@YashN I know what the specs say, has anyone actually played DSD512 thru the X20u? Real world results are more relevant than the written word. I do not remember one report on all the thread pages written on this dac saying someone has played DSD512 thru the X20u and there are people who own both the X20u and the u12.
EVS modified Gustard X20/Gustard X20 thread
- Thread starter Ric Schultz
- Start date
He does not have a u12 or Tanly. We WILL find out if we can get 512 into the Gustard. When? Hopefully soon.
So late afternoon yesterday, I swapped the stock diodes on on the output board with Ric's suggested ones. Now my buddies dac is only missing the custom coax cable from a full L1 dac mod. I let it run with a signal for 4 hours before I listened to it. While it was settling in I listened to my L1 dac on DSD256, I must say I really like the sound at this resolution, density of information is probably one of the best descriptions I can come up with. The stage is huge, of course, but the solidity, presence and energy of all performers is what grabs your attention. It could for persons who have only heard redbook PCM or up sampled PCM be a bit unsettling, off maybe? I have asked myself more than once is there a phase(y) thing going on because of this density of information. Then when you start to break performers down individually you realize that it is as it should be they are tightly focused, located in a specific place in the stage with great transparency and what I call palpable presence and a dynamic energy that you do not quite get with PCM. Now PCM is also very good but lacks that extra amount of "density" that DSD256 provides.
On to the diode change, I replayed the same tracks I had just listened to with my L1 dac at the same volume. Things were coming together very nicely and I was hearing only slight differences between my L1 and his close to L1 dac. Confession, his dac has a different oscillator clock than my dac. Mine was purchased in late February and has a Gustard labeled clock which is a slightly different size than his (purchased in mid April) Accusilicon labeled clock, so they are most likely different clocks and until they both have the same level of mod, it will be hard to make comments on his dac vs. my dac. So my comments are based on how his dac is improving compared to my dac and am I getting the same "density of information" that I get with mine. I will speculate that his dac has a bit more weight to the bass while mine is maybe more focused and tighter and his dac (to use a common audiophile comparison) would be a touch on the tube side and mine a touch on the SS side. Once I solder in the new coax cable on both dacs (so they are the same, pure silver) then I can make some sound comparisons. As it is now I really enjoyed listening to music with both dacs and feel as tho my buddies dac with the diode change has moved into that paradigm shift territory I mentioned much earlier in this thread. With the same coax cable in each will the new accusilicon clock dac beat the Gustard clock dac. We will see, that is a story for next week.
On to the diode change, I replayed the same tracks I had just listened to with my L1 dac at the same volume. Things were coming together very nicely and I was hearing only slight differences between my L1 and his close to L1 dac. Confession, his dac has a different oscillator clock than my dac. Mine was purchased in late February and has a Gustard labeled clock which is a slightly different size than his (purchased in mid April) Accusilicon labeled clock, so they are most likely different clocks and until they both have the same level of mod, it will be hard to make comments on his dac vs. my dac. So my comments are based on how his dac is improving compared to my dac and am I getting the same "density of information" that I get with mine. I will speculate that his dac has a bit more weight to the bass while mine is maybe more focused and tighter and his dac (to use a common audiophile comparison) would be a touch on the tube side and mine a touch on the SS side. Once I solder in the new coax cable on both dacs (so they are the same, pure silver) then I can make some sound comparisons. As it is now I really enjoyed listening to music with both dacs and feel as tho my buddies dac with the diode change has moved into that paradigm shift territory I mentioned much earlier in this thread. With the same coax cable in each will the new accusilicon clock dac beat the Gustard clock dac. We will see, that is a story for next week.
I have a level 2 mod now available. Basically I remove the entire output stage and replace it with a pair of de-nuded expensive amorphous core Lundahl transformers. The mod gives 2 volts rms and 350 ohms output impedance. Please see my website for more info. Shipping now. http://tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Gustard_X20_Mods.html
Please excuse the pic of the sloppy looking unit as this first customer for the trannies was in a hurry and I did not have time to clean up the wiring and damping material to make it look more professional. I have another one here I will be wiring up soon and will take a pic of it to replace the one on the site.
So cool that Quadman has found this driver that will make the Gustard work with DSD256 via usb. Now we can work on getting DSD512 into it.....soon I am sure.
Quadman has written (at my request) a whole novelette on how to make your own inexpensive good computer to run Roon and HQplayer. I will be putting all the info and pics on my site over the next few days (hopefully all done this weekend). I will then build my own (using his info as guide) and provide more info as I build it as I am a total novice in this stuff. This should be a great intro and super informative for anyone who wants to get HQplayer into a Gustard or other DAC. I will eventually have setting recommendations, etc. This will be fun!
What is so cool is that I am just listening to 16/44 via my modded Oppo 103D.....I have never listened to HQplayer upsampling to DSD256......I mean, the modified Gustard sounds really great just playing 16/44.........What will it sound like upsampled? Can hardly wait. I have read what others have said and they are thrilled with the difference.
Please excuse the pic of the sloppy looking unit as this first customer for the trannies was in a hurry and I did not have time to clean up the wiring and damping material to make it look more professional. I have another one here I will be wiring up soon and will take a pic of it to replace the one on the site.
