Esoteric P03 & D03 vs K07xs or K05xs

[Big Dog RJ]

Big Dog RJ. Looking at purchasing the K-07XS. Do you find the transport is quiet in operation, when loading and playing discs? I sit close to my kit so it needs to be quiet.

G'day Trebor,

The K07-XS does have a slight mechanical/ motor hum. When loading discs and start up, it's like a jet engine revving up. Which in fact I find quite fascinating! It's sort of cool to me, and I'm not bothered by it one bit. Once in full operation, it's pretty quiet and runs smoothly.

Having said that, the quietness factor is not a criteria for me for determining good quality sound on recorded music. I've used far much quieter gear and they were no where near the Eso. Just listing in backward order, some I can't even recollect: Mac, ARC (Ref series), Cary, Cayin, McCormack, Wadia, Meridian, Copland, BAT, CJ, Arcam, Musical Fidelity, Marantz... the K07-XS surpasses the lot by far!

The only ones which were great were partnered with DACs and they sounded quite good but again nothing compared to this particular all in one from Eso. Given the features, settings and digital filters, plus the various outputs / inputs to match its DACs chip sets, is one heck of a design. It simply outweighs that quietness factor, it doesn't bother me. I guess sitting away over 15ft obviously helps.

The K05XS is very similar in construction and weight, it offers pretty much the same thing with a slightly modified transport mechanism. I compared the two side by side, and honestly couldn't tell the difference. Or shall I say, the extra spend involved was not justifiable. These two units are the starting line-up for Eso. When you get to the K03XD series and above, this is where changes take place significantly. Such as the power supplies, DAC chip sets, more digital filters and settings to choose from, basically things get far more complex. In addition to this, the overall weight is quite different. With the K07-XS & K05-XS units, the weight is around the 20-22kg mark. Whereas the XD series and leading upto the K01 and so on, the weight is over 30kg... this added heft gives more stability and solidness to the transport mechanism and whatever else is operating internally.

The list I've mentioned above does not include exact model numbers, rather the names. From that list, the Wadia with the Meitner Dac combo was the most natural, as well as the CJ DV2B (vacuum tube CD player). However, all of these units are no longer in production. In fact, the Mac, which was the last one I used, outlasted the ARC, Cary and Wadia put together. So when the time was up for a change, I was looking for something that is solid, well built and something well worth the investment. Not just another top of the line fancy price unit that was highly reviewed... not my gig.

It has to gel well with the rest of the gear, especially when considering CJ amplification with CLX's, and that synergy is so important, regardless of price. It certainly took a while to find the right fit, and I'm extremely pleased with it and what it offers. In terms of vfm, the K07-XS is one phenomenal digital playback system.
When partnered with the right gear, give it some time to settle in, choose the right settings and it will deliver some fine tunes!

Speaking of quietness, if that's your main criteria for justifying sound quality and performance, there's one that is so quiet, you can't hardly tell even if the disc has been loaded or not; the Luxman D10x. It just glides like an eagle... absolutely amazing mechanism and dead quiet. It's a another fine player and will deliver a very highend performance, as it ought to since it's Luxman's top of the line.

However, if I were to look at that and then compare it to Eso's top of the line, that's a serious challenge we're looking at. To me, the Eso gear are in a class of their own and the top level stuff is very pricey in Aus. Nonetheless, doesn't necessarily mean that Eso is the greatest and latest... definitely not. It's something that you may have to try out, see if you like it, check how it matches with the rest of your gear, and whether it improves the overall level of playback from your system. Not just better quality sound, that you'll get with any latest generation player. The key is how far a margin has the quality factor jumped...

My finances don't permit that absolute top level just yet, and if I were to upgrade from this point onwards, it will be the G01-X clock. That makes a significant difference and within my personal benchmark of 40% in improvement. Now that's justifiable to me, however the G01-X clock by itself is three times the price of the K07-XS... !
I wanted to try out the flavour of Esoteric's line-up, and now I understand what they're all about. So, might as well be happy and satisfied for now, I truly am!

Let us know how you go, and what you decide on.
All the best in your search and auditions, hopefully you'll find the right fit.
Cheers, and enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ

 

[Addicted to hifi]

i wonder if all esoteric sacd players have this mechanical noise when inserting a disc or just the entry level model?

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Addicted to hifi:
Not sure how you define Mechanical...

But like I said, it's not something that I've noticed straight away, that's not critical to me, unless that was the only thing I'm looking for in a CD player. That's a pretty low criteria to judge good sound.

For me what's critical is the quality of playback, and with what I have put together, the Eso gear matches extremely well, with a sense of balance and outstanding synergy. That's the most important aspect for me.

