Esoteric Grandioso T1 turntable arrives; G1X Master Clock coming.
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
- Start date
Can we stop asking questions on AS2000 and nothing rack here? Peter has made it very clear that he is not in liberal to share David’s knowledge in various threads in this forum. If someone is interested in Nothing Rack, maybe email David directly.
Another question for Peter is that whether David told you all business transactions and enquiries from customers or potential customers to you. You seem to be David’s business spokesperson in here. I found it is very odd that you question Mike whether he has any intention to buy Nothing Rack. Did David tell you it is not true that Mike never checked with David on Nothing Rack. Otherwise, what circumstances make you question Mike?
Another question for Peter is that whether David told you all business transactions and enquiries from customers or potential customers to you. You seem to be David’s business spokesperson in here. I found it is very odd that you question Mike whether he has any intention to buy Nothing Rack. Did David tell you it is not true that Mike never checked with David on Nothing Rack. Otherwise, what circumstances make you question Mike?
What part of Mike’s clear and unequivocal comment do you not understand ?
” i almost bought a Nothing Rack; not once, but twice. “
“ David did not agree to cancel the Nothing stands order. They are on consignment with him “
Some historical reasons as to why Esoteric (Teac) would use partial magnetic levitations, and who they may have been inspired by.
www.diyaudio.com
www.diyaudio.com
www.diyaudio.com
Interesting turntables.
Don't want to mix up 'Restoring and Improving A Thorens TD-124 MKII' thread I request mods to move unrelated posts here if possible. For a start this grabbed my attention just for sheer looks.Pye achiphon I think the record player inside is BSR. Do share if you find any quality turntable or...
Interesting turntables.
Don't want to mix up 'Restoring and Improving A Thorens TD-124 MKII' thread I request mods to move unrelated posts here if possible. For a start this grabbed my attention just for sheer looks.Pye achiphon I think the record player inside is BSR. Do share if you find any quality turntable or...
Magnetic turntable bearing
That design works by creating an eddy current in the copper ring, which in turn creates a magnetic field that is the opposite of the permanent magnet field. High rpm is needed to get a sufficiently strong effect to create a strong enough repulsive force to act as a bearing. However, if you were...
wow!!!Some historical reasons as to why Esoteric (Teac) would use partial magnetic levitations, and who they may have been inspired by.
Interesting turntables.
Don't want to mix up 'Restoring and Improving A Thorens TD-124 MKII' thread I request mods to move unrelated posts here if possible. For a start this grabbed my attention just for sheer looks.Pye achiphon I think the record player inside is BSR. Do share if you find any quality turntable or...Interesting turntables.
Don't want to mix up 'Restoring and Improving A Thorens TD-124 MKII' thread I request mods to move unrelated posts here if possible. For a start this grabbed my attention just for sheer looks.Pye achiphon I think the record player inside is BSR. Do share if you find any quality turntable or...Magnetic turntable bearing
That design works by creating an eddy current in the copper ring, which in turn creates a magnetic field that is the opposite of the permanent magnet field. High rpm is needed to get a sufficiently strong effect to create a strong enough repulsive force to act as a bearing. However, if you were...
great addition to the thread. thank you!
I am neither Agreeing nor Disagreeing…. Merely quoting the facts as relayed to us by the party that does know.
Thank you for sharing the links with invaluable information. Much appreciated.Some historical reasons as to why Esoteric (Teac) would use partial magnetic levitations, and who they may have been inspired by.
Interesting turntables.
Don't want to mix up 'Restoring and Improving A Thorens TD-124 MKII' thread I request mods to move unrelated posts here if possible. For a start this grabbed my attention just for sheer looks.Pye achiphon I think the record player inside is BSR. Do share if you find any quality turntable or...Interesting turntables.
Don't want to mix up 'Restoring and Improving A Thorens TD-124 MKII' thread I request mods to move unrelated posts here if possible. For a start this grabbed my attention just for sheer looks.Pye achiphon I think the record player inside is BSR. Do share if you find any quality turntable or...Magnetic turntable bearing
That design works by creating an eddy current in the copper ring, which in turn creates a magnetic field that is the opposite of the permanent magnet field. High rpm is needed to get a sufficiently strong effect to create a strong enough repulsive force to act as a bearing. However, if you were...
