dCS Varese short review

(...) a little off with digital is way off. more limited than analog so we hear system set up easier since wrong is more prominent.
This is my hands-on experience as well -- in fact I recently discovered that there is much in digital that is, or can be, off. The little things, that do not always make an earth shattering difference in good analogue.

Like signal tansfer, for example:
my DAC is, reportedly, one of the best sounding available: so, one could say, the digital signal processing part is OK. I also have high-erformance re-clocking device which, I thought, should complete the digital reproduction puzzle.
I was wrong.
Lately I discovered that in digital, processing the file isn't enough... you need to address signal transfer as well.

I inserted a USB isolator between streamer & DAC -- in other words I addressed the signal transfer part of the digital equation.
The improvement is astonishing!
Remember: nothing else changed, I only added a device (and an extra cable)

Analogue: at one point I rewired the arm using a reportredly ultra-resolving wire, with no mid-way termination, so the arm plugs directly into the riaa. The result was better resolution and instrument separation... probably. If it's there objectively, it's subtle.

Low quality LPs (ex: low-cost Italian pressings from the 80s) still sound just as horrible.
Please excuse the rambling -- but this contrast is an often overlooked quirk
 
I hadn’t thought about software being the next frontier. Perhaps I should have. But I also gather Taiko might be on to something with the XDMI path they’re taking with Olympus. I can’t begin to understand those complexities (I’m a finance guy), but reviews suggest it’s a substantively better way to feed a DAC(s). And it would appear that Varese, which is an all out assault (and an all or nothing system), does not take a similar path, though I could be wrong.
When i reflect on my time with Varese (again, way too brief to draw conclusions - only observations), I was most struck by how separate the instruments sounded - more delineation between them than I’m accustomed to relative to my reference points (my current system and the most pleasing systems I’ve heard). However, it’s also logical for me to conclude that Varese was a more accurate retrieval of what was on the streamed files. And, therefore, a more accurate reproduction of the recording.
But - it didn’t necessarily sound more of a piece even though it clearly revealed more. Please don’t misunderstand - it was fantastic in so many ways. I’m just not sure more accurate is “better” rather than “different”. Perhaps that’s the difference between digital and analog. Using an oversimplified analogy, is digital is assembling a whole from disparate pieces, whereas, analogue is, in essence, already compiled before playback?
If even partially correct, software, recording and streaming protocols are likely the next frontiers to improving digital as I’m not sure how much more there is to retrieve from packeted bits.
I hope so - because that means I might be able to reach a summit of sorts - without it requiring such extraordinary expense and corresponding space to house it. (Or am I just exhibiting sour grapes?)
Thanks for letting me chime in.
 
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Second, audiophile consumers are less willing to spend $250,000 on new software vs. a new form factor.
This is it. They fancy sizes, prices, and ability to discuss why their big TT or digital design is better more than pressings, recording engineers, and performances
 
i know that professional hifi set up guys (Stirling Trayle, Jim Smith) use digital files for set-up references.
Stirling starts with digital and ends with analog. At least that’s what he did with the CH Stenheim in London, and I believe he would have done for dcc’s Stenheim as well.

The digital would have helped the speed to get there, but by no means is sufficient or necessary.

Either way, if some set up expert did only digital, he will be successful surely given the audiophile profile, does not mean he is correct. You can get there by measurements alone sometimes, does not make it right not to also listen. There is an overlap between what is correct and what is not, it is not a mutually exclusive Venn diagram
 
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@ Bonzo what credentials do you have ?

You listen to a lot of classical concerts , you listen to a lot of other peoples set ups .but ....

Have you ever set up a stereosystem at home which was to your personal liking ?

Who cares what people use for set ups .
Digital is flatter in the bass for sure and much easier / better repeatable..
 
When You place a speaker in perfect position (by sumiko method) then changing the source or changing the amplifier will affect on the result so you may prefer to change the speaker position again.
 
you could be right about the best approach for the next big step being software.

but just follow the money. is there enough of it to motivate the proper talent to chase something like that? would top level game programmers work for what hifi companies could pay? i would expect not. would need an angel with very deep pockets with a strong vision.

if there was enough dollars involved; we might already have higher performing digital formats. hard to separate improving playback and the weaknesses of the current formats. but evidentially there is just not enough interest in pushing for higher performance digital music reproduction to move that needle. mostly those involved are satisfied with where it's at. and how it works.

i don't know anything about software development myself.......just connecting dots......and observing the flow of talent to where the pay is. and that is not hifi.

we have analog references that would validate a software digital music performance break-thru if it happened. the whole price/value/marketing equation would work itself out somehow. to me the big issue would always be how numbers can capture the whole sound like analog. but i suppose at some future point it will happen......somehow.

we like shiny new toys, that is true. but no place to hide if there is a better way. conspiracy theorists will always have their say, of course.
I feel that I was maybe a bit obtuse. Your response indicates you maybe missed my point.
 
