Evolution Acoustics MM7 thoughts and impressions

andromedaaudio

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With a first order crossover is usually ment there is one filtering component for a driver in the crossover , for example 1 cap as a tweeter filter or 1 coil for a bass driver .
This usually results in gradually sloping roll offf for the units , with second or 3 rd order crossovers you have steeper declines at the crossover frequencies , besides that you have off course series filters (constant voltage ) as its known also (if i am correct) and parallel filters
In my expirience , the more filtering components you add the more phase problems could arise , but others might differ .
You need filtering components its a designers trade off

look forward seeing the pics mike , should be quite a different sound expirience
 

Mike Lavigne

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With a first order crossover is usually ment there is one filtering component for a driver in the crossover , for example 1 cap as a tweeter filter or 1 coil for a bass driver .
This usually results in gradually sloping roll offf for the units , with second or 3 rd order crossovers you have steeper declines at the crossover frequencies , besides that you have off course series filters (constant voltage ) as its known also (if i am correct) and parallel filters
In my expirience , the more filtering components you get the more phase problems could arise , but others might differ .

look forward seeing the pics mike , should be quite a different sound expirience

thanks. i am looking forward to it.

the Kharma Exquisite speakers i had were also first order and i always thought that they had a very 'direct' sort of connection to the music compared to some other speakers with more complicated crossovers. i have that same un-veiled feeling with the Evolutions.

i do appreciate your explanation about it.
 

andromedaaudio

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Yes i do like kharma as well , i was/am also very impressed by the ultra hard materials used in the exquisite series , which results in no driver energy loss , wilson does that also off course ,i dont know what evolution uses in their frontplate construction
One more thing that i heard somewhere is that kharma is also using a series filter like the evolution speakers.
The kharmas throw a very large soundstage and my believe is that a series filter has something to do with that also.


greetz hj
 

A.wayne

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Im sure he meant first order electrical and not acoustic . First order xovers have very little phase shift and fast rise times , you do tend to get more dynamic distortion especially from tweeters , due to the excessive bandwidth drive, this places a lot of demand on driver selection and applications. Imo its the best way, but does require more than a simple 1 part xover ...

I'm a big fan of odd order , best of both worlds ...

Regards
 

Mike Lavigne

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Im sure he meant first order electrical and not acoustic . First order xovers have very little phase shift and fast rise times , you do tend to get more dynamic distortion especially from tweeters , due to the excessive bandwidth drive, this places a lot of demand on driver selection and applications. Imo its the best way, but does require more than a simple 1 part xover ...

I'm a big fan of odd order , best of both worlds ...

Regards

i'm already out of my depth relating technical details without the knowledge base to really comprehend them.

thanks for the explanations.
 

jeromelang

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Anybody with technical nous can better explain what the engineer is trying to say?

".....added protection on the bottom end of the tweeter and filtering of upper frequency break up in the midrange, which aids in providing better off axis response than typical first order parallel network engineering...."

At first glance, it sounds like there are additional eq filtering to curb the deleterious sonic effects of excessive tweeter and midrange bandwidth incursion into each others territory. So the crossover network component count is more than just 1 per bandwidth segment?
 
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JackD201

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Anybody can better explain what the engineer is trying to say?

".....added protection on the bottom end of the tweeter and filtering of upper frequency break up in the midrange, which aids in providing better off axis response than typical first order parallel network engineering...."

At first glance, it sounds like there are additional eq filtering to curb the deleterious sonic effects of excessive tweeter and midrange bandwidth incursion into each others territory. So the crossover network component count is more than just 1 per bandwidth segment?

driver correction :)
 

GaryProtein

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Hello Mike ,

You will find the bass towers work best on the outside , if you place them on the inside , the sound stage tends to collapse inward..

Regards ,

I agree. The bass towers should be outside. I have tried my IRS with the bass towers inside and the midrange/tweeter towers outside, and the soundstage does become narrower with that arrangement. The room fills with sound better with the bass outside. I also have the four towers almost in an arc equidistant from my listening chair.
 
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LL21

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I agree. The bass towers should be outside. I have tried my IRS with the bass towers inside and the midrange/tweeter towers outside, and the soundstage does become narrower with that arrangement. The room fills with sound better with the bass outside. I also have the four towers almost in an arc equidistant from my listening chair.

I just noticed that in your avatar...does that mean the woofer towers are 'slightly in front' of the main treble/mid tower? i would have guessed to put the bass towers slightly behind them on the outside...so the arc is actually curving AWAY from your listening position...and leaving the main towers 'room to breath' to disperse sound widely without 'hitting' the woofer tower. Again, that would have been my initial guess...you've obviously found yours to be the best setup...any guidance as to how/why would be appreciated.
 

Mike Lavigne

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I just noticed that in your avatar...does that mean the woofer towers are 'slightly in front' of the main treble/mid tower? i would have guessed to put the bass towers slightly behind them on the outside...so the arc is actually curving AWAY from your listening position...and leaving the main towers 'room to breath' to disperse sound widely without 'hitting' the woofer tower. Again, that would have been my initial guess...you've obviously found yours to be the best setup...any guidance as to how/why would be appreciated.

dispersion on a dipole (Infinity IRS) is quite different from dynamic speakers. it does not have the wide dispersion of a dynamic speaker. so how the bass towers would affect the main towers would be at least be somewhat different. i've typically seen the Genesis 1.2's with the bass towers behind the main towers.

not to say that having them equadistant (on the same length radius) to the listening position might not be best, but only that it's a different situation than the MM7's.

also; as i understand it both the IRS and the big Genesis have bass crossovers where you can vary the time delay for the bass towers. which does allow for differences in distance to the listener.
 
