Entreq Tellus grounding

[jap]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8uGTOfmQjo

At about the 8 minute mark, Per-Olof Friberg first says there's a mineral mix in the boxes and when asked about the difference between them, says there's more silver in the sand.

I guess someone who wears two wrist watches has a better has a better sense of time.;-)

 

[spiritofmusic]

TBG, can you be a little more specific as to what you specify the main differences are btwn Entreq and Troy? It seems like you know pretty well, but are being a little obtuse. If there are some big engineering/materials contrasts, it would be good to know.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Jeez, that made for painful viewing LOL! Proof positive that the audio high end will never be as sexy as performance cars, high fashion, travel, jewellery, haute cuisine etc.
Tbh, putting both interviewer and interviewee into an English-language video where neither has English as a first language was always going to be a stilted nightmare .
Jap, I believe you have misinterpreted what Per-Olof stated (understandable, I was losing the will to live at this point!). He said "more silver in the sand". What he meant by this was not "the sand we use in the Silver Tellus has a higher silver content than the standard Tellus", which would be impossible, but that "the amount of silver wiring (alongside copper too) we incorporate within the Silver Tellus box w/sand packed around it, is higher than the amount of silver (and copper) we incorporate within the standard Tellus box". Ie not more silver content of the sand, more silver mass that the sand is packed around. It seems as I suspected Entreq Tellus is wooden boxes of densely packed minerals (sand) w/ever increasing Copper plates and silver wiring tightly packed into this mass as you go up the range to Silver Tellus, Atlantis etc.
TBG, as I said I don't doubt Troy uses materials that may be pricier/more suited/extravagant, and may perform better than Entreq (it ought to, at in Europe 2x the cost of Entreq) and you seem to know a lot more than we do, so how about a little more transparency? If you're sworn to secrecy by Miguel and cannot say, then it's mere conjecture saying Troy is better than Entreq based on design/materials. My thoughts are also conjecture, and if you read my words, I say "I suspect" etc, and never try to diss Troy.

 

[Orb]

Well at least you know what you have paid for , boxes filled with sand.
Keith.

Well I am a bit more open minded and see it as box filled with sand and specific minerals-particles; sand is not technically a mineral.... I think
Although sand usually is comprised of minerals that can be extracted, there are many sand types and some are rare.

Anyway I do not get too worried about it, because the box must have something like mud/sand/earth/etc for composition of the minerals/particles used.
Whether the materials/rarity and manufacturing costs equal fair ratio price of the product is a different matter, but that applies to all purchasable products whatever the market.

Cheers
Orb

 

[spiritofmusic]

Minerals, and not forgetting silver and copper.

 

[TBG]

TBG, can you be a little more specific as to what you specify the main differences are btwn Entreq and Troy? It seems like you know pretty well, but are being a little obtuse. If there are some big engineering/materials contrasts, it would be good to know.

All I really know is that there is more than just wire, although nothing has connection to the ac in the wall.

 

[Geardaddy]

So Entreq is a Swedish kitty box? The real question is its mechanism of action. I know of other manufacturers using quartz for EMI, RFI busting.

Speedskater, is this all placebo?

I have asked Miguel before as to whether he is using minerals (Entreq) or magnets (Rick Schutlz, High Fidelity) and he said no to both. I told him he needs to publish pics. He is considering it. He had two provisional patents related to his design but backed out due to concerns about intellectual thievery. Unless you have money to chase people, patents in audio are literally a license to steal.

 

[Geardaddy]

Absolutely true if the rods are installed incorrectly. That's why the Middle Atlantic paper is against Auxiliary or Supplemental Ground Rods.

This is true, Mother Earth's impedance is very close to zero Ohms. The big challenge is making a low impedance connect to Mother Earth. Even AM broadcast transmitting antenna system find this to be a problem. They have to use thousands of feet of buried copper radial wires to make a good connection.

True. Lyncole, the engineering company that I used for my ionic grounding system said as much. It is a challenge particularly with crappy soil like we have in NC.

 

[Geardaddy]

Another data point...a friend of mine has had a silver Tellus and 2 atlantis cables plugged into in Lamm ref (4 chassis) preamp for 3 days. He has ML3's powering his Verity Longrens. He also has a custom sub panel with a moat of custom ground rods surrounding his home. He was pleasantly surprised at the improvement in line with what myself and others are experiencing. This data point can put to rest that earth grounding does not accomplish what signal grounding does via Entreq.

Domenico... I'm sure you know who I am talking about.

Miguel has a customer who has a high end ionic grounding system and the Troy is additive. In fact, the Troy has far more impact. I have a dedicated ionic rod as well and it "seems" to have an effect.

 

[Geardaddy]

That same Middle Atlantic has impotent information presented as Myth Busting:

That little typo made me laugh. Much of the information from that sector is indeed impotent due to limitations of knowledge and measured variables. Audio is interesting because much of it as at the frontiers and can't be pigeon holed by a flatlanders 1950s manual.

That being said, Speedskater, what is the logic behind optimizing grounding schemes? I hear a lot about lowering impedance, noise, etc. What is it? What are these boxes doing if anything?

 

[TBG]

That little typo made me laugh. Much of the information from that sector is indeed impotent due to limitations of knowledge and measured variables. Audio is interesting because much of it as at the frontiers and can't be pigeon holed by a flatlanders 1950s manual.

That being said, Speedskater, what is the logic behind optimizing grounding schemes? I hear a lot about lowering impedance, noise, etc. What is it? What are these boxes doing if anything?