So cool that Quadman has found this driver that will make the Gustard work with DSD256 via usb. Now we can work on getting DSD512 into it.....soon I am sure.
Quadman has written (at my request) a whole novelette on how to make your own inexpensive good computer to run Roon and HQplayer. I will be putting all the info and pics on my site over the next few days (hopefully all done this weekend). I will then build my own (using his info as guide) and provide more info as I build it as I am a total novice in this stuff. This should be a great intro and super informative for anyone who wants to get HQplayer into a Gustard or other DAC. I will eventually have setting recommendations, etc. This will be fun!
What is so cool is that I am just listening to 16/44 via my modded Oppo 103D.....I have never listened to HQplayer upsampling to DSD256......I mean, the modified Gustard sounds really great just playing 16/44.........What will it sound like upsampled? Can hardly wait. I have read what others have said and they are thrilled with the difference.
Just a quick post, for all those who use a DDC (Tanley/F-1/U-12/SU-1/WaveIO etc) with
their X20.
Removal of the unused internal USB card from the X20 appears to give a surprising
boost in overall sound quality !!
Like many, I started off using the very decent internal USB card, before moving on
to an external DDC. However, I never really gave the internal card much thought once
I had my DDC plugged into the HDMI slot, and basically pretty much forgot about it.
However, a few days ago I ended up removing it, and discovered sound quality had bumped
up a significant notch.
I only use the HDMI input, so can't vouch for improvements to those using the other
inputs. But, since this is such a simple and easily reversible modification, it's
surely worth a try.
Hardest part is the removal of the back panel and it's fixings. It just needs
easing out half an inch, with the lid off, so you can pop the USB card out.
Everyone using a DDC, or external transport etc, should give this a whirl if they're
confident in opening up their DAC's case. The lid is quite stiff and needs a small
alan key (or similar) carefully put into one of the vent holes to aid lifting.
Regards
Simon
their X20.
Removal of the unused internal USB card from the X20 appears to give a surprising
boost in overall sound quality !!
Like many, I started off using the very decent internal USB card, before moving on
to an external DDC. However, I never really gave the internal card much thought once
I had my DDC plugged into the HDMI slot, and basically pretty much forgot about it.
However, a few days ago I ended up removing it, and discovered sound quality had bumped
up a significant notch.
I only use the HDMI input, so can't vouch for improvements to those using the other
inputs. But, since this is such a simple and easily reversible modification, it's
surely worth a try.
Hardest part is the removal of the back panel and it's fixings. It just needs
easing out half an inch, with the lid off, so you can pop the USB card out.
Everyone using a DDC, or external transport etc, should give this a whirl if they're
confident in opening up their DAC's case. The lid is quite stiff and needs a small
alan key (or similar) carefully put into one of the vent holes to aid lifting.
Regards
Simon
@simonbromleyuk great find on the usb card removal. I am still working on my friends X20 and have now installed the custom coax cable and because of some sonic differences between my dac and his, I want to reverse the direction of his coax cable (it does appear to be very directional) and listen to it that way to determine which way is best. Both dacs as they are, sound very good and only in comparison to one another does one pick up differences and the desire to see if they can change/make better one area. So no further report on the sound differences between the clocks and until I get them at the exact same mod level with the same parts I cannot. I still tend to think my description above on the two is still accurate for now. Regardless, a modded x20 will beat a stock x20 by a significant margin.
Once I finish the mod on my buddies dac I plan to turn my attention to a ddc card and try to get it to work with the Gustard via the hdmi port or directly into then PCIe port. Simon's work on this has inspired me to go in that direction. More work to do.
Once I finish the mod on my buddies dac I plan to turn my attention to a ddc card and try to get it to work with the Gustard via the hdmi port or directly into then PCIe port. Simon's work on this has inspired me to go in that direction. More work to do.
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Simon,
I have thought of removing the usb card to see if it improved the sound but it did not look easy......but after reading your description of the improvement using the HDMI input I decided to see if my using the coax input results in the same improvement. I am just listening to 16/44 via coax from my modded Oppo 103D but it does sound really nice.........now, with the usb board removed......it sounds mucho better. It is like going from 16/44 to 24/96. There is more information and more reality. Everyone who is not using the usb board will have noticeably better sound with it removed. This is exactly why the internet is so powerful. People from around the world can help each other get better sound. Thanks Simon!
The board was not easy to remove. I had to undo all the screws on the digital board as well and disconnect the digital cable between the digital board and the output board so I could tilt the digital board so as to free the back panel enough to lift out the usb board. The dang push part of the xlr input hangs it up. Not impossible and nothing can get wrecked but does take some patience and control.
I am really looking forward to making my own Audio PC and playing files upsampled to DSD256 or 512 into the Gustard.......lots of fun ahead!
I have thought of removing the usb card to see if it improved the sound but it did not look easy......but after reading your description of the improvement using the HDMI input I decided to see if my using the coax input results in the same improvement. I am just listening to 16/44 via coax from my modded Oppo 103D but it does sound really nice.........now, with the usb board removed......it sounds mucho better. It is like going from 16/44 to 24/96. There is more information and more reality. Everyone who is not using the usb board will have noticeably better sound with it removed. This is exactly why the internet is so powerful. People from around the world can help each other get better sound. Thanks Simon!
