An evening with XVX/Gryphon/DCS/Air force 1

[LL21]

Hey Bonzo I'm not a classical music aficionado and so I apologize for not being able to answer your question. I wasn't really planning on posting about it here so I don't have video etc. I did screen shot some cuts I really enjoyed none of which were classical. My friend is a classical music fan and in fact bought the XVX/subsonic combo specifically for this application. He actually has Rockport Lyra/ D'Agostino relentless in another room for other music and an Avantgarde Trio set up disassembled in another.He thinks of speakers as tools for slightly different purposes. He loves all three for different reasons.

Fascinating...how does he compare the XVX and AG Trio and Lyra? Would love to learn how he thinks about each, and how he uses each for different kinds of musical experiences.

 

[JiminGa]

The AG Trios are currently disassembled i think because he's had to move so much around for his XVX set up. He listens to large symphonic works in the larger room with the XVX. Jazz , pop and most others he listens via the Lyra which is powered by D'Agostino Relentless.. They are in his"theater" which is somewhat smaller maybe 18x24 or so. A more intimate set up for sure. I'm certain anytime he wants a visceral thrill he cranks up the XVX/subsonic combo in the big room. With the subs on rock and roll is just awesome. With them off, for me, it's better via Lyra. I wonder how Lyra would sound with equivalent subs on Rock.

 

[LL21]

Very interesting to see Jacob Heilbrunn go from WAMM to AG Trio G3, and your friend disassemble this AG Trio to set up the XVX/Subsonics. Personally, at a very initial stage of having heard both speakers and owning the XLFs, I am inclined with the requisite room to go AG Trio over big Wilson, but I intend to listen to the AG Trios myself again. I have spoken with a few seasoned audiophiles who have suggested on their longer listening period with the Trios there can be a few things to listen for which bear careful consideration.

As for Lyras, I am a huge fan of Rockports...they do so many things so well. I do hope someday they will do with the Lyra what they did with the Arrakis/Altair (the Arrakis being effectively 2 Altairs, one inverted and placed on top of the other)...and create a mega flagship again. As for Lyra with subs, I think that would be amazing...its ultimate scale and sheer displacement I would query given the size of the Lyra. But in an 18 x 24 room can imagine it would be phenomenal.

 

[JiminGa]

I don't think he's going away from the Trios. Rockport is trying to figure out exactly how to top the Lyra. They built a prototype of an "Arrakis 3" but it was very expensive and wasn't better than Lyra. It was a very expensive lesson for them. They will do it one day but they would never share any details with me. I asked about "Arrakisizing" the Lyra or adding a sub tower or using the new 13 inch drivers for more heft. They just said "we have no shortage of ideas". As soon as something materializes I'll get up there for a listen. For now they are loving their Lynx. A great little speaker.

 

[LL21]

I don't think he's going away from the Trios. Rockport is trying to figure out exactly how to top the Lyra. They built a prototype of an "Arrakis 3" but it was very expensive and wasn't better than Lyra. It was a very expensive lesson for them. They will do it one day but they would never share any details with me. I asked about "Arrakisizing" the Lyra or adding a sub tower or using the new 13 inch drivers for more heft. They just said "we have no shortage of ideas". As soon as something materializes I'll get up there for a listen. For now they are loving their Lynx. A great little speaker.

Thank you...great insights. I would have been very surprised if he was going away from the Trios. That said, I do wonder if the sheer wallop of the XVX plus Subsonics is something that Todd SBNX will figure out as he experiments with the Purelow panel subs and his own AG Trio G3s..

As for Rockport, definitely look forward to that...I imagine they are working towards something that not only replicates the nuance of the Lyra with greater scale and power...but also something that actually exceeds the Lyra in its own strengths. THAT no doubt will take some doing...and THEN there is cost, practicality, shipping, etc.

As you kindly said, it would be great to hear as you learn more over time.

 

[sbo6]

I don’t think these blanket statements are helpful. It really depends on the reviewer. I have found that, with some exception, reviewers have more experience than the rest of the community.

I don’t think these blanket statements are helpful. It really depends on the audiophile. I have found that, with some exception, audiophiles have no skin in the game and are predominately more transparent than reviewers.

 

[Audiohertz2]

They are not mutually exclusive , lots of intellectual dishonesty between audiophiles supporting their own agenda and ego’s ..!

Reviewers are also Audiophiles BTW ...

 

[sbo6]

They are not mutually exclusive , lots of intellectual dishonesty between audiophiles supporting their own agenda and ego’s ..!

Reviewers are also Audiophiles BTW ...

Please tell me this is a joke, right?

 

[Audiohertz2]

Well if you laughed i guess it is ...

 

[sbo6]

 

[Al M.]

They are not mutually exclusive , lots of intellectual dishonesty between audiophiles supporting their own agenda and ego’s ..!

Yeah, I get that feeling too. Yet what may seem intellectual dishonesty may in many cases simply be strong bias. Humans are experts at being biased without even realizing it. And yes, ego is everywhere.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Food bad , Wife hideous , but never say anything negative about the system if you want to be invited back ..!

 

[Al M.]

Food bad , Wife hideous , but never say anything negative about the system if you want to be invited back ..!

Hehe, depends.

