Ethics of Switching Seats at a Classical Concert

Is it okay to move to an empty and better seat at a classical concert?

  • Yes

    Votes: 17 51.5%
  • No

    Votes: 16 48.5%

  • Total voters
    33

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,448
13,475
2,710
London
Ked

Please. Would you like me to show you some of your posts.

How about the one a few minutes ago to Peter where you seemed to be mocking his choice of speakers and electronics

I will refrain. But making fun of gear happens on an audio forum while "There are the rules of the venue, the mores of the culture, and the ethics of the individual" is a different thing
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
I have not hurled insults towards Peter. He alluded to cultural and ethical superiority. Micro needs to control his own postings too his insults are not direct they are subtle.

Apologies if you ever felt "subtly insulted". I usually try to express my feelings and the technical and preference opinions in a direct way, trying to avoid any direct personnel conflict with other posters. Kill the message, not the messenger, as I have written more than once.
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
Sadly, yes it is, Bob. Unfortunately, the sailboat will be launched three months late this season as I had an accident and the doctor told me not to take her out while in my cast and on crutches. So now I have more time to sit around at my computer and make poor arguments on audio forums. :)

You have an open invitation, Bob. Ron chose to listen to my stereo instead of sailing last Fall. No one has slipped into an empty seat on the boat without permission, to the best of my knowledge. The harbor and dock masters both keep a pretty close watch over the boats around here.

Is your daughter a regular in accompanying you for a sail ride?
Your wife Peter?

I know that sailing is one of the best hobbies on our planet.
If you ask me between a music listening session and a sail ride that's not a real question for me, sail away any day of the week.

Best recovery.

Boston is quite some way from the Island, but I sure appreciate all you do.

With time I learned to appreciate my seat here @ WBF. I'm content, I don't need to move to an empty one with the risk of getting kick out of the hall. ;)

Ked I would like going sailing with him too. We would have a blast climbing atop the mast and checking for distant sharks.
 

orfeo_monteverdi

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2015
99
156
265
Europe
[please forgive my poor English]

Regarding the question in the OP, things have have become more simple for me, at least in one of Brussel's concert hall:
it is now (unofficially?) allowed to switch seats after the pause (there are no written rules though).
So, YES, I do it whenever it is useful, and possible. And my personal ethics is relieved to do it "legally".





Impact on the listening experience at home?

Switching seats, if possible without harming anyone, sometimes deliver revelatory sonic delights.

For instance, last season I switched my seat to sit nearly "above" the outstanding violin player from The Netherlands, Janine Jansen (Beethoven violin & piano sonatas, piano Denis Kozukhin, winner of the Concours Reine Elizabeth international contest 2010). Mrs Jansen plays with an amazing instrument: the Stradivarius which belonged to Nathan Milstein. I never heard a violin which sounded like that one before (see also her disc: 12 Stradivari, Discogs)



Switching from here to there was a revelatory experience for that memorable concert, one of the best I ever attended.

(elliptical concert hall designed by the Art Nouveau movement founder, architect Victor Horta)

But sometimes, it is fully booked, and no switching is possible:

(last Friday, the opening concert of the 23-24 season, Beethoven concerto piano #5, Leif Ove Andsnes - bad seat, 4th row - last season, I heard the same Andsnes on Janá?ek and Beethoven sitting row #8, it was wonderful; always slightly at the right of the piano for better sound - it is Andsnes himself, with the musical Director of the hall, who had chosen the Steinway of the concert hall, in Hamburg)


In other concert halls, switching is not allowed.
For instance, it is a safer bet to buy the best seats in the (new and positively outstanding) Namur Concert Hall, already considered as one of Europe's best. Labels are already rushing in to record. On row J/K/L, you really wonder if you're in the 4th or in the 5th dimension. This place is worth a trip to Namur, not kidding.
Stellar shoe-box. Built in 2020 (designed by Kahle Acoustics, Brussels - amazing pics of their projects here)



It's simple, there is no place (that I know), other than the Namur Concert Hall, where I could hear so "physically" the texture's density of the instruments (except when I sat just besides the violin and the harp, when my cousin and her daughter are playing; but this is no concert).
I also attended a "funny experience" (not really a concert either), organized by the Concertgebouw Brugge: audience sitting inside the orchestra, besides musicians, as if we were part of the orchestra. They called it "Surround" (pic). The purpose was to trigger interest in a younger audience. There I could here textures of an unheard density too, though it was unbalanced. I sat carefully away from percussion and brass...
Distance from the orchestra is nonetheless necessary. But such "experiences" helped me realize that with distance, a part of the "density"/body of the instrument's sound is kind of being "sublimated" (solid -> gas). This reinforces my tendency to not lower my demand for "body and flesh" (though to match those with speed, transparency, "breathe" and life-likeness, is quite another story...).
There is no other concert hall I know than the Namur Concert Hall where I could hear instruments sounding that close to what I heard during that mazing "Surround" experience, sitting amongst musicians inside the orchestra. In Namur, instruments deliver textural densities and a richness of timbres which is second to none (that I have heard), alongside with a superlative intelligibility of voices (the hall was built as a tool for choral music, but all genres can be played comfortably), while sitting in the audience, not in the orchestra, and not too near from the stage.