The board was not easy to remove. I had to undo all the screws on the digital board as well and disconnect the digital cable between the digital board and the output board so I could tilt the digital board so as to free the back panel enough to lift out the usb board. The dang push part of the xlr input hangs it up. Not impossible and nothing can get wrecked but does take some patience and control.
I am really looking forward to making my own Audio PC and playing files upsampled to DSD256 or 512 into the Gustard.......lots of fun ahead!
Hi Ric
I'm glad the USB card removal mod worked out for you. The location does make it
a PIA to get out though.
One of the reasons I'm a little cautious posting about this diy stuff, is I've
had several people message me asking for detailed instructions, or to post up some
kind of guide for them to follow. This makes me a bit nervous ..
If they knew what kind of a 'wing and a prayer, bodge merchant' I really was, I'm sure
they would definitely not be asking in the first place. Lol ...
For example, I too found the push release on the XLR input a pain, so I just cut it off.
I'm never going to use it, so why not. Same with the transformer side of things. I've bypassed
the fuses in my gear for years. So, I simply wired a heavy gauge sheilded power cord direct to
the transformers. Then took out all the psu boards and redundant power switch. Leaving more
space inside to move the transformers a bit further away from the digital board.
I have no idea if the magnetic fields affect the clocks in any way, but they always seemed
a bit close to each other for my liking. (equipment is not powered 24/7, only when I'm there
as I am often away)
However, a lot of the stuff I do tends to be either a bit destructive, or potentially
dangerous. I'm happy to take the risks, but don't want anyone to blindly think 'Hey I'll
try that' without doing their own research and risk assessment first.
Of course, this doesn't apply to those who already have the diy bug. Because, as we all know
once you're hooked, nothing will stand in your way. Lol ...
I'm away for a few days now, but will be looking at maybe removing the PCIe socket entirely
and wiring direct, when I get back. Also, I'm wondering if all the other input socketry stuff
is always active, and maybe about disconnecting it, leaving just the USB terminals and HDMI
as a back up ? Dangerous thoughts to have with a soldering iron in your hand !!
That cardboard under the transformers mod works well by the way Ric. Thanks...
I also then used some to lift and separate the internal psu cables so they were held (mostly)
+10mm or so away from any metal work. (well you never know, it might help a fraction)
Having got the WaveIO up and running using the PCIe slot, and also running 44.1 upsampled to
DSD 256 from HQplayer. I know that you're going to be in for a real treat once you get something
similar set up ... The move from using the HDMI input to direct into the PCIe slot is an even larger
upgrade than the USB card removal mod.
Best regards
Simon
I'm glad the USB card removal mod worked out for you. The location does make it
a PIA to get out though.
One of the reasons I'm a little cautious posting about this diy stuff, is I've
had several people message me asking for detailed instructions, or to post up some
kind of guide for them to follow. This makes me a bit nervous ..
If they knew what kind of a 'wing and a prayer, bodge merchant' I really was, I'm sure
they would definitely not be asking in the first place. Lol ...
For example, I too found the push release on the XLR input a pain, so I just cut it off.
I'm never going to use it, so why not. Same with the transformer side of things. I've bypassed
the fuses in my gear for years. So, I simply wired a heavy gauge sheilded power cord direct to
the transformers. Then took out all the psu boards and redundant power switch. Leaving more
space inside to move the transformers a bit further away from the digital board.
I have no idea if the magnetic fields affect the clocks in any way, but they always seemed
a bit close to each other for my liking. (equipment is not powered 24/7, only when I'm there
as I am often away)
However, a lot of the stuff I do tends to be either a bit destructive, or potentially
dangerous. I'm happy to take the risks, but don't want anyone to blindly think 'Hey I'll
try that' without doing their own research and risk assessment first.
Of course, this doesn't apply to those who already have the diy bug. Because, as we all know
once you're hooked, nothing will stand in your way. Lol ...
I'm away for a few days now, but will be looking at maybe removing the PCIe socket entirely
and wiring direct, when I get back. Also, I'm wondering if all the other input socketry stuff
is always active, and maybe about disconnecting it, leaving just the USB terminals and HDMI
as a back up ? Dangerous thoughts to have with a soldering iron in your hand !!
That cardboard under the transformers mod works well by the way Ric. Thanks...
I also then used some to lift and separate the internal psu cables so they were held (mostly)
+10mm or so away from any metal work. (well you never know, it might help a fraction)
Having got the WaveIO up and running using the PCIe slot, and also running 44.1 upsampled to
DSD 256 from HQplayer. I know that you're going to be in for a real treat once you get something
similar set up ... The move from using the HDMI input to direct into the PCIe slot is an even larger
upgrade than the USB card removal mod.
Best regards
Simon
I'm jealous I run USB from PC to X20 so no card removal until my DDC shows up and I successfully wire it internally.
