Entreq Tellus grounding

[Geardaddy]

Geardaddy, tbh there is sufficient conjecture whether ANY of this stuff, Entreq and/or Troy is a "true" ground, if you look at the posts that talk about safety/ground rods install etc. And whether any of this even measures as "better" rather than being the stereotypical subjective experience. Ever since the bias on "does it measure?" came up, no-one has run w/it. But since Entreq have deemed it appropriate to market their wares as grounding, who am I to stir it?
And frankly I've wasted enough time defending the Entreq gear from sniping of the worst kind, so that's my energies taken up.
But knock y'self out if you can: 1. PROVE Troy is indeed grounding by definition and is unambiguously so (at least to shut up the measurements/ground-ionic rod/safety ground crowds). 2 can prove Entreq definitely isn't grounding 3. can take all this beyond the realm of confusion by going stage by stage thru a detailed analysis of what constitutes Troy and exactly how it works (no chance this side of the end of the world by Global Warming, that Miguel or Per Olof will open up even an iota about how their stuff really works).

Just ask him. I am not asking measurements but theory. One paradoxical element of this is that Entreq is probably far more profitable per box than Tripoint. Miguel's take-home profit is less than you might think due to extreme fabrication cost. So in addition to be a gentleman farmer and renaissance man, Per-Olof appears to be quite a shrewd businessman.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Happy Christmas to our one-man, self-appointed moral police force. You must be SO disappointed that more people (not even one) aren't as equally vocal re your dissing of all things Entreq/Troy. Meow!!!

 

[Barry2013]

I made my first listenning yesterday at night with only the S' Tellus for the moment and I have not been impressed that much. It seems the scene is better with more depth, a bit more presence on the instruments, maybe a little bit more purity ?
I'll have to do more listenning in the next few days as maybe the Entreq need more time to settle in my system. After that I'll have to disconnect and see what's happen.

That is a bit surprising but it may be that it needs more time to settle into your system.
Another possible explanation is that the Atlantis is not the best system match. It can be system dependent. If it does not improve I suggest you try an Apollo earth lead, which can work better in some systems, before coming to any final conclusions. With Entreq earth cables the most expensive is not always the best.
Do let us know how it goes.

 

[LL21]

I made my first listenning yesterday at night with only the S' Tellus for the moment and I have not been impressed that much. It seems the scene is better with more depth, a bit more presence on the instruments, maybe a little bit more purity ?
I'll have to do more listenning in the next few days as maybe the Entreq need more time to settle in my system. After that I'll have to disconnect and see what's happen.

Hmmm...it may well be that your system does not benefit that much from the Entreq? I see you have quite a carefully designed setup. In any event, how have you set up your Entreq? To which component is it attached? Hope tomorrow brings better results. It will also be interesting after you remove it.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Mssr. C, I'm one of the few, if only one here, that DIDN'T get on w/Atlantis ground lead &/or Atlantis add-on box. I found that at the time when I had 3 components grounded via Apollo leads to my S. Tellus, and everything was singing, the substitution of an Atlantis ground lead really brought the sound down, a sort of warmth/cloudiness ensued, a little like an overly coloured tube amp. Adding the Atlantis Tellus add-on box confused things further, even when going back to Apollo ground lead. But removing Atlantis box, and reverting to all-Apollos reintroduced the smile to my face. Go figure!
So, my advice before you draw a "meh" conclusion, is to request an Apollo ground lead, just ground the preamp via it, and use Silver Tellus solely w/no Atlantis add-on box linked in. If you don't get on w/this, just an example of YMMV, and lots of cash saved as you spend on something else.

