EVS modified Gustard X20/Gustard X20 thread
- Thread starter Ric Schultz
- Start date
Have second x20U, totally stock, in system since Friday 5PM. Last night I listened for 1 1/2 hour so apprx 53 hours on dac with signal; I must say at no time did the words paradigm shift come into my thoughts. Huge difference between stock Gustard with only 53 hours and full level 1modded gustard with over 400 hours. Stock is certainly nice if you don't have the level 1 to compare to and would beat most stock dacs if not all in the $1500 and under category. My plan is to let it run a week with signal (168 hours) then start the mod process slowly. After 30 minutes last night I added my AQ Jitterbug and up tone regen and that improved things nicely, bass way tighter and more dynamic and overall less digititess with more focus on images which means better separation, still not even close to level 1.
If you are trying to up sample to high DSD (256 or 512) then i2s. I don't have a u12 because of it's bottleneck in the sound chain so I can't answer what would be best if not using i2s, would suspect aes first , then coax. I am looking for new SU-1 when it is released or the DIYinHK board mentioned earlier if I can figure out how to wire it to a hdmi cable to go the the X20u. Both should offer superior sonics to the u12.
I've experimented with a monoprice RCA cable for coax and an Amazon Basics HDMI cable for I2S. The RCA might be slightly better. Using I2S and XMOS USB drivers found online (both an ASIO and kernel streaming driver) 128 DSD is the maximum, and I don't know how to make it stream DSD without using DoP. 256-512 DSD might be impossible without wiring the i2S ports for LVDS or installing an Amereno USB board.
I copied a post I did on another forum, but it fits this thread nicely so here it is:
As Ric mentioned I maybe the only person currently who has a very close to level 1 mod and did the upgrades in stages listening after each. I also have a friends STOCK Gustard here which has been burning in for more than a week. I can compare that unit to my level 1 unit. Friday evening the stock X20u had over 170 hours on it, I listened to it for a couple of hours; IT is a really nice dac as it is stock and you would not think you are missing anything at all. It checks most of the boxes Tonality, transparency, huge stage, solid palpable well defined images, dynamic and great bass. I was enjoying it, my only concern was a very slight digititis which if you had a full SS system and brightish speakers may be annoying. (All listening was with dedicated audio window PC i7 based, Roon and HQplayer, AQ Jitterbug, wire world USB cable (red one), USB regen with stock PSU, Gustard. Upsampling all music to DSD128). Then I switched to the level 1 mod Gustard, same level and same songs that I played in the last 20 minutes. Immediately images had tighter focus, there was more transparency (quieter background), the stage was wider and deeper, and image location was more specific. Bass was tighter and had better definition, the air in the body of a double bass was more distinct, the softest tympani taps were distinct as individual strikes (as opposed to a rumble) and the air in the tympani kettle was more apparent. There was a more relaxed feeling much like going from really good digital to really good analog. It seemed like there was more energy, but my writing skills and vocabulary cannot begin to describe that effect. Music was just more involving with the L1 X20u, more real you don't want to turn it off, just keep listening.
Now is this a night and day difference comparable to go from $300 bookshelf speakers to $10K speakers, no. To me it is a very significant change that involves me more in the music in a way I have not been involved before. I mentioned much earlier in this thread about a paradigm shift. The L1 is what I talk about. The Stock Gustard is just a REALLY nice audio component that I very happily would own and enjoy until that next great unit comes along that involves me more in the music. The L1 does that and more, paradigm shift. I am stunned such a modest cost unit can deliver such an experience.
I just started the Level 1 mod's to my friends Gustard. Today I pulled the steel hardware from the tranny's and placed them up on 1/4" thick basswood. I removed all shrink and twisted all 5 runs of the AC lines and I wrapped the fuse in copper foil. I will report on it's progress Tuesday as my next serious listening session is Monday evening.