Last night I did something interesting, as reported above after soldering in my custom Silver coax cable into my buddies dac, I noted that the sound was a bit off compared to my L1 dac. Now this is said only comparing one dac to another. Listening to his X20 with the silver coax you would have been very satisfied with the sound, I listened for several hours and enjoyed it. So last night I switched the direction this cable ran and OMG, WOW what a change for the better! the stage became bigger, images had tighter focus and the transparency left my dac in the dust, well not really but it was more transparent. So who and the heck (other than Ric, hehe) would have thought a 6.25" solid silver cable carrying a digital signal would be that directional. It was a major change. So tonight I will solder a similar cable into my dac, hoping to get direction right the first time, no arrows, just trial and error.
So if you want to try and switch your stock coax cable around to see it's effect. It is pretty easy, remove the top cover and you will see this gold/copper wire running from the digital board to the output board, mark one side so you can keep track, unscrew it from the tower and turn it around re-screw it on and listen. I am pretty sure they don't listen to which way is right just reach in a box and grab one.
Last mod left after the silver coax is applying the quantum chips that Ric brags about. I'll report on that as well as my sound impressions of the different oscillator clocks in the two dacs.
Last night I did something interesting, as reported above after soldering in my custom Silver coax cable into my buddies dac, I noted that the sound was a bit off compared to my L1 dac. Now this is said only comparing one dac to another. Listening to his X20 with the silver coax you would have been very satisfied with the sound, I listened for several hours and enjoyed it. So last night I switched the direction this cable ran and OMG, WOW what a change for the better! the stage became bigger, images had tighter focus and the transparency left my dac in the dust, well not really but it was more transparent. So who and the heck (other than Ric, hehe) would have thought a 6.25" solid silver cable carrying a digital signal would be that directional. It was a major change. So tonight I will solder a similar cable into my dac, hoping to get direction right the first time, no arrows, just trial and error.
So if you want to try and switch your stock coax cable around to see it's effect. It is pretty easy, remove the top cover and you will see this gold/copper wire running from the digital board to the output board, mark one side so you can keep track, unscrew it from the tower and turn it around re-screw it on and listen. I am pretty sure they don't listen to which way is right just reach in a box and grab one.
Last mod left after the silver coax is applying the quantum chips that Ric brags about. I'll report on that as well as my sound impressions of the different oscillator clocks in the two dacs.
Hi John/Ric
I'm up to my eyes in it at the moment, helping an elderly relative
move from a big old 4 bedroom house to a 1 bedroom apartment.
(ie: doing all the donky work. Lol ...)
There's lots of 'Oh, I did I forget about all the huge piles of stuff
down in the basement (with the dangeous stairs) that's all got to be
sorted too'. You know the type of thing ...
Anyway, I read the above post about the coax cable. Really interesting stuff.
I'm sold ....
Couple of things though. Any thoughts on cable & supplier ?
In the past I've mainly used VH Audio, as I rather like their Airloc OCC series.
I was thinking of buying a couple of feet of their 24awg Unicrystal silver OCC in cotton.
As well as a couple of feet of the same, but with the Airloc coating.
And some other bits and pieces of wire for future use.
So, contentious question No1. OCC 'silver' or 'copper' in cotton ?
Contentious question No2. I will quite happily make a fully enclosed, earthed 1mm thick
insulated copper bridging duct (inch x inch? square ), with any cabling centralised by cotton
filler, to act as an RFI screen. The reason I mention this is because I was wondering if having
an identical return cable to the digital send cable (directions reversed?) may be of any
sonic benefit? rather than using the coax shielding as the earth return path.
I have no idea if this would produce any benefits or not. However, I've got lots of
copper sheet and a workshop, so doing this is no problem.
More importantly, is there any obvious reason not to do this?
If it's just a bit daft to try, but won't actually compromise anything, I'm perfectly
happy to give it a go just for the heck of it.
Then the question would be, 2 spaced cotton cables, or 2 twisted Airloc cables?
Anyones thoughts on this would be most welcome.
Regards
Simon
I'm up to my eyes in it at the moment, helping an elderly relative
move from a big old 4 bedroom house to a 1 bedroom apartment.
(ie: doing all the donky work. Lol ...)
There's lots of 'Oh, I did I forget about all the huge piles of stuff
down in the basement (with the dangeous stairs) that's all got to be
sorted too'. You know the type of thing ...
Anyway, I read the above post about the coax cable. Really interesting stuff.
I'm sold ....
Couple of things though. Any thoughts on cable & supplier ?
In the past I've mainly used VH Audio, as I rather like their Airloc OCC series.
I was thinking of buying a couple of feet of their 24awg Unicrystal silver OCC in cotton.
As well as a couple of feet of the same, but with the Airloc coating.
And some other bits and pieces of wire for future use.
So, contentious question No1. OCC 'silver' or 'copper' in cotton ?
Contentious question No2. I will quite happily make a fully enclosed, earthed 1mm thick
insulated copper bridging duct (inch x inch? square ), with any cabling centralised by cotton
filler, to act as an RFI screen. The reason I mention this is because I was wondering if having
an identical return cable to the digital send cable (directions reversed?) may be of any
sonic benefit? rather than using the coax shielding as the earth return path.