 
I feel that I was maybe a bit obtuse. Your response indicates you maybe missed my point.
fair enough. i am slow on the uptake sometimes and go off on my own tangent.

i do think that formats would need to advance to something altogether different, to allow for software to overcome what is now done (noise and power supply related challenges) with hardware. which was my point spurred on by your point. i do realize your point was figuring that software could somehow take the place of exotic hardware as a narrow idea.

i doubt that would do much as the formats are now constructed. the real solution would come from changing the source of the problem needing solving.
 
Ron:
To answer your astute question regarding whether "after the blush" I would still speak highly of the VERASE, I returned to JS Audio (Bethesda, Md) last evening for another event featuring the Verase.

YES, I still am amazed by the presentation. Peter McGrath presented 10 - 15 selections that he recorded at various venues in Florida. Some were in the concert hall feature the Florida Symphony. Others were in churches and smaller venues. In speaking with him, he emphasized two points: (a) the Verase accurately presented the venue, reverberations, tonal character etc; (b) the presentation was extremely accurate with respect to tonal character of the instruments, singers, etc. He commented that the Verase markedly excepted his own personal Vivaldi stack. While I definitely appreciated the presentation of the venue and musicians, obviously I could not determine accuracy; but hearing the opinion of the person who actually recorded the event was confirmatory.

There were two "wrinkles" to the presentation last night different from the previous presentation:

(1) The DACs were connected to the brand new D-Agostino Momentum C2 preamp rather than being connected directly to the DAG Momentum MxV mono blocks. They did not A/B the preamp vs direct connection last night, and audio memory is from a week ago would likely be erroneous, but that said, my impression was that the preamp did not alter the sound. Some listeners, who had heard the system without the preamp, felt the C2 provided slightly (less than several percent) more "fullness" and "warmth." Perhaps. But this is actually a compliment to both the C2 and the Verase in that the C2 is not significantly altering the music and the Versase can be used without a preamp.

(2) They had the very large Wilson Audio "subsonic" subwoofers (two of them) powered by a DAG Momentum MxV S250 stereo amp. As expected, they could literally vibrate your stomach. On electronic music, I suppose such tactile "clues" are desired and certainly their presence indicates the ability of the Verase to translate and transmit such frequency information. However, personally, on classical symphonic, jazz, single voice music, I felt that the subwoofers "muddied" the bass and detracted from the "authenticity" of the recording. (A tympani heard from the Orchestral seats should have a deep resonance but should or does not actually vibrate the listener's body. Similarly with a double bass in a jazz group.). However, there were many "aah" and "wows" and wide grins among the listeners in response to the subwoofers. So, this may be a personal taste.

Hope this helps.
 
Yes, thank you very much!
 
Ron:
To answer your astute question regarding whether "after the blush" I would still speak highly of the VERASE, I returned to JS Audio (Bethesda, Md) last evening for another event featuring the Verase.

YES, I still am amazed by the presentation. Peter McGrath presented 10 - 15 selections that he recorded at various venues in Florida. Some were in the concert hall feature the Florida Symphony. Others were in churches and smaller venues. In speaking with him, he emphasized two points: (a) the Verase accurately presented the venue, reverberations, tonal character etc; (b) the presentation was extremely accurate with respect to tonal character of the instruments, singers, etc. He commented that the Verase markedly excepted his own personal Vivaldi stack. While I definitely appreciated the presentation of the venue and musicians, obviously I could not determine accuracy; but hearing the opinion of the person who actually recorded the event was confirmatory.

There were two "wrinkles" to the presentation last night different from the previous presentation:

(1) The DACs were connected to the brand new D-Agostino Momentum C2 preamp rather than being connected directly to the DAG Momentum MxV mono blocks. They did not A/B the preamp vs direct connection last night, and audio memory is from a week ago would likely be erroneous, but that said, my impression was that the preamp did not alter the sound. Some listeners, who had heard the system without the preamp, felt the C2 provided slightly (less than several percent) more "fullness" and "warmth." Perhaps. But this is actually a compliment to both the C2 and the Verase in that the C2 is not significantly altering the music and the Versase can be used without a preamp.

(2) They had the very large Wilson Audio "subsonic" subwoofers (two of them) powered by a DAG Momentum MxV S250 stereo amp. As expected, they could literally vibrate your stomach. On electronic music, I suppose such tactile "clues" are desired and certainly their presence indicates the ability of the Verase to translate and transmit such frequency information. However, personally, on classical symphonic, jazz, single voice music, I felt that the subwoofers "muddied" the bass and detracted from the "authenticity" of the recording. (A tympani heard from the Orchestral seats should have a deep resonance but should or does not actually vibrate the listener's body. Similarly with a double bass in a jazz group.). However, there were many "aah" and "wows" and wide grins among the listeners in response to the subwoofers. So, this may be a personal taste.

Hope this helps.
I have a friend with subs. He has multiple setting for the subs depending on the music. I see subs mess stuff up often. St times they shine. People get carried away at times and need to learn to dial them back.
 