Actually I used Fisher turntable with a 120 pole motor mentioned in one of the pages you linked. I remembered when I saw the picture.
It was branded as Fisher and a shitty turntable as far as I remember
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No. They are well-respected products in the audio marketplace. We should be able to discuss any audio product and ask questions about its features. Most/all manufacturers have trade secrets -- so what. Advocating discussion censorship is wrong.
Peter, instead of making up an excuse and trying to wriggle off your own hook, the correct answer would've been: "Sorry Ron, you're right. I violated my own rule."
this line of comments started when i mentioned a $50k price point for the Nothing Rack. but i could have made the same point at $35k, or $40k or $45k for the Nothing Rack. in my discussions with David my understanding was that just like the AS-2000 there was a list price, and one i would pay, with the Nothing Rack at a lower point than $50k when i bought the package. i did not just make that up.
no way i wanted to get into that with you, but it is certainly my right to talk about it. regardless of your indignant reaction. you have now made this a crusade, and it's not really helping things.
i have never said one derogatory comment about my dealings with David or his products. ever. and i don't have any negative feelings regarding that. why try to make my comment more than it was? Phoenix Engineering, who is aligned with David on the AS-2000 to one degree of another, came into this thread and is not neutral. he is a manufacturer of tt related products commenting on the tech of a competitor. a product i own. it's entirely apropriate for me to use one of the products he is aligned with in my response to him. he is questioning the value of the Esoteric Clock, and i responded.
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Mike-
Allow me to correct some misdirection on your part: I do not mfr TT related products; I closed down commercial operations at the end of 2016. I retired from my first company in 2010 and regretted coming out of retirement in 2014 to mfr power supplies for TTs. Since then, I have devoted my efforts to the DIY space (DIYAudio.com ) for which I receive zero compensation. I've also worked with DDK on a motor controller for which I also have no commercial interest. I've done design work for SOTA Sound Inventions as well as other mfrs both within and outside the audio industry and receive no remuneration. I obviously still have an interest in the technology and at the risk of sounding immodest, feel that I can contribute to the conversation when others have questions that are not being addressed, as was the case in this thread.
How am I not neutral? Are you suggesting that anyone with industry experience is incapable of objective commentary? I thought the price discrepancy between the G1X and generic clock sources was extraordinary; I'm familiar with these products as they are used extensively in my prior line of work (land mobile radio and test equipment). Your comment about The Nothing Rack is a non-sequitur; it has nothing to do with clock sources. If your intent was to point out what you consider exorbitant pricing, you failed to provide specific examples of cheaper products with higher specs. The Amazon clock source cost 0.06% of the G1X but has higher published specs; are there any equipment racks that cost $30 with better performance than The Nothing Rack? Perhaps you were just taking a cheap shot at David or myself? I suspect that Peter felt you were doing this as well.
I'm always interested in how certain markets operate and the audio industry is one of the most baffling. Your comments dismissing the lower priced clock source as not worth pursuing followed by a post reporting your being "all in" on maximizing the performance of the G1X by buying a very expensive (IMHO) coaxial cable has me completely flummoxed. The Omega Clock 50 is a 4ft cable that sells for $4700 MSRP; a $10 piece of RG174 cable would show no measurable difference at the frequency and length involved in this application. You are contemplating upgrading to this cable in hopes that it will further improve an already impressive set up, yet spending $17 on a putatively higher spec clock source is a bridge too far? Can you help me out here Mike?
Allow me to correct some misdirection on your part: I do not mfr TT related products; I closed down commercial operations at the end of 2016. I retired from my first company in 2010 and regretted coming out of retirement in 2014 to mfr power supplies for TTs. Since then, I have devoted my efforts to the DIY space (DIYAudio.com ) for which I receive zero compensation. I've also worked with DDK on a motor controller for which I also have no commercial interest. I've done design work for SOTA Sound Inventions as well as other mfrs both within and outside the audio industry and receive no remuneration. I obviously still have an interest in the technology and at the risk of sounding immodest, feel that I can contribute to the conversation when others have questions that are not being addressed, as was the case in this thread.