I have no idea if this would produce any benefits or not. However, I've got lots of
copper sheet and a workshop, so doing this is no problem.
More importantly, is there any obvious reason not to do this?
If it's just a bit daft to try, but won't actually compromise anything, I'm perfectly
happy to give it a go just for the heck of it.
Then the question would be, 2 spaced cotton cables, or 2 twisted Airloc cables?
Anyones thoughts on this would be most welcome.
Regards
Simon
Both my dac and my friends dac are now what Ric would call full Level 1 dac's (the difference being the oscillator clocks, standard Gustard labeled one and newer Accusilicon one). I applied one of Ric's favorite tweaks (WA Quantum Chips) to the ESS chips, and to the large power caps and the FGPA chip on the digital board. I must say I was very skeptical, these just look like fancy stickers, the adhesive back side is silver like the inside of most mylar balloons with a high quality embossed paper cover. They say on their site they are tuned for the device they are made for; Capacitor chips, fuse chips, cable chips, semiconductor chips etc. Man that sounds like audiophile snake oil if I ever heard it. Ric swears by them and so far he has not steered me wrong, so $60 bucks for 2 dacs, I'll bite.
Since my friends dac is easier to access I applied them to his first, Listened for a couple of hours, I liked what I heard but it was not that different then before. Then I played 3 very well known tracks, to me, and switched to my dac and played the same 3 tracks. Hmmm I liked mine better it seemed like his dac closed the stage down a bit and the bass was softer, maybe fatter compared to my dac. I listened to mine for a bit then the same 3 songs and back to his dac, same impression. I was not impressed so far. The next day, memorial day, I was doing a long big meat cook on the BBQ and fired up the system around noon, my friends dac playing, about 4 hours into it I sat and listened and thought this is sounding pretty good, so played the same 3 tracks and switched to mine. Now the results were different his stage was larger, the bass was much tighter than before and the transparency level was up. My dac sounded a bit flat against his. I listened to mine a bit then same 3 songs and back to his, same impression, I was liking his more. So of course I applied the chips to my dac and let it run with signal for 3 hours while I continued to listen to my friends dac. Played the same 3 songs and switched to my dac, this was more like it mine was still a bit behind his but the gap was closing and it was better than with no chips. So I let mine run with signal for the entire night while I listened to his. Yesterday was another shootout and both dacs now had about 14 hours of signal with the chips. They are pretty close in SQ; big stage, very very transparent, lots of presence, tonality spot on, highs to die for just very very engaging. I must say after 5-6 hours of playing the chips did improve and continued to improve for a bit longer (if they are still improving it is hard to tell as both dac's improve together). I would have to say it was well worth $30 a dac to get this SQ improvement.
The dacs, both excellent, do sound a bit different which I attribute to the clocks and to really get a handle on what is what I need more listening time as first impressions can become, what did I do after long term listening. (I am sure if you have been in the hobby long enough that has happened to you). As a general statement I think his dac has sharper better defined leading edges of transients which provides a touch more jump factor, it may also have a bit more transparency. My dac with the Gustard labeled clock is possibly a touch more relaxed with great weight in the bass but possibly a touch fatter, it also has lots of information but may not capture the most tiny inner detail as the accusilicon clock. Both dac's are a joy to listen to and I like which ever one is playing at the time which is good news to owners of the older, stock Gustard clock. We don't have to sell our dac's to get the new chip. More listening will further clarify this observation and if my opinion changes much I will report.
The DSD512 project I can report I ordered the card a week ago and today finally settled on the external PSU I need to provide 2x3.3Vdc output. Unfortunately both items are coming from China via Hong Kong Post and I expect a 2 week delivery time. All other things needed for this project are ordered and will be ready as soon as the PSU board hits. I think I have a good handle on how to connect everything internally with fitment being the biggest obstacle and will probably require some case cutting to provide access to the USB input on the Chinese DSD card. So hopefully by 3rd week June I should have this project up and running and we will see if DSD512 is possible with this dac (I know the specs say so but some folks claim ESS has never officially stated support for DSD512 with the 9018 chip) and if playback is stable at that rate. I have a i7-4790 processor that is only using 22-25% at DSD256 so 512 should be no problem for that machine. A big shout out to @SimonBromley for his help on this project as he has already connected his Wave I/O card internally in the X20 and can playback DSD256 with it.
Since my friends dac is easier to access I applied them to his first, Listened for a couple of hours, I liked what I heard but it was not that different then before. Then I played 3 very well known tracks, to me, and switched to my dac and played the same 3 tracks. Hmmm I liked mine better it seemed like his dac closed the stage down a bit and the bass was softer, maybe fatter compared to my dac. I listened to mine for a bit then the same 3 songs and back to his dac, same impression. I was not impressed so far. The next day, memorial day, I was doing a long big meat cook on the BBQ and fired up the system around noon, my friends dac playing, about 4 hours into it I sat and listened and thought this is sounding pretty good, so played the same 3 tracks and switched to mine. Now the results were different his stage was larger, the bass was much tighter than before and the transparency level was up. My dac sounded a bit flat against his. I listened to mine a bit then same 3 songs and back to his, same impression, I was liking his more. So of course I applied the chips to my dac and let it run with signal for 3 hours while I continued to listen to my friends dac. Played the same 3 songs and switched to my dac, this was more like it mine was still a bit behind his but the gap was closing and it was better than with no chips. So I let mine run with signal for the entire night while I listened to his. Yesterday was another shootout and both dacs now had about 14 hours of signal with the chips. They are pretty close in SQ; big stage, very very transparent, lots of presence, tonality spot on, highs to die for just very very engaging. I must say after 5-6 hours of playing the chips did improve and continued to improve for a bit longer (if they are still improving it is hard to tell as both dac's improve together). I would have to say it was well worth $30 a dac to get this SQ improvement.