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GaryProtein

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I just noticed that in your avatar...does that mean the woofer towers are 'slightly in front' of the main treble/mid tower? i would have guessed to put the bass towers slightly behind them on the outside...so the arc is actually curving AWAY from your listening position...and leaving the main towers 'room to breath' to disperse sound widely without 'hitting' the woofer tower. Again, that would have been my initial guess...you've obviously found yours to be the best setup...any guidance as to how/why would be appreciated.

My woofers are very slightly in front of the midrange tweeter towers and are pretty equidistant to my listening chair. I sit about 22 feet from the speakers in the 34 foot long room, so the arc has a large radius, making the woofers only a few inches in front of the mid/tweet. Also, because the set-up is slightly asymmetrical in the room, the right mid/tweet had to be set a few inches closer to me (farther from the front wall) than the left one to achieve a perfectly balanced sound to my ears.

Mike, the IRS has a wide horizontal dispersion and limited vertical dispersion. The sweet spot is actually quite wide. Also, the MM7 being dynamic, vs the IRS and Genesis being dipoles will also have somewhat different perception of their radiation patterns at the listening chair. I was merely stating my preference for the woofers being on the outside of the midrange/tweeters. I have never heard, nor do I know enough about the MM7 to make any technical remarks.

Also, if you look at some of the photos Gary Koh has posted in home installations, there are often variations in placement because very few people will have a 1000-1200 square foot room for a "textbook perfect" installation or the "WAF" must be considered. The placement of the woofers behind, in line or in front of the midrange/tweeters is often due to space management. In fact, Gary posted one photo of the G1.2 where one woofer is in front and the other behind the midrange/tweeters without deleterious effects.
 
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LL21

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dispersion on a dipole (Infinity IRS) is quite different from dynamic speakers. it does not have the wide dispersion of a dynamic speaker. so how the bass towers would affect the main towers would be at least be somewhat different. i've typically seen the Genesis 1.2's with the bass towers behind the main towers.

not to say that having them equadistant (on the same length radius) to the listening position might not be best, but only that it's a different situation than the MM7's.

also; as i understand it both the IRS and the big Genesis have bass crossovers where you can vary the time delay for the bass towers. which does allow for differences in distance to the listener.



My woofers are very slightly in front of the midrange tweeter towers and are pretty equidistant to my listening chair. I sit about 22 feet from the speakers in the 34 foot long room, so the arc has a large radius, making the woofers only a few inches in front of the mid/tweet. Also, because the set-up is slightly asymmetrical in the room, the right mid/tweet had to be set a few inches closer to me (farther from the front wall) than the left one to achieve a perfectly balanced sound to my ears.

Mike, the IRS has a wide horizontal dispersion and limited vertical dispersion. The sweet spot is actually quite wide. Also, the MM7 being dynamic, vs the IRS and Genesis being dipoles will also have somewhat different perception of their radiation patterns at the listening chair. I was merely stating my preference for the woofers being on the outside of the midrange/tweeters. I have never heard, nor do I know enough about the MM7 to make any technical remarks.

Also, if you look at some of the photos Gary Koh has posted in home installations, there are often variations in placement because very few people will have a 1000-1200 square foot room for a "textbook perfect" installation or the "WAF" must be considered. The placement of the woofers behind, in line or in front of the midrange/tweeters is often due to space management. In fact, Gary posted one photo of the G1.2 where one woofer is in front and the other behind the midrange/tweeters without deleterious effects.

Interesting...always learning on this forum. Thanks gents. Good to know if i ever decide to venture for the Genesis Dragon, or Gryphon reference speakers (2 main ribbon towers plus 2 multi-driver bass towers)
 

Mike Lavigne

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the MM7 main towers ship tomorrow and will arrive this Friday at my home.

the bass towers will ship next week, Wednesday maybe Friday at the lastest. if the bass towers ship Wednesday they will arrive next Friday.

finally!
 

MasterChief

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the MM7 main towers ship tomorrow and will arrive this Friday at my home.

the bass towers will ship next week, Wednesday maybe Friday at the lastest. if the bass towers ship Wednesday they will arrive next Friday.

finally!

I am excited and impatient waiting just to read about your impressions. And you are for me a stranger living on the other side of the globe :) So I can't imagine how you must feel...Like a child on christmas multiplied with 100. :b
 

Mike Lavigne

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I am excited and impatient waiting just to read about your impressions. And you are for me a stranger living on the other side of the globe :) So I can't imagine how you must feel...Like a child on christmas multiplied with 100. :b

you got it!

likely the fact that originally it was suppose to be July delivery has amplified the anticipation a bit.
 

JackD201

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When will the amps be following?
 

Mike Lavigne

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When will the amps be following?

i wish i could exactly say.....but i don't know for sure.

last week i did hear they are close to complete, missing one part, and about to be bench tested. whatever all that means. but i got no ship date or even estimate.

i think mid to late November is what i expect.
 

JackD201

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Easy on the caffeine Mike, must be hard getting to sleep at night as is! :)
 

MylesBAstor

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i wish i could exactly say.....but i don't know for sure.

last week i did hear they are close to complete, missing one part, and about to be bench tested. whatever all that means. but i got no ship date or even estimate.

i think mid to late November is what i expect.

You'll just have to slum 'til then :)
 

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