I have a friend with subs. He has multiple setting for the subs depending on the music. I see subs mess stuff up often. St times they shine. People get carried away at times and need to learn to dial them back.
I agree in general. But … Peter McGrath is THE MAN when it comes to setting up systems based on Wilson. There is NO ONE better.
 
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I attended the Varese Demo event organized by hiendy.com and HiFi Gallery, the dCS dealer in Hong Kong.

1000491623.jpg

The Varese System went directly into the Constellation Statement stereo poweramp, driving a pair of Gauder DARC speakers.

The demo event lasted for 1.5 hours. PCM & DSD NAS files and Qobuz streaming were played.

Although the speakers are not my cup of tea, Varese was very very good.
The Apex Upgrade of the lower dCS models is said to be tickled-down tech of Varese but I can confidently say that Varese is in another league.

I think dCS should open a new dac top series and launch a "more affordable" Varese Junior!
:p

 
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More than half the rack space is DAC! .
A Varese SACD/CD transport will be released in 1Q or 2Q 2025.
A six-piece combo then!
 
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Tonight, I had the opportunity to experience the dCS Varese. I just returned home, and although late, I feel literally compelled to post this brief "review".

And God said, “Let there be light.” And, the world was illuminated, its beauty revealed.

And dCS said, “Let there be music.” And there was, appearing from the void, filling the room with sound as natural, as pure, as the light from the sun.

The sound is simply there, it does not seem to eminate from any source, it does not have limits other than the original recording, it does not have color other than what the instruments and/or voices provide.

Is this over dramatic, “purple prose” as my literature professor use to say?

No.

When asked, “what does the Varese sound like”, the only answer is “nothing”. Just as there was nothing before God created light, there is no sound except the music itself, no speakers, no amps, no preamps, no cables, no power conditioner. Nothing. There is the primordial void, and then there is music.

The usual review discusses the sound stage, the tonal quality, the noise level, etc. There is simply nothing to discuss. None of the traditional characteristics apply, any more than one can describe a true vacuum— in nothing, there is nothing to describe.

It is so “unreal” in comparison to anything else (including the dCS Vivaldi) that the experience is actually somewhat discomforting. We are conditioned to be able to tell a recording from attending a live performance. Given even a streamed source (Qobuz in this case), you simply could not differentiate.

This included not only jazz, acoustic guitar with male and female singers, but (at my request) Poulenc’s Concerto for Organ, Tympani and Strings. The latter I have heard on many systems and none presented the organ so clearly, so realistically, such that every pipe was clearly discernible yet sounded coherent, singular. The tympani robust and reverberant, the various strings evident and complimentary. I was, without a doubt, in the venue complete with its acoustic signature, live about the 5th row orchestra.

The demo included an A/B comparison between the dCS Vivaldi and the Varese. The Vivaldi was clouded, flat, distant and indistinct in comparison, and the Vivaldi has long been a standard to which other DACS are compared.

Granted, the system used for this demonstration was worthy of the Varese: D’Agostino Momentum M400 MxV mono amplifiers, Wilson Audio Chronosonic XVX speakers, Nordost Odin cabling between the DACs and both the amps and the speakers and for the interconnects on the Vivaldi. (Note the Varese comes with its own unique cables to connect the 5 boxes.)

Most of us (certainly not I) will never be able to own such a system. But, if you get the opportunity to hear the Varese, do so. It is certainly a worthy musical experience and perhaps a religious one as well.

I want to thank Steve Kennedy at JS Audio in Bethesda, MD, for inviting me to the presentation.
Perhaps it's because I have read gushing reviews like this for close to 40 years that I get a bit jaded. I'm sure Varese sounds fine indeed, until of course the next "dead composer" dCS system arrives, when folks will complain how Varese sounded "clouded, flat, distant and indistinct". The only dCS system I owned was around 30 years ago, which featured the dead composers Elgar, Purcell, and Verdi. The connections took a rocket scientist to figure out (> 10-12 cables, I recall). The sound was fine, once you got the system working. The dCS Verdi transport was a disaster and had to be sent back twice to England for repairs. I think the newer dCS transports use Esoteric parts, hopefully they are more reliable.

The real advances in digital in the past 30 years have been in streaming high resolution audio (e.g., Qobuz, Roon et al.) , and we have much to thank Daniel Ek whose brilliant team at Spotify made streaming practical. If you really want to understand the engineering challenges in streaming at web scale, I highly recommend watching The Playlist on Netflix, which is a wonderful introduction to the complexities of making streaming a reality. That made it possible to distribute music at massive scale and with sufficient quality to satisfy high end listeners.

The other significant advance has been at the lower end, with streamers like Eversolo DMP-A8, which according to measurements in a number of high end magazines is about the best there is in the field, and costs about a tenth of what the Nordost Odin cabling used in that setup where Varese was demonstrated.

None of this is to say that the Varese doesn't sound great, as I am sure it does for those who can afford the six figure pricing. I'm waiting for the dCS system that will cost in excess of a million dollars per component. It's coming....with Nordost cabling that costs in the six figures per cable.
 

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