The dacs, both excellent, do sound a bit different which I attribute to the clocks and to really get a handle on what is what I need more listening time as first impressions can become, what did I do after long term listening. (I am sure if you have been in the hobby long enough that has happened to you). As a general statement I think his dac has sharper better defined leading edges of transients which provides a touch more jump factor, it may also have a bit more transparency. My dac with the Gustard labeled clock is possibly a touch more relaxed with great weight in the bass but possibly a touch fatter, it also has lots of information but may not capture the most tiny inner detail as the accusilicon clock. Both dac's are a joy to listen to and I like which ever one is playing at the time which is good news to owners of the older, stock Gustard clock. We don't have to sell our dac's to get the new chip. More listening will further clarify this observation and if my opinion changes much I will report.
The DSD512 project I can report I ordered the card a week ago and today finally settled on the external PSU I need to provide 2x3.3Vdc output. Unfortunately both items are coming from China via Hong Kong Post and I expect a 2 week delivery time. All other things needed for this project are ordered and will be ready as soon as the PSU board hits. I think I have a good handle on how to connect everything internally with fitment being the biggest obstacle and will probably require some case cutting to provide access to the USB input on the Chinese DSD card. So hopefully by 3rd week June I should have this project up and running and we will see if DSD512 is possible with this dac (I know the specs say so but some folks claim ESS has never officially stated support for DSD512 with the 9018 chip) and if playback is stable at that rate. I have a i7-4790 processor that is only using 22-25% at DSD256 so 512 should be no problem for that machine. A big shout out to @SimonBromley for his help on this project as he has already connected his Wave I/O card internally in the X20 and can playback DSD256 with it.
So the little stickers (Quantum Chips) that you applied to some of the caps actually have a burn in time.......interesting......
Cheers........
@MRJAZZ in my experience it appears they do, Simon in a PM also felt they took some time to settle in. This is weird to me because they look just like fancy stickers to me, why the break in time, unless they do have an effect on a component and that component now needs to settle in with the change. It was the last mod I did because I was most skeptical of it. I must say it certainly was worth $ and time to install.
Great write up Quadman. Very informative ...
Those WA Quantum chips are strange. They definitely alter the sound quite
significantly, negatively at first, then after about 6/8 hours positively.
There does seem to be a fair increase in overall naturalness and inner
detail, at least to my ears. ( especially considering the low cost of this mod )
So far I have only done the 2xFPGA's and 2xDAC chips as I was a touch sceptical
about their function. However, now I know they work, will be purchasing more
for the capacitors etc ...
Good to hear your opinion on the clocks, and it'll be interesting to see what
you think after some longer term testing.
Anyway, I've been thinking about how best to hardwire the WaveIO to the X20.
Lucian, who produces the WaveIO, made a good suggestion, saying that to keep
things nice and simple. Just solder the relevant wires to the underside pin
bases on the PCIe socket.
I took the digital board out to take a look, and though it is a bit fiddly, if you're
proficient enough to solder the coax cable in, this should pose no real problem.
However, looking at wire routing and board placements, in the end I 'bit the
bullet' so to speak, and chopped the PCIe socket off. I did this by nibbling
away at it with some small wire cutters (top down) until just the base wiring
was left intact. I was careful not to actually touch the PCB at any point, so
there was no risk to the traces. My back-up being that if all went wrong I
could still wire up to the bottom pin out points. That was yesterday night,
today I am going to (attempt to) wire the WaveIO in.
( all pins pre-tested and mapped in advance of course )
I'm not touching the HDMI side of things at all, as that is my back-up input.
However, the future of the other inputs looks bleak, as I want to place the
WaveIO in that area. I simply don't see me ever using the bnc/coax/xlr
inputs at all. So, I think they're going to go, as I'd like a flatter area
to work with here.
Additionally, looking at these inputs, it appears that they get routed
through a switching chip, then into the main FPGA, from where they are sent
out to the Crystal receiver chip off to one side, before going back into the
FPGA again, which does whatever? it does, and then finally gets sent to the
coax for transmission to the DAC's on the output board.
This all seems like a bit of a long winded approach to me.
Anyway, I'll post a few pictures later, once I get the WaveIO wired up for testing.
Regards
Simon
Those WA Quantum chips are strange. They definitely alter the sound quite
significantly, negatively at first, then after about 6/8 hours positively.