How am I not neutral? Are you suggesting that anyone with industry experience is incapable of objective commentary? I thought the price discrepancy between the G1X and generic clock sources was extraordinary; I'm familiar with these products as they are used extensively in my prior line of work (land mobile radio and test equipment). Your comment about The Nothing Rack is a non-sequitur; it has nothing to do with clock sources. If your intent was to point out what you consider exorbitant pricing, you failed to provide specific examples of cheaper products with higher specs. The Amazon clock source cost 0.06% of the G1X but has higher published specs; are there any equipment racks that cost $30 with better performance than The Nothing Rack? Perhaps you were just taking a cheap shot at David or myself? I suspect that Peter felt you were doing this as well.
I'm always interested in how certain markets operate and the audio industry is one of the most baffling. Your comments dismissing the lower priced clock source as not worth pursuing followed by a post reporting your being "all in" on maximizing the performance of the G1X by buying a very expensive (IMHO) coaxial cable has me completely flummoxed. The Omega Clock 50 is a 4ft cable that sells for $4700 MSRP; a $10 piece of RG174 cable would show no measurable difference at the frequency and length involved in this application. You are contemplating upgrading to this cable in hopes that it will further improve an already impressive set up, yet spending $17 on a putatively higher spec clock source is a bridge too far? Can you help me out here Mike?
@Phoenix Engineering, here is a video showing a very interesting effect on the platter during start up. Go to the 8:00 mark. Is this the kind of behavior that the clock is meant to address? The effect is very pronounced during start up and hard to see at faster speeds but it still must be occurring unless corrective measures are taken. At what point does this become less audible?
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You have a more docile approach than I do, but I echo your observations in your post and your sense of being dumbfounded by the gullibility of some here. I have my opinion, that it is mostly about vanity and panache and nothing else. Pride of ownership and insecurities blur the vision and impair the intellect and common sense.
Peter-
I've seen this video before and the back and forth at start up that you called attention to. I don't think that is cogging. Originally, I thought it was a phenomenon that occurs with 3 phase motors at start up due to the position of the motor's rotor being unknown, but that is usually much shorter lived (less than 1 rev of the motor). I'm not sure what is occurring in the video; the platter is supposed to move synchronously with the motor and it almost appears that synch is temporarily lost and the motor attempts to re-establish lock which would be a sensible thing to do. I don't think anything like this is happening once the platter is up to speed. It might be a good question for the mfr in any case.
I don't think it is a question of the motor trying to overcome the platter's (substantial) inertia as the motor starts at a very slow speed and ramps up and it does not seem to have trouble moving the platter.
A different clock source should have no effect on this. For reasons I touched on previously, it's difficult to explain any rational benefit to a more accurate or stable clock source over the VCTCXO that is standard equipment with the table as even a cheap, uncompensated crystal oscillator will be orders of magnitude more stable than the table's published W&F spec, which is already quite good.
The effect of lobing force application on the platter drive is rather apparent at ~8:40+ in the video, when the massive platter is starting up from dead stop. Yes, this affect has to be present even at speed. The only question is how significant is it's impact at that speed with that platter mass, etc. It does make the engineer in me think.
I've heard this table in action, and it sounded amazing. Would a "lobeless" drive sound even better? Are there motor approaches that are free from lobing affects?
So why do you keep talking about my transactions with David?
Ron, I have deleted all posts mentioning ddk, his products, his business, and his location with the exception of those that I can no longer edit. I hereby request that as a WBF co-owner that you with the moderators' help please delete all of my posts in this thread and the "Make WBF better" thread" discussing ddk and the subsequent posts that quote my posts. This will assure no current mention by me of ddk or related topics. No one wants to read them, but I can not now go back to delete them.
We now are back on topic discussing this interesting new turntable and its technology. I am curious about what Mike and others hear when altering the distance between the drive wheel and the platter. What does one hear when making this adjustment when say listening to piano music for instance? I wonder if it is similar to adjusting the tension on a belt or thread drive system which I have observed and described.
Why are you attempting to censure posts submitted by other forum members … rhetorical question of course !
It does appear to be some form of cogging, but the rate of oscillations doesn't look right. If it were the rotor/platter interface cogging, it would occur at every "tooth" which would be much more often than what I see to be ~20° per oscillation. If it were the motor cogging, it would be even finer and IME, not visible to the naked eye (the plots I posted previously show no visible signs of oscillations, they are only detectable using an optical encoder). What ever it is appears to diminish as the speed increases, but I wonder how low it is at operating speed?
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