 

[cuntigh]

Hello
At that time the Atlantis box is not connected yet. This morning I saw the Atlantis cable crossed some other interconects and was near a power cable. So I made the decision ( I know I'll have to wait another settle in again), to disconnect tha Atlantis cable and re route (is that good English speaking ?) for avoiding all possible crossed contamination.
No fast conclusion to do. Only carefull setting for realizing the full potential of the thing. I have a 6 weeks trial, so no stress at all, and if things don't go better I'll ship them back and refund my money.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Good thinking. My suggestion is to acquire an Apollo ground lead, and then you will have Silver Tellus, Atlantis Tellus add-on box, Apollo ground lead, and Atlantis ground lead. I would choose ONE component to ground, and make your decision purely based on this component's performance, grounded v non-grounded.
My vote is to just ground the preamp. This seems to be the biggest Bang-For-Buck/-Franc/-Euro LOL!!! possibility, Entreq know this too, since they're releasing the Olympos Minimus box esp just to ground preamps.
Keep the ground boxes away from other components, and ground leads from crossing themselves and other cables and off the floor.
Start by grounding the preamp using Silver Tellus box and Apollo cable. Check performance up to 48 hrs after install, then disengage, and compare non-grounded. Start over again, now substituting Atlantis lead for the Apollo. Go thru the same comparison from 48 hrs. Then Atlantis add-on box and Atlantis lead. Then Atlantis box and Apollo cable. Then back to Silver Tellus only and Apollo. Then back to tot non-grounded. That's 6 situations, 12 days.
My conclusion was to stick w/Silver Tellus and Apollo. Most everyone else loves the Atlantis box/Atlantis ground leads. Some don't get on w/it at all. Post your conclusions.

 

[spiritofmusic]

$50k for a wooden box filled with kitty litter !
Keith.

Hey Purite, I've been twiddling my thumbs today, so I thought I would connect my hifi thru my GF's cat's litter tray hoping to get good results. Nope, not hearing anything good at all, made worse by the cat scratching around and INCREASING noise, somehow the OPPOSITE of Entreq's litter tray. Could JUST be that SOMETHING else is going on w/my own personal Entreq litter tray. Maybe just something.

 

[spiritofmusic]

You may think I'm having problems taken in by sham, but I think you're having problems w/the English Language, Keith. I've done an unsighted test several times now, and had a 100% hit rate, w/unsighted visitors EASILY telling the differences, as well as me. How many more times am I going to have to state this? Or are you going to ask me to keep on doing the test again even 'though I say I have done it, and the results are unanimously positive?
When are you publicly going to explain why you have point blank refused to do the test at my place y'self despite hammering on re the need to do it?
Let me guess. YOU "know" it's all foo, so YOU don't NEED to take up the offer. Others can do it. If these others find benefit, they're prone to sham. BUT...it will have been done blinded. Only YOU "know" THE TRUTH. Which makes you a perfect subject to reveal the sham. But YOU WON'T do the trial. Just shout "sham" from the sidelines, even 'though someone SO sure of himself could have put the subject to bed by driving 30mins to my place, running the blinded trial ANY WAY YOU DEEMED FIT, drove 30mins to get home, and then embarrassed me online w/the "inevitable" outcome.

 

[LL21]

Why don't you open up the expensive litter box and take a photograph, or better still ask someone to remove it from your system ( shouldn't be difficult it isn't connected to anything is it) while you remain unsighted!
Keith.

I've done it. And NO ONE even knew it...the cable had come undone overnight. I turned on the system and was hoping it was warm up...after 30 minutes i started looking around...needs retubing? It sounded like i was playing from my dvd player...

...looked in the back to see if something was wrong...disconnected ground cable...

 

[TBG]

It has to have been used, no doubt.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

it's been a busy couple of weeks being out of town and the Holidays and all so finally Monday night I had a chance to try the 2 Eartha Apollo 1.65m cables on the unused RCA outputs of my Playback Designs MPS-5 player/dac connected to the Silver Tellus along with the Eartha Atlantis cables on the dart pre.

I have been running the 2 Eartha Atlantis 1.65m cables from the Silver Tellus to 2 unused RCA inputs on my dart pre for 3-4 weeks now to good effect.....the process so far described in the thread posts referenced below.