There does seem to be a fair increase in overall naturalness and inner
detail, at least to my ears. ( especially considering the low cost of this mod )
So far I have only done the 2xFPGA's and 2xDAC chips as I was a touch sceptical
about their function. However, now I know they work, will be purchasing more
for the capacitors etc ...
Good to hear your opinion on the clocks, and it'll be interesting to see what
you think after some longer term testing.
Anyway, I've been thinking about how best to hardwire the WaveIO to the X20.
Lucian, who produces the WaveIO, made a good suggestion, saying that to keep
things nice and simple. Just solder the relevant wires to the underside pin
bases on the PCIe socket.
I took the digital board out to take a look, and though it is a bit fiddly, if you're
proficient enough to solder the coax cable in, this should pose no real problem.
However, looking at wire routing and board placements, in the end I 'bit the
bullet' so to speak, and chopped the PCIe socket off. I did this by nibbling
away at it with some small wire cutters (top down) until just the base wiring
was left intact. I was careful not to actually touch the PCB at any point, so
there was no risk to the traces. My back-up being that if all went wrong I
could still wire up to the bottom pin out points. That was yesterday night,
today I am going to (attempt to) wire the WaveIO in.
( all pins pre-tested and mapped in advance of course )
I'm not touching the HDMI side of things at all, as that is my back-up input.
However, the future of the other inputs looks bleak, as I want to place the
WaveIO in that area. I simply don't see me ever using the bnc/coax/xlr
inputs at all. So, I think they're going to go, as I'd like a flatter area
to work with here.
Additionally, looking at these inputs, it appears that they get routed
through a switching chip, then into the main FPGA, from where they are sent
out to the Crystal receiver chip off to one side, before going back into the
FPGA again, which does whatever? it does, and then finally gets sent to the
coax for transmission to the DAC's on the output board.
This all seems like a bit of a long winded approach to me.
Anyway, I'll post a few pictures later, once I get the WaveIO wired up for testing.
Regards
Simon
Just a quick update on my PCIe endeavours.
If I was doing this again would I remove the PCIe slot, NO. I simply don't
hear any benefit between wiring direct to the PCB or using the easy, pins into the PCIe
method. However you WILL save yourself many many hours of hassle, and lots of swearing
by sticking to using pins, or possibly wiring to the base of the relevant pins under
the PCIe slot. Or, if you are tempted, wire to the original pin stubs once you cut off
the slot, going through hole proved to be a real pain ...
My soldering skills are ok-ish. However, what looks like a difficult, but do-able job starts
to get serious once you start installation. Those hook up wires are only just over an inch long.
On the advice of Lucian, who produces the WaveIO, I added a ground wire for each of the three main
transmission wires. So there are 9 wires in total. That's a lot of wiring in a very small space,
that gets crowded real quick. It was a pig of a job, and hours of squinting, even using a magnifier,
left me with a serious headache. Lol ...
If you're really hot at soldering and have better kit than me, it's probably not a problem.
However, if you're the average level DIY'er like me, the pain is just not worth the gain and
associated risk.
Oh well, just the coax mod to go now, but I will be leaving that for a week or two, when the
migraine this job left me with has gone ... Lol
Mind you, the X20 could do with some burn in hours really. The extra WA Quantum chips are coming
for the capacitors in a day or two. I'll put those on and then just let things settle in for a
good week.
Now lets see if I can add some photos?
Cheers
Simon
There should be 4 pictures. (all rough untidy test work)
One showing the pins into PEIe slot (with insulation tape pulled up a bit to show entry)
One showing the back of the PCIe slot (recommended for an easy hard wired solution)
One showing the removed PCIe slot area. (with pin bases still sticking up)
One showing WaveIO installed. I shall probably neaten the wiring etc, and maybe think about
a screening solution at some point in the near future.
If I was doing this again would I remove the PCIe slot, NO. I simply don't
hear any benefit between wiring direct to the PCB or using the easy, pins into the PCIe
method. However you WILL save yourself many many hours of hassle, and lots of swearing
by sticking to using pins, or possibly wiring to the base of the relevant pins under
the PCIe slot. Or, if you are tempted, wire to the original pin stubs once you cut off
the slot, going through hole proved to be a real pain ...
My soldering skills are ok-ish. However, what looks like a difficult, but do-able job starts
to get serious once you start installation. Those hook up wires are only just over an inch long.
On the advice of Lucian, who produces the WaveIO, I added a ground wire for each of the three main
transmission wires. So there are 9 wires in total. That's a lot of wiring in a very small space,
that gets crowded real quick. It was a pig of a job, and hours of squinting, even using a magnifier,
left me with a serious headache. Lol ...
If you're really hot at soldering and have better kit than me, it's probably not a problem.
However, if you're the average level DIY'er like me, the pain is just not worth the gain and
associated risk.
Oh well, just the coax mod to go now, but I will be leaving that for a week or two, when the
migraine this job left me with has gone ... Lol
Mind you, the X20 could do with some burn in hours really. The extra WA Quantum chips are coming
for the capacitors in a day or two. I'll put those on and then just let things settle in for a
good week.
Now lets see if I can add some photos?