As Ric mentioned I maybe the only person currently who has a very close to level 1 mod and did the upgrades in stages listening after each. I also have a friends STOCK Gustard here which has been burning in for more than a week. I can compare that unit to my level 1 unit. Friday evening the stock X20u had over 170 hours on it, I listened to it for a couple of hours; IT is a really nice dac as it is stock and you would not think you are missing anything at all. It checks most of the boxes Tonality, transparency, huge stage, solid palpable well defined images, dynamic and great bass. I was enjoying it, my only concern was a very slight digititis which if you had a full SS system and brightish speakers may be annoying. (All listening was with dedicated audio window PC i7 based, Roon and HQplayer, AQ Jitterbug, wire world USB cable (red one), USB regen with stock PSU, Gustard. Upsampling all music to DSD128). Then I switched to the level 1 mod Gustard, same level and same songs that I played in the last 20 minutes. Immediately images had tighter focus, there was more transparency (quieter background), the stage was wider and deeper, and image location was more specific. Bass was tighter and had better definition, the air in the body of a double bass was more distinct, the softest tympani taps were distinct as individual strikes (as opposed to a rumble) and the air in the tympani kettle was more apparent. There was a more relaxed feeling much like going from really good digital to really good analog. It seemed like there was more energy, but my writing skills and vocabulary cannot begin to describe that effect. Music was just more involving with the L1 X20u, more real you don't want to turn it off, just keep listening.
Now is this a night and day difference comparable to go from $300 bookshelf speakers to $10K speakers, no. To me it is a very significant change that involves me more in the music in a way I have not been involved before. I mentioned much earlier in this thread about a paradigm shift. The L1 is what I talk about. The Stock Gustard is just a REALLY nice audio component that I very happily would own and enjoy until that next great unit comes along that involves me more in the music. The L1 does that and more, paradigm shift. I am stunned such a modest cost unit can deliver such an experience.
I just started the Level 1 mod's to my friends Gustard. Today I pulled the steel hardware from the tranny's and placed them up on 1/4" thick basswood. I removed all shrink and twisted all 5 runs of the AC lines and I wrapped the fuse in copper foil. I will report on it's progress Tuesday as my next serious listening session is Monday evening.
Thanks, I only found out recently myself.
Sounds like a great plan indeed, or else I would also build a set of discrete filters right after it.
Amir message Forexmen on EBay, you can usually get the X20 for less. His customer service and promptness is second to none.
I have 2 Custards now with the first for modding purposes. I can't see it getting much better from stock, great DAC as it is.
I have 2 Custards now with the first for modding purposes. I can't see it getting much better from stock, great DAC as it is.
.Last night I listened to the slightly modded dac and it has improved some (@211 hours). Tighter images, slightly quieter background, touch more transparency. I really enjoyed listening to it. Then I went to my level 1 dac, lets just say the slightly modded one has a ways to go before I think paradigm shift. The next set of mods are scheduled for this weekend when I finish the AC mod (remove pc board soldered to IEC and solder Tranny wires directly to IEC, remove wire lead from IEC PC board to front pc board this eliminates the ac line filtering and on/off switch). I will also damp the IEC with some Ear material that Ric has mentioned. I plan to leave the fuse (wrapped) in the circuit so anyone, even me, could swap to a audiophile fuse down the road.
Next report on progress will be next Tuesday. This is fun.
Next report on progress will be next Tuesday. This is fun.
Exciting news, over at head-fi forum on the Gustard X20 thread @bitcars in post #712 (page 48) details how to get the gustard to up sample to DSD256 using the DIYinHK 3.34 driver. I followed his instructions except I turned off digital signing in win 10, it installed with no issues. My first attempt to play DSD256 did not go as planned as the dac showed DSD128, but task manager showed CPU usage in the mid-20's so it was up sampling to 256. I use HQPlayer, so I read some of Jussi's comments on setting up HQP I had copied from the forums. There he states if you have a native DSD ASIO driver (apparently the DIYinHK driver is) then under SDM pack settings you can select none (whereas previously with the 3.2 driver I selected SDM). I selected none and hit play and the Gustard display showed DSD256!! and task manager showed CPU usage at low 20's. Finally we have a driver that will let us play DSD256 with no beeps after 60 minutes. Not an earth shattering difference but a nice step forward. There seemed more transparency, more information, subtle details were presented more clearly, more relaxed analog sound. It just involved me more in the music.