I've always wondered about "grounds" that don't go the earth ground. I once had two of the Acoustic Revive RGC-24 Grounding Conditioners. I found where the puck was placed to be very important but that overall their impact was slight.

 

[cuntigh]

Hello everybody

just arriving on the WBF. I am waiting for a Siler Tellus and Atlantis box with Atlantis earth to RCA cable. They will be home on monday. I deciced to make this try before reading this very long and interesting thread. Hope I won't be disapointed because I have big hopes on the Entreq gear and philosophy.
A few years ago I decided that the gear I already bought satisfied me, and going beyond that could be working "around that Stuff". Mainly on power, room correction and all that. I tried to avoid accessories that wouldn't have a strong effect on my system by judging on a as long as possible period of time and allways doing some back and forth tries.
Maybe Entreq is the last territoty I'll have to explore. Here in Europe they are less expansive than in USA but still not every pocket can buy. I very recently read some good things on Alan Maher working on ground. Does somebody compared Entreq and Alan Maher that are less expansive ?
Cuntigh

 

[Geardaddy]

Hello everybody

just arriving on the WBF. I am waiting for a Siler Tellus and Atlantis box with Atlantis earth to RCA cable. They will be home on monday. I deciced to make this try before reading this very long and interesting thread. Hope I won't be disapointed because I have big hopes on the Entreq gear and philosophy.
A few years ago I decided that the gear I already bought satisfied me, and going beyond that could be working "around that Stuff". Mainly on power, room correction and all that. I tried to avoid accessories that wouldn't have a strong effect on my system by judging on a as long as possible period of time and allways doing some back and forth tries.
Maybe Entreq is the last territoty I'll have to explore. Here in Europe they are less expansive than in USA but still not every pocket can buy. I very recently read some good things on Alan Maher working on ground. Does somebody compared Entreq and Alan Maher that are less expansive ?
Cuntigh

Maher is a good name to add to the equation. He has been on the cutting edge of woo woo audio for a long time. I have dialogued with a disciple or two in the past on Audiogon who rave about his stuff. Worth a conversation and/or demo. Would be interested to hear what you find out....

 

[TBG]

TBG, can you be a little more specific as to what you specify the main differences are btwn Entreq and Troy? It seems like you know pretty well, but are being a little obtuse. If there are some big engineering/materials contrasts, it would be good to know.

Two thing are evident. One the Tripoint has an earth ground and unplugging it largely stops the benefit. Two hearing what Friberg actually said. See: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T8uGTOfmQjo. He says sand with copper or silver mixed in. How is this a ground? As I have said I have used the Acoustic Revive unit with some modest improvement.

All that I'm saying is that the two units are not the same technology. I have never seen the inside of either unit.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Reading btwn the lines TBG, you are saying Entreq and Acoustic Revive are analogous? The latter being sand/silver-copper mix, like Silver Tellus? Do you have ANY ideas what Troy comprises?

 

[Orb]

Two thing are evident. One the Tripoint has an earth ground and unplugging it largely stops the benefit. Two hearing what Friberg actually said. See: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T8uGTOfmQjo. He says sand with copper or silver mixed in. How is this a ground? As I have said I have used the Acoustic Revive unit with some modest improvement.

All that I'm saying is that the two units are not the same technology. I have never seen the inside of either unit.

Remember one is about chassis ground (Tripoint) and the other is about signal reference ground (Entreq).

Cheers
Orb

 

[Orb]

One sand the other cat litter?
Keith

Well at least cat litter has minerals so better than sand
I liked your post but could not resist
Cheers
Orb

 

[cuntigh]

Hello keith
What interest in saying (and staying) such things on this thread ? Are you looking to educate us ?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Cuntigh, don't bother responding to Purite. I offered him the chance to run a blinded trial on Entreq, in any way he saw fit, and he point blank IGNORED me. Anyone so energetic and motivated to reveal a so-called sham would have jumped at the chance. Not Purite, who just sees fit to snipe from the sidelines. I see you're from France. Well, Purite is the worst kind of English skeptic, happy to tear things down but when given the chance to really have something concrete to say, resorts to cheap jibes.
Purite, everyone on this thread is aware I offered you a chance to really demonstrate placebo/expectation bias re my Entreq rig in any way you saw fit, and you couldn't even muster the enthusiasm to travel the 4 miles to my home to conduct the blinded trial. When you address this refusal publicly, maybe you can be taken seriously.
Btw, I have subsequently done an a-b on Entreq in and out of the system many times now w/friends who aren't even audiophiles, blinded w/no chance of them knowing if it was in and out of the system, and in over a dozen occasions there was a 100% hit rate. A bit more than just placebo I think.
The only subject that didn't register a preference was my GF's cat who was too busy scratching around in the litter tray !

 

[LL21]

Cuntigh...I see you're from France...I have subsequently done an a-b on Entreq in and out of the system many times now w/friends who aren't even audiophiles, blinded w/no chance of them knowing if it was in and out of the system, and in over a dozen occasions there was a 100% hit rate. A bit more than just placebo I think.
The only subject that didn't register a preference was my GF's cat who was too busy scratching around in the litter tray !

I hear good things about Entreq's popularity in France. And yes, i have done a few tests with non-audiophile friends from time to time when auditioning something. My friends who used to club a lot and really care about music were definitive in being able to blindly tell in A/B and also tell their preference. Not particularly scientific, but good fun nevertheless. The last time was a powercable on my sub. 'Dont even think about it...just get it...its not close...' was the last comment i believe. have not done on the grounding stuff, but the difference is far more remarkable than the sub powercable ever was.