Recent exposure to instruments playing in such a high quality acoustics, seating in the best seats, somewhat reset my aural compass and, I confess, even gently triggered my interest for good horn speakers (not the one that "shout", stress the sound or sound with cupped hands).
I can say that, to a certain extent, it helped me reassessing some audio gear or systems, too. The now allowed seat-switching-after-the-pause in the very good-sounding too historical concert hall (pic above), helps that too, in a different way though as the sonic rendition is slightly warmer there, and gently verges to the "comfortable".

Last season, I attended 36 concerts. Most of them in the best seats (sometimes switched).

Music: what a marvelous "hobby".
 
Last edited:

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,448
13,475
2,710
London
[please forgive my poor English]

Regarding the question in the OP, things have have become more simple for me, at least in one of Brussel's concert hall:
it is now (unofficially?) allowed to switch seats after the pause (there are no written rules though).
So, YES, I do it whenever it is useful, and possible. And my personal ethics is relieved to do it "legally".





Impact on the listening experience at home?

Switching seats, if possible without harming anyone, sometimes deliver revelatory sonic delights.

For instance, last season I switched my seat to sit nearly "above" the outstanding violin player from The Netherlands, Janine Jansen (Beethoven violin & piano sonatas, piano Denis Kozukhin, winner of the Concours Reine Elizabeth international contest 2010). Mrs Jansen plays with an amazing instrument: the Stradivarius which belonged to Nathan Milstein. I never heard a violin which sounded like that one before (see also her disc: 12 Stradivari, Discogs)



Switching from here to there was a revelatory experience for that memorable concert, one of the best I ever attended.

(elliptical concert hall designed by the Art Nouveau movement founder, architect Victor Horta)

But sometimes, it is fully booked, and no switching is possible:

(last Friday, the opening concert of the 23-24 season, Beethoven concerto piano #5, Leif Ove Andsnes - bad seat, 4th row - last season, I heard the same Andsnes on Janá?ek and Beethoven sitting row #8, it was wonderful; always slightly at the right of the piano for better sound - it is Andsnes himself, with the musical Director of the hall, who had chosen the Steinway of the concert hall, in Hamburg)


In other concert halls, switching is not allowed.
For instance, it is a safer bet to buy the best seats in the (new and positively outstanding) Namur Concert Hall, already considered as one of Europe's best. Labels are already rushing in to record. On row J/K/L, you really wonder if you're in the 4th or in the 5th dimension. This place is worth a trip to Namur, not kidding.
Stellar shoe-box. Built in 2020 (designed by Kahle Acoustics, Brussels - amazing pics of their projects here)



It's simple, there is no place (that I know), other than the Namur Concert Hall, where I could hear so "physically" the texture's density of the instruments (except when I sat just besides the violin and the harp, when my cousin and her daughter are playing; but this is no concert).
I also attended a "funny experience" (not really a concert either), organized by the Concertgebouw Brugge: audience sitting inside the orchestra, besides musicians, as if we were part of the orchestra. They called it "Surround" (pic). The purpose was to trigger interest in a younger audience. There I could here textures of an unheard density too, though it was unbalanced. I sat carefully away from percussion and brass...
Distance from the orchestra is nonetheless necessary. But such "experiences" helped me realize that with distance, a part of the "density"/body of the instrument's sound is kind of being "sublimated" (solid -> gas). This reinforces my tendency to not lower my demand for "body and flesh" (though to match those with speed, transparency, "breathe" and life-likeness, is quite another story...).
There is no other concert hall I know than the Namur Concert Hall where I could hear instruments delivering textural densities and richness of timbres, along with a superlative intelligibility of voices (the hall was built as a tool for choral music, but all genres can be played comfortably), while sitting in the audience, not in the orchestra, and not too near from the stage.

Recent exposure to instruments playing in such a high quality acoustics, seating in the best seats, somewhat reset my aural compass and, I confess, event gently triggered my interest for good horn speakers (not the one that "shout", stress the sound or sound with cupped hands).
I can say that, to a certain extent, it helped me reassessing some audio gear or systems, too. The now allowed seat-switching-after-the-pause in the historical, very good-sounding, historical concert hall (pic above), helps that too, in a different way though as the sonic rendition is slightly warmer there, and gently verges to the "comfortable".

Last season, I attended 36 concerts. Most of them in the best seats (sometimes switched).

Music: what a marvelous "hobby".

Nice. I saw Janine Jansen do a brilliant Sibelius earlier this year with LSO at Barbican, and will likely see her do Mendelssohn concerto and some Brahms sonatas later this year, and Barber’s in the new years.

Amazing how regular concert goers turn to horns.
 
Last edited:

orfeo_monteverdi

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2015
99
156
265
Europe
(Conversely, I sometimes wonder -but it's another topic, sorry for the aside- if successive iterations of a good speaker does not act a bit like seat-switching for the listener, allowing him to sit in a better seat, generally a bit closer to the stage
EXAMPLE: Harbeth M30.1 --> M30.2 Anniversary​
//I owned the first, now owns the latter, in a 2nd system, neighbor-less very good sounding room;​
I see that @tmallin , in a very interesting series of new posts, "upgraded" towards (and got back to) a new model of BBC monitor, as it happens Graham Audio LS 8/1 - I have plenty questions for him... ;-)​
)
 

R Johnson

Well-Known Member
Jul 24, 2010
188
43
933
Chicago, Illinois, USA
At Orchestra Hall in Chicago the Gallery (the topmost level) is all one price except for the last row. It's a little cheaper since the elevation from the previous row is about half the normal. Result: a compromised view.

But almost everyone who buys those seats stays there even though there are plenty of empty seats in the rows below.
 

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