I have also been working on my friends X20u and have now completed the full AC mod and damped most of the larger capacitors with the Ear sd40al material. In my AC mod I wrap the fuse, I know most of you are uncomfortable with this so get a reasonably priced audiophile fuse. This upgrade is pretty significant and will get you probably 85% of the way to the full mod with the difference being a touch less transparency and a reduced sound stage size with performers not as solidly located within it. This is something you would not even miss with just the AC mod, that is until you hear the full mod then you understand. Friday I will pull the output boards diodes and replace with Ric's recommended ones and probably Sunday I will solder in a custom coax that I made. Then I am only missing the Quantum chips.
I have also been working on my friends X20u and have now completed the full AC mod and damped most of the larger capacitors with the Ear sd40al material. In my AC mod I wrap the fuse, I know most of you are uncomfortable with this so get a reasonably priced audiophile fuse. This upgrade is pretty significant and will get you probably 85% of the way to the full mod with the difference being a touch less transparency and a reduced sound stage size with performers not as solidly located within it. This is something you would not even miss with just the AC mod, that is until you hear the full mod then you understand. Friday I will pull the output boards diodes and replace with Ric's recommended ones and probably Sunday I will solder in a custom coax that I made. Then I am only missing the Quantum chips.
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Interesting thread. How does the unit perform for PCM? (Most of the detail seems to be on native DSD or PCM to DSD upsampling) Is there a path to getting i2S input from a (Windows) computer source? And is there an ASIO driver to allow use of HQPlayer / NAA?
You should also try PCM -> DSD256 in realtime with the latest Audirvana+ beta if you have a Mac (info over at CA)!
How, if at all, do you get i2S into the DAC from a (Windows) PC source? Does it work with the Pink Faun i2S PCIe Card?
The Pink Faun is a really nice card. I think it converts everything to 32bit 192 kHz PCM
and transfers it via it's LVDS I2S HDMI port. I don't think it currently does DSD at all.
As for connection to an X20. I'm pretty sure they will customise the cards LVDS I2S HDMI port
to suit the Gustards spec. Make sure you purchase direct from them and they will do this
for you at no charge I believe.
Once you've installed the card into your computer, all you will need is a good quality HDMI
cable to plug it into your X20.
I heard one of these cards in use a while back, and it was very good.
Whether it's better/worse than any of the other options for computer based connection is difficult
to say. If you're not into tweaking, the latest BIG thing, or high sample rate DSD/PCM etc etc, it may
indeed be a very nice simple fit and forget solution, for quite a reasonable price.
Cheers
Simon
and transfers it via it's LVDS I2S HDMI port. I don't think it currently does DSD at all.
As for connection to an X20. I'm pretty sure they will customise the cards LVDS I2S HDMI port
to suit the Gustards spec. Make sure you purchase direct from them and they will do this
for you at no charge I believe.
Once you've installed the card into your computer, all you will need is a good quality HDMI
cable to plug it into your X20.
I heard one of these cards in use a while back, and it was very good.
Whether it's better/worse than any of the other options for computer based connection is difficult
to say. If you're not into tweaking, the latest BIG thing, or high sample rate DSD/PCM etc etc, it may
indeed be a very nice simple fit and forget solution, for quite a reasonable price.
Cheers
Simon
I used to use Audirvana 1.5x with my Mac even last year and liked the sound, but moving to the PC caused me to look elsewhere for another up sampling program and HqPlayer sounds very nice to my ears. I have enough changes going on now to even consider that move.
@Zydeco yes I believe the 3.34 driver from DIYinHK is ASIO it certainly works with my set up, basic Roon core win 10 pc, connected via usb to X20u dac. HQP up samples to 256.
I am asking everywhere, has anyone gotten the X20u to play a DSD512 signal? I would assume owners of the Gustard u12 or similar tanly unit could, in theory, play DSD512 via a i2s connection to the X20u. I don't remember reading anywhere of someone doing this. I wonder if the X20u is even capable of DSD512?
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