob-I'm assuming the $35K preamp is more than just an expensive joke. Let's knock the price down to a well designed $5K preamp-same result. Let's knock it down further to an old Yamaha C2a-same result.

 

[Robh3606]

Or just drop a face plate on it as in OPPO-Lexicon $3000 extra for what??

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/...-ray-oppo-clone/oppo-inside-lexicon-outside-1

Rob

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

It is amazing but folks are conditioned (me too but less inclined in electronics since I know electronics) to think that more money equals more better. Even when we compare a known pre against an unknown make-believe one, the more expensive one wins. But although Mark stepped up to the plate, probably a huge majority here thought the same thing. Lets see now, is price bias part of expectation bias, or another one altogether different.

I think, in this hobby at least, price is the most powerful subset of expectation bias, though that's a guess. The hobby is a hotbed of expectation biases; price has lots of competition for the top spot.

Tim

 

[audioguy]

An interesting ad in the most recent Stereophile by Musical Surroundings. Q.P.R. = Quality Price Ratio signifies outstanding performance for a reasonable expenditure.

 

[WLVCA]

Very nice review with measurements of Emotiva's XSP-1 Balanced Stereo Preamplifier. I do own one of these preamps.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/prea...1-balanced-stereo-preamplifier/all-pages.html

 

[opus111]

Started reading - the BS detector went off in the second sentence. Balanced connections still add value even when the internal circuitry is single-ended. They've been used that way in professional audio for decades. That's because within the component's enclosure, there's very little chance of picking up noise, as compared to when the signal's carried over a long cable.

 

[microstrip]

Just learned something new about high quality audio objective testing reading this review:

"I saw the wall AC voltage drop here and there, indicating that the power amps were doing their thing with a lot of current".

 

[MrAcoustat]

Started reading - the BS detector went off in the second sentence. Balanced connections still add value even when the internal circuitry is single-ended. They've been used that way in professional audio for decades. That's because within the component's enclosure, there's very little chance of picking up noise, as compared to when the signal's carried over a long cable.

Please read carefully about the power of Emotiva.

Greetings all, I'm back with my tail between my legs and an apology to Mr Acoustat. I was running Emotiva XPA-1's and couldn't get my Model 3's to sound good at all. They sounded thin and weak and I could not turn up the volume or the amps would go into protection mode and kick off. He (and others) pointed out, and rightly so, the Acoustats need much current to operate correctly and the Emotivas were too puny. I took offense to his remarks and went off. Well after much soul searching, studying and discussions with others, the Emotivas are gone. In their place is a Hafler DH-500 amp topped off with an Audible Illusions Modulus 3 preamp.
The resultant sound is astounding! All the volume I'd ever care to apply, but the sound, WOW! Airy crystalline highs, detailed midrange, deep authoritative bass, layer upon layer of detail, a holographic soundstage with each instrument not just in its place side to side, but 3 dimensionally. The best I'd heard before this was a set of KLH Model 9's and to my ears the Acoustats easily best them.
All I can say is thanks for the advice, even though it was hard to swallow, the end result is nothing short of amazing! LONG LIVE ACOUSTATS!!

 

[opus111]

Please read carefully about the power of Emotiva.

Blatant OT plug.

 

[audioguy]

Very nice review with measurements of Emotiva's XSP-1 Balanced Stereo Preamplifier. I do own one of these preamps.

As do I.

My mains are not full range so I use subs. I wanted to use DiracLive from my music server but needed a way for bass management and found two 2 channel preamps that provided that capability - The XSP-1 at $900 and a Parasound P7 at $2000. With the Emotiva stuff holding resale value in case the product sucked, I had little to lose. It is way more than adequate for my purposes.

And to make matters even scarier, I sold my $4500 DAC/Power supply combination (Antelope Audio Zodiac Gold DAC + Voltikus PSU) and am using an Emotiva DAC as well for $400. Do I enjoy listening to my music any less? Not a bit. Does it sound as good. Nope but close enough and ended up with a bunch of money to buy more music.

The only thing I don't like about both of these Emotiva products is all of the blue lights. Someone must have had a deal on blue LEDS and Emotiva bought out the entire supply

Gotta love this hobby!!

 

[NorthStar]

Emotiva XPA-1L Monoblock power amp (Class A and Class AB) thread: http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=amps&action=display&thread=25855&page=34

* Page 34 is where the first member's (Dark Ranger) review starts (Reply #665 for a link to pictures, and Reply #666 for the beginning of the first review). Start reading there (if you feel like it) and then read on till the end (page 62). ...All the first 33 pages are just speculation and blah-blah-blah few specs here and there (don't bother).