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...llus-grounding&p=294729&viewfull=1#post294729

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...llus-grounding&p=294847&viewfull=1#post294847

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...llus-grounding&p=295167&viewfull=1#post295167

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...llus-grounding&p=295728&viewfull=1#post295728

after my negative experience inserting the single Eartha Atlantis cable on the digital I did not really know what I could expect.

when I inserted the 2 Apollos Monday night it seemed immediately subtly better. but I just kept listening that night, then yesterday morning and last night. now this morning I've pulled out my reference cuts and my perceptions are being re-inforced. it's clear that my digital is some better, and I've not noticed any reduction in performance on the vinyl or tape.

I'd simply say that so far the additive effect is a notch or notch and a half less than the effect of the Silver Tellus-Eartha Atlantis on the dart pre. So it's pretty subtle but I'm liking it a lot.

things are simply slightly more vivid and there is a bit more energy and dynamic and tonal intensity. the music seems a bit more real and less reproduced. voices that might have been borderline strident previously come a degree more clear and natural, more analog like. a small but noticeable benefit.

we'll see how I feel after another week or so. this is just a step down the path.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I have run the unsighted trial as you specify it, Keith. Several times. W/visitors unsighted. And w/me unsighted. The result is always the same, at least a dozen occasions now where the effects of Entreq are detected, and it's absence detected. The a-b's were conducted w/the subject out of the room, Entreq connected and disconnected/or vice versa, always w/the subject out of the room, w/no clue visual or verbal to the subject on status of grounding upon subject reentering the room. Music listened to for 2-3 songs, and a preference for the sound noted. My colleagues, and me, made correct calls re Entreq in and out, and music was invariably preferred w/Entreq in the system.
I graciously offered you the chance to do the very same, and you ignored the offer, and have trolled on this thread ever since.
It is not reasonable to just peddle a party line w/no response to me challenging you directly. If you continue to do so, I will complain to the forum organisers that you are displaying deliberately goading behaviour.
I can't keep repeating myself verbatim over and over and over to you re your taunts, but you are not going to exclude me from my own thread, so post-Xmas I never respond to you again.

 

[TBG]

Not quite the same thing unfortunately, you just need to sit ,unsighted ,initially unknowing whether the unit is connected or not, and see whether you can detect any difference while the unit is connected/unconnected.
It should be extremely straightforward as there is no electrical connection, so no need to switch off any component.
Keith.

But there is the issue of how quickly the effect appears and disappears. In the case of the High Fidelity cables, moving the wires take settling down time and endures briefly when removed. There is also the question of the portion of the brain when focused on hearing differences and when relaxing to music.

It is not easy to experiment with audio or other "taste" decisions. Also since people like what they like, double blind or just blind tests have no meaning. When Pepsi ran taste tests against Coke, Coke discovered that sweetness was the key as to why Pepsi won and came out with the "new" Coke. It was a disaster for them. Pepsi can continue to find that Coke drinkers might say Pepsi tastes best but will continue to buy Coke.

Objectivists will never win, as most of us win ignore them. I bet you never experimented with toilet papers choices or have a clue why you buy what you do.

 

[TBG]

I have run the unsighted trial as you specify it, Keith. Several times. W/visitors unsighted. And w/me unsighted. The result is always the same, at least a dozen occasions now where the effects of Entreq are detected, and it's absence detected. The a-b's were conducted w/the subject out of the room, Entreq connected and disconnected/or vice versa, always w/the subject out of the room, w/no clue visual or verbal to the subject on status of grounding upon subject reentering the room. Music listened to for 2-3 songs, and a preference for the sound noted. My colleagues, and me, made correct calls re Entreq in and out, and music was invariably preferred w/Entreq in the system.
I graciously offered you the chance to do the very same, and you ignored the offer, and have trolled on this thread ever since.
It is not reasonable to just peddle a party line w/no response to me challenging you directly. If you continue to do so, I will complain to the forum organisers that you are displaying deliberately goading behaviour.
I can't keep repeating myself verbatim over and over and over to you re your taunts, but you are not going to exclude me from my own thread, so post-Xmas I never respond to you again.

You better be careful about what you complain about. Oh and is "My colleagues and I."