 

[treitz3]

I finally had the chance to listen to my friends set up which has been in the works for almost 2 years now. He built a 22 X 35 foot room on to his house specifically for this setup. As you can imagine a fully custom construction can run way over time and in this case it definitely did. All I can say is man it was worth it. I don't want to get onto any direct comparisons which might start a fight so I'm going to concentrate on other aspects of system design which come into play here. His set up includes: Wison XVX and dual Subsonic subwoofers. Gryphon Apex monos on the XVX and Gryphon Mephisto monos on the subs. Gryphon Commander preamp. DAgostino phono stage. Full DCS Vivaldi Apex stack. Tech Das Airfare One with Graham Phantom Elite 3 and Lyra Etna. Transparent Magnum Opus cables throughout. 3 Transparent power conditioners. Gryphon power zone. 5 top of the line HRS racks. The room uses RPG Bad panels, Modex plate and Vicoustic DC3 diffusers. I calculated about 2.1 million in equipment alone!
My first take away is that if you are going to choose to purchase XVX please don't shoe horn them into an undersized room. What these speakers do best is to produce an unparalleled scale of music reproduction which will fill the space all the way to the front wall behind them, to the ceiling and all the way to the sidewalls. Why constrict it if that is design intent of the manufacturer? In this case the soundstage was a good 10 feet deep and 20 feet wide. It is amazing for full orchestra or any reproduction of an event which covers that much ground. The soundstage is also quite tall so music comes at you as if from a stage above your head. This is awesome if that is the venue you are reproducing. Listening to Hugh Masekela " Coal Train" was a revelation. Now, unfortunately, you can't undo the scale. When listening to Sarah Vaughn "The very thought of you" and Shirley Horn "Beautiful Love" its a little strange when they are 8 feet tall. I also did not particularly care for Neil Young Live at Massey Hall which is a small venue solo acoustic show. The tonality, however, was excellent. Whether you love these speakers or not will depend upon the kind of music you listen to, the room they are in and the setup.
Subs vs no subs? If you want the full scale of an orchestra or you want to pound out some metal get the subs. Two of them. If you listen exclusively to acoustic jazz, vocalists or mostly lo fi music don't. You lose a little bit of the midrange purity. This set up was done by Peter and then tweaked by experts by the "Sumiko" method. Its an awesome dial. Mind blowing. We went back and forth with and without subs on multiple tracks. For my money I'd buy them and use them when called for. Scale and concussive force is what this is all about. If that's not your thing probably look elsewhere. If it is you've come to the right place. While on the subject of set up my feeling is that there are only a handful of people capable of getting the most out something like this. Spend the money and get someone like Stirling to dial it in. If you don't you'll never know what you're leaving on the table.
The importance of electronics. Wow. Just holy ____! Ive heard XVX with D'Agostino and to say the Gryphon Apex monos crush them is an understatement.. You will set your speakers on fire before you begin to touch the limits of these things. Just endless, pure, refined liquid power. Absolute resolution. Amazing.The Commander preamp is excellent. I'm sure Dartzeel or other fine preamps would work but there is a great synergy with the Gryphon combo. If you haven't heard the Apex do yourself a favor and seek out a listen. You will not be disappointed.
Analog vs digital. This was fun. The most important determination of which I liked better had more to do with the quality of the digital file and the Lp pressing. When fed excellent source material both are amazing. On balance the Air force one felt more relaxed and natural. This was evident especially on Dean Martin "If you were the only girl" where we had excellent recordings both ways. If you have one or the other I wouldn't sweat the differences. Done well they are both great.
Gryphons new power zone vs. Transparent Opus power conditioners. I couldn't switch them in and out. I can only tell you that he likes some things about each that he likes.He's still deciding.
Cables. Oh boy. 250k in cables. at least. I'm very familiar with transparent having owned XL and Magnum Opus. They are important and they do make a difference. I wouldn't necessarily go in this direction but they give a very controlled relaxed presentation. If you like this they may be for you. If not there are a lot of other great cables out there. Some far less costly.
Isolation. I used to be a real skeptic until I sat for several hours while one piece at a time was added. Now i couldn't do without it. HRS is expensive but they make a huge difference. The rack. The isolation platform. The feet. The dampeners. To me these are essential to getting the absolute most out of a system like this.
I had a great time listening to music for hours. Most of our time was spent exchanging musical choices occasionally punctuated by technical questions. I loved it. I'm going back in a few months to listen to some new things coming. Summarizing my thoughts about what I felt and learned: 1) match your speakers to your room. No square pegs in round holes. 2) pay to get the very best to nail the set up. It should take several days to do right. 3) Subs are awesome-sometimes 3) great digital and great analog are both great. It's about the recordings. Not everything has a great digital file. 4) All choices come with compromises. Choose the speakers which fit your listening preferences. Reproducing the scale of a full orchestra will not necessarily be optimal for small format recordings. 4) Not all amps are the same. Period. I don't care what ASR says. Go listen to Apex and let me know what you think. 5) Yes. Everything matters. The only question is how much and for how much. 6) isolation is not a tweek. Its important.
We all spend too much time trying to say what's best under all circumstances for all people. If you don't agree you are uninformed. That simply is not possible given that we all have our own path to happiness. All the gear choices we make are just tools to achieve that happiness. That said if you are a full orchestra fan or love bombastic concussive music I don't know how you'd top this though Its not for everyone. Its not about the XVX per se its about the system the room and the set up. Ive heard them sound distinctly average in other set ups but give them the room the set up and the electronics and its like opening a fire hose which previously was just trickling along. It is absolutely mind blowing. I think very few people actually know what the XVX is actually capable of. That includes 99% of owners. All of this is just my opinion. No offense intended. No hidden agenda. I just wanted to share my experience.

I finally had some time to catch up and read this thread. Jim, thanks for sharing. It sure is great when folks with systems like this share time with others in the hobby. I personally appreciate your time spent to offer your observations with your friends system.

Merry Christmas!

Tom