______________

=> As an aside: http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=announcements&action=display&thread=30447

 

[audioguy]

Bob: I started where you suggested, read a few pages and skipped to the end, where, apparently, the issue had been addressed (I assume by Emotiva).

When I got my preamp from them, it was clear that the crossover was not working since no matter which cross over point I selected, the room response looked identical. After the initial responses from Emotiva of "that's not possible" and those from ignorant fan boys "you don't measure how the crossover is functioning that way", I was sent a replacement and it has worked flawlessly since. There area a lot of Emotiva happy customers because they provide great products at more than a reasonable price point with great customer service.

There are so many great ID companies out there and the ones that are very successful provide great customer service (e.g Seaton; Emotiva; SVS; Carada, etc). And when one is treated like a second class citizen in a brick-and-mortar store, (which still happens in a few stores if they can't see the Rolex on your arm), it provides more fuel for the shopper to look elswhere.

I'm not a fan-boy but I am a fan.

 

[NorthStar]

Audioguy,

1. Page 34 to page 62 are the totality representing that particular Emo amp.
I did not direct anyone to only one aspect of it.

2. That preamp review earlier (link from the prior page); I read it over at Secrets by J. E J. jr., and it's pretty good (good value, but still missing some of the essence).

3. This thread right here is about Emotiva amplifiers.
Once in a while we can talk about not directly other things, and that's fine by me; this is a forum, a discussion, and not a jail sentence.

4. I am very familiar with Emotiva, and many other things and places; some' good and some' bad everywhere in this world. Their amps have their fair share of ravings and issues as well.

5. Customer service and warranty are two things; quality control issues are another.
And also, promises of 'air', and detours to not attract the attention on real issues, are two more things.

6. ...The facts, the truth of the matter; the good with the bad, and not just one but both together for assessment of a fair balance and judgement.
We ain't talking SSPs, CD players, etc. here, but mainly amps and from Emotiva's related attention to control before, and after.

7. Last, Emo fan-boys; the last thing on Earth you can't relate on. ...Devoted advocates who will defend their master at any cost; even selling their soul to the devil.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

It's easy to understand Emotiva fanboys. Many have invested several thousand dollars in electronics that are widely believed, by their advocates, to be giant killers. Not just good for the money, but as good as anything out there in the same power range, regardless of price. They really want to believe that, of course. Can't blame them. And the stuff sounds good enough to make it very easy to believe. They're not that much different than many hobbyists who hold the same belief in their tubes or their Levinsons or their Krells. They just spend a lot less money to believe.

Tim

 

[NorthStar]

You got it Tim. ...And sometimes by becoming a fanboy of this company or that one, we are blindfolding ourselves to something better and more valuable.

We always have to keep our options open and always respect what's coming.

True, Emotiva is targeting the people on a beer budget; and all those cute little blue lights and heavy amps with a nice toroid inside inspire confidence. ...Even the lab tests are totally convincing.
And every company, not just Emotiva, have their fair share of issues.
..It just happened that I'm quite familiar with Emotiva products since their very first inception, and up to now; today.

But some of them over at the Lounge (Emo forum), are hardcore supporters; to the point of becoming quite annoying sometimes. ...And just too many threads were deleted over the years by them mods.
And much much more ....

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

You got it Tim. ...And sometimes by becoming a fanboy of this company or that one, we are blindfolding ourselves to something better and more valuable.

We always have to keep our options open and always respect what's coming.

True, Emotiva is targeting the people on a beer budget; and all those cute little blue lights and heavy amps with a nice toroid inside inspire confidence. ...Even the lab tests are totally convincing.
And every company, not just Emotiva, have their fair share of issues.
..It just happened that I'm quite familiar with Emotiva products since their very first inception, and up to now; today.

But some of them over at the Lounge (Emo forum), are hardcore supporters; to the point of becoming quite annoying sometimes. ...And just too many threads were deleted over the years by them mods.
And much much more ....

I'm not so sure, Bob. I've hung around here long enough that the believers have me convinced there can be audible differences between good amps of similar design. But I'm still not convinced those differences define better as much as they define different. And then there's that perception is reality thing. So maybe if you're a true brand fanboy, and you have yourself convinced that Brand X is as good as anything out there....maybe, for all practical purposes, it is. And maybe that's not closing your eyes to what's coming. Maybe that's...contentment. Maybe. Sometimes.

Tim