 

[bonzo75]

But there is the issue of how quickly the effect appears. In the case of the High Fidelity cables, moving the wires take settling down time and endures briefly when removed. There is also the question of the portion of the brain when focused on hearing differences and when relaxing to music.

It is not easy to experiment with audio or other "taste" decisions. Also since people like what they like, double blind or just blind tests have no meaning. When Pepsi ran taste tests against Coke, Coke discovered that sweetness was the key as to why Pepsi won and came out with the "new" Coke. It was a disaster for them. Pepsi can continue to find that Coke drinkers might say Pepsi tastes best but will continue to buy Coke.

Objectivists will never win, as most of us win ignore them. I bet you never experimented with toilet papers choices or have a clue why you buy what you do.

While I disagree with Keith, I don't think your examples are valid. What you quote are low involvement products, while hifi is a high involvement product in terms of money and time. I could care less what the difference is between Pepsi and Coke and why I drink it, or why I use Colgate over Aquafresh. I do care that the toilet paper is not abrasive. In hifi, it matters a lot, the difference, unlike between the above products, and I will test them out properly, both over the short term and the long term. I like to pick products where I don't have to struggle to hear a positive difference.

 

[spiritofmusic]

TBG, haha, it's a long time since I was at school. I've already complained re Keith's "psychic healing" video post. Tbh, I'm sick and tired of repeating that I've acceded to Keith's idea, he has ignored it, and still bleats it has to be done. There has to be a point where he answers a direct question. I can tell you for a fact this is Keith's style. Even when I was made an offer by him to buy a pair of his Chopins, and I offered to help move them (they're not light) to prevent damage, the offer mysteriously disappeared and no amount of follow-up qs ever got to the bottom of why the offer was withdrawn.
So, I see now asking qs does not have the usual effect, i.e. attempt at an answer. No. It provokes a verbatim repeat of the original criticism. This tactic cannot be countered by the questioner.
I suspect it's a psychological ploy to make him appear urbane, civilised, scientific, calm and collected, and the responding "sham"-victim/peddler look more and more unreasonable as he fires off more and more heated emotional retorts.
There is no doubt anyone new to the thread looking at our discourse would conclude I'm an angry unreasonable so-and-so, and Keith is the purveyor of order and calm.
That's why I need to leave it to others to bat on Entreq's behalf against Keith, who can keep their cool and argue more dispassionately than me.
I just find it deeply hilarious that noone other than Keith has taken up his mantle, not even Gary Protein, who I know would at least have the civility to answer my points even if he indeed felt something like Entreq was questionable.

 

[Joe Pittman]

'how quickly the effect appears' ,it is supposed to be a grounding device, how long does a ground loop take to disappear once you lift an earth?
Keith

I think Keith's thinking of ground resistance and ground loops is too simplified. I suspect there are other factors that also contribute to the grounding effect, such as electrostatic fields, which may take time to fully build-up and dissipate (discharge). As a consultant specializing in industrial facility design, I've worked on a number of advanced manufacturing facilities. Semi-conductor and surface mount production for example will frequently require considerable attention to electrostatic fields as well as EMI/RFI radiation. To reduce/eliminate electrostatic fields on the floor I have specified special floor materials which conduct static electricity and are sealed with a special wax treatment. In addition, the systems require grounding points at frequent intervals. Some equipment and entire rooms have been enclosed in specially designed totally enclosed (true) Faraday cages to shield the equipment from other equipment. Workers wear special clothing and wear grounding straps on their wrists which are attached to special isolated ground systems. All I am suggesting here is that there are probably good scientific explanations for what we hear in hi-end audio, but we would need a DARPA budget to do it right.

 

[Orb]

I am in two minds linking this YouTube vid as some may take the context too far, but it does show one cannot assume anything regarding ground and signal quality.
Please note this is not specifically associated with audio.

Link to owner: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiqd3GLTluk2s_IBt7p_LjA

Cheers
Orb

 

[TBG]

'how quickly the effect appears' ,it is supposed to be a grounding device, how long does a ground loop take to disappear once you lift an earth?
Keith

I didn't realize that there were objectivists only on grounding issues.