Obviously you'd want a playback system that is quiet, not something that's annoying to the point where it distracts you from the music. At that very slight level of start up and stop, there is an internal noise. I think every player on the planet has some sort of noise! With the advancement of technology transport mechanisms have come a long way since their first introduction. With the new generation of Disc playback systems, all these transports are extremely quiet and continually improve.
In fact, one top level unit, which was the ARC RefCD6 failed miserably! Not sure what it was, whether a voltage surge or something, the power supply and transport just couldn't be revived. So they offered me a direct replacement with a Ref7. However, due to the price variance, I was billed a particular cost. I really didn't want to divulge in more tubes, since the entire chain in pre-power plus phono is all tube... the ARC Ref series CD players have big tubes in them, so I opted out and cancelled the order. Although it was a great unit, it did have a slightly higher noise factor compared to the others, and that's something that I did notice!

Even TT's start up and stop with something to hear. If this is a huge problem for you then don't use them, simple as that!

Regarding Esoteric's other top of the line gear, I've never noticed, simply because I was more focused on the music! As we all should be. BTW, didn't you try one Eso model at home? The older K03 or something it was... did it have a noise? What were the symptoms?

I only replied to this noise aspect, since one member specifically asked about it, that's all. Other than that it doesn't bother me or anyone else who's actually listened to the current setup, since all the upgrades were done on the entire CJ amplification chain, including the settings on the Eso player, since your last visit...
Quite different then and very different now.

Thanks, RJ

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Addicted to hifi:
Not sure how you define Mechanical...

But like I said, it's not something that I've noticed straight away, that's not critical to me, unless that was the only thing I'm looking for in a CD player. That's a pretty low criteria to judge good sound.

For me what's critical is the quality of playback, and with what I have put together, the Eso gear matches extremely well, with a sense of balance and outstanding synergy. That's the most important aspect for me.

Obviously you'd want a playback system that is quiet, not something that's annoying to the point where it distracts you from the music. At that very slight level of start up and stop, there is an internal noise. I think every player on the planet has some sort of noise! With the advancement of technology transport mechanisms have come a long way since their first introduction. With the new generation of Disc playback systems, all these transports are extremely quiet and continually improve.
In fact, one top level unit, which was the ARC RefCD6 failed miserably! Not sure what it was, whether a voltage surge or something, the power supply and transport just couldn't be revived. So they offered me a direct replacement with a Ref7. However, due to the price variance, I was billed a particular cost. I really didn't want to divulge in more tubes, since the entire chain in pre-power plus phono is all tube... the ARC Ref series CD players have big tubes in them, so I opted out and cancelled the order. Although it was a great unit, it did have a slightly higher noise factor compared to the others, and that's something that I did notice!

Even TT's start up and stop with something to hear. If this is a huge problem for you then don't use them, simple as that!

Regarding Esoteric's other top of the line gear, I've never noticed, simply because I was more focused on the music! As we all should be. BTW, didn't you try one Eso model at home? The older K03 or something it was... did it have a noise? What were the symptoms?

I only replied to this noise aspect, since one member specifically asked about it, that's all. Other than that it doesn't bother me or anyone else who's actually listened to the current setup, since all the upgrades were done on the entire CJ amplification chain, including the settings on the Eso player, since your last visit...
Quite different then and very different now.

Thanks, RJ

Your right bigdog it would not bother me either.

 

[trebor33]

G'day Trebor,

The K07-XS does have a slight mechanical/ motor hum. When loading discs and start up, it's like a jet engine revving up. Which in fact I find quite fascinating! It's sort of cool to me, and I'm not bothered by it one bit. Once in full operation, it's pretty quiet and runs smoothly.

Having said that, the quietness factor is not a criteria for me for determining good quality sound on recorded music. I've used far much quieter gear and they were no where near the Eso. Just listing in backward order, some I can't even recollect: Mac, ARC (Ref series), Cary, Cayin, McCormack, Wadia, Meridian, Copland, BAT, CJ, Arcam, Musical Fidelity, Marantz... the K07-XS surpasses the lot by far!

The only ones which were great were partnered with DACs and they sounded quite good but again nothing compared to this particular all in one from Eso. Given the features, settings and digital filters, plus the various outputs / inputs to match its DACs chip sets, is one heck of a design. It simply outweighs that quietness factor, it doesn't bother me. I guess sitting away over 15ft obviously helps.

The K05XS is very similar in construction and weight, it offers pretty much the same thing with a slightly modified transport mechanism. I compared the two side by side, and honestly couldn't tell the difference. Or shall I say, the extra spend involved was not justifiable. These two units are the starting line-up for Eso. When you get to the K03XD series and above, this is where changes take place significantly. Such as the power supplies, DAC chip sets, more digital filters and settings to choose from, basically things get far more complex. In addition to this, the overall weight is quite different. With the K07-XS & K05-XS units, the weight is around the 20-22kg mark. Whereas the XD series and leading upto the K01 and so on, the weight is over 30kg... this added heft gives more stability and solidness to the transport mechanism and whatever else is operating internally.

The list I've mentioned above does not include exact model numbers, rather the names. From that list, the Wadia with the Meitner Dac combo was the most natural, as well as the CJ DV2B (vacuum tube CD player). However, all of these units are no longer in production. In fact, the Mac, which was the last one I used, outlasted the ARC, Cary and Wadia put together. So when the time was up for a change, I was looking for something that is solid, well built and something well worth the investment. Not just another top of the line fancy price unit that was highly reviewed... not my gig.

It has to gel well with the rest of the gear, especially when considering CJ amplification with CLX's, and that synergy is so important, regardless of price. It certainly took a while to find the right fit, and I'm extremely pleased with it and what it offers. In terms of vfm, the K07-XS is one phenomenal digital playback system.
When partnered with the right gear, give it some time to settle in, choose the right settings and it will deliver some fine tunes!

Speaking of quietness, if that's your main criteria for justifying sound quality and performance, there's one that is so quiet, you can't hardly tell even if the disc has been loaded or not; the Luxman D10x. It just glides like an eagle... absolutely amazing mechanism and dead quiet. It's a another fine player and will deliver a very highend performance, as it ought to since it's Luxman's top of the line.

However, if I were to look at that and then compare it to Eso's top of the line, that's a serious challenge we're looking at. To me, the Eso gear are in a class of their own and the top level stuff is very pricey in Aus. Nonetheless, doesn't necessarily mean that Eso is the greatest and latest... definitely not. It's something that you may have to try out, see if you like it, check how it matches with the rest of your gear, and whether it improves the overall level of playback from your system. Not just better quality sound, that you'll get with any latest generation player. The key is how far a margin has the quality factor jumped...

My finances don't permit that absolute top level just yet, and if I were to upgrade from this point onwards, it will be the G01-X clock. That makes a significant difference and within my personal benchmark of 40% in improvement. Now that's justifiable to me, however the G01-X clock by itself is three times the price of the K07-XS... !
I wanted to try out the flavour of Esoteric's line-up, and now I understand what they're all about. So, might as well be happy and satisfied for now, I truly am!

Let us know how you go, and what you decide on.
All the best in your search and auditions, hopefully you'll find the right fit.
Cheers, and enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ

Thank you RJ, appreciate the info!
It's just during playback and quiet passages in the music where I don't want to be distracted with mechanical noise from the player. Not a worry between tracks or start up. From what you say I don't think it'll be an issue though.
I have the Luxman D-03X which is completely silent loading and playing and would love to give the D-10X a try but it is out of my budget, sadly! The K-07XS is more within reach.
Will report back if I can find a dealer here with stock.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Sounds like a good plan Trebor.
Obviously these playback systems will certainly depend on your type of gear, current setup and of course the room acoustics. Direct comparisons are most helpful to determine which one you prefer.

I have noticed though, on most highend players, loading and on start up, there's always something spinning at very high speeds. Once the unit settles in and gets going, things quieten down and normal operation resumes. In which case after that it's really non-existent.

Let us know your findings. Have a good one now
Cheers, RJ

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Thank you RJ, appreciate the info!
It's just during playback and quiet passages in the music where I don't want to be distracted with mechanical noise from the player. Not a worry between tracks or start up. From what you say I don't think it'll be an issue though.
I have the Luxman D-03X which is completely silent loading and playing and would love to give the D-10X a try but it is out of my budget, sadly! The K-07XS is more within reach.
Will report back if I can find a dealer here with stock.

No CD player I have heard has a noise that can be heard during playback,not even the first CD players.

 

[Phillyb]

I've owned many CD players and never heard a noise from the transport. From the Sony's, (several ES models) early Esoteric, later Esoterics, Luxman, and Marantz SA7S1 or the wonderful SA10.

 

[microstrip]

(...) I have noticed though, on most highend players, loading and on start up, there's always something spinning at very high speeds. Once the unit settles in and gets going, things quieten down and normal operation resumes. In which case after that it's really non-existent. (...)

Some players, particularly those who play the CD in open air, such as the beautiful Primare 204 or the BOW Wizzard produce a whispering mechanical noise when spinning. As CDs are read at linear velocity from center to outside, the rotational speed is lower at the end of the CD and this noise sometimes almost vanishes at low rotational speed. Typically noise will not be heard if you sit more than two meters from the player, but can be annoying if you sit very close to it or if the player is placed inside furniture that acts as an acoustic shell.

This noise should not to be confused with the noise made by some faulty players that start sniping at high speed in reverse direction for a few seconds when we press play first time, then suddenly stop and start playing normally. I have seen it several times, it was usually fixed with a laser or clock adjustment/replacement.