Cheers
Simon
There should be 4 pictures. (all rough untidy test work)
One showing the pins into PEIe slot (with insulation tape pulled up a bit to show entry)
One showing the back of the PCIe slot (recommended for an easy hard wired solution)
One showing the removed PCIe slot area. (with pin bases still sticking up)
One showing WaveIO installed. I shall probably neaten the wiring etc, and maybe think about
a screening solution at some point in the near future.
@SimonBromleyUK, that is some deep stuff there, what a mess we audiophiles with a soldering iron make. I will follow your advice and just use the pin into the PCIe slot. Question with the Wave I/O mounted on you digital board like this how do you access the usb port of this card from outside the case? It looks like to me the USB port is facing the PSU side of the Gustard. How confident were you drilling holes in the board that no traces were located there? Hats off to you, that looks crazy.
Hey there Quadman.
Part of the reason for doing all this is to brush up on my soldering & electronic skills.
So, I'm probably going further than is really necessary. Also, the X20 has been an interesting
exercise for me, as it was originally purchased for use as a balanced DAC in my video editing
system. I was looking for something decent and functional in this price bracket and the Gustard
seemed to fit the bill.
However, the sound quality (especially now) has really surprised me. I never realised digital
could be this good, this cheap ... I rather lost interest in audiophile stuff around ten years
ago when I got married. Not just because I couldn't justify the expense anymore, but also because
you needed to spend big bucks for even marginal performance increases.
With the X20, I've had major bumps in performance for either free or reasonably low cost.
And what a sound ... Crappy compilation cd's I only ever listened to once as they were so
flat and compressed, suddenly sound almost spacious and natural. And, all this has re-ignited
my audiophile interest.
So, whilst it may seem slightly crazy to be doing some of this stuff. I see it as more of a
learning process. I've already had the X20 for nearly six months, and it's been a joy to own.
However, digging into it like this has shown me, that despite being seriously great value for
money, there's nothing particularly special about the DAC. It just happens to be a very good
blend of fairly standard components.
Therefore, my intention at the moment is to play around and experiment, work out what works
best for me, then retire the X20 in 6/12 months time into it's intended video editing system role.
Leaving me in a better and more informed position to make my next DAC purchase, be that X30 or
whatever is most appropriate at the time. Quite possibly going the full DIY route, as I now
rather like the idea of choosing my own power supplies/digital & clock boards/DAC's & output schemes.
The 9018 chip is great, but getting a bit long in the tooth now and been replaced. The X20's been
around for about 12 months. And, with it's success and what they've learned Gustard will undoubtedly
be bringing along an improved higher end version, because there's more money to be made for a company
like them in higher value items, rather than compete in the intense low cost high turnover market.
Also, the successful LKS DAC, which undoubtedly spawned the X20, is well over 2 years old, and I'm
sure the guys who produced that haven't been sitting around idle for all that time.
What the X20 has done is opened my eyes to how good digital can be made to sound. And, whilst there's
no way I'm going back to spending the kind of money I did many years ago, I would now happily spend
two or three times the cost of an X20 to get the sound I now know digital is capable of.
That, along with the fast improving computer processing and interface arena makes this an exiting
time for digital. I like the fact you can use HQplayer, using a powerful computer as processor, then
send the hires data to a mini LPS powered computer like the cubox range via a network cable, which
can then sit silently and discreetly in the music room.
Anyway, enough about that, who really knows what might be round the corner ...
As for the mounting of the WaveIO, I have put no holes in the main PCB, it just sits on some nylon
risers to space it away from the FPGA chip (I'll probably just put a thin bit of Deflex under each
leg, and a Quantum chip on the Xmos sometime)
As for the USB socket. I'm not using it, the WaveIO has USB header pins (on the right hand side in
the image above). These are hardwired to a, slightly modified, W4S Recovery. The reason for
removing the other inputs being to allow space to mount this with its USB socket usable from the
back panel, and allow easy access for the power leads from the three linear supplies necessary to
power it all.
As for connecting via the HDMI port you WILL need a HDMI to I2S LVDS card like the Audiophonics one
to make it work. The reason LVDS is used is that it creates a differential signal with both + & - sides.
This is better for signal integrity of the delicate I2S signals on cable runs. The Audiophonics card is
basically a transmitter, whilst the chip connected to the HDMI lines in the X20 is the receiver. Converting
the differential balanced signals back into single I2S lines for the DAC to use. Sound quality is good,
but due to the conversion process and extra wires and connectors etc, not quite as good as direct into
the PCIe slot, where the I2S line outs of the DIYinHK card would basically go straight into the Gustards I2S
lines.
Hope that helps a bit.
Also, I've just been trying out this free software. Handy for room correction and works with HQplayer.
I'm actually using it a bit like a basic eq, to enhance the mids (mainly vocals) on the more heavily
compressed tracks I own, that were mixed for commercial radio play rather than a full range system, and
can be a bit bass heavy. So far, quite encouraging results, but yet another learning curve.
http://www.roomeqwizard.com/
Regards
Simon
Part of the reason for doing all this is to brush up on my soldering & electronic skills.
So, I'm probably going further than is really necessary. Also, the X20 has been an interesting
exercise for me, as it was originally purchased for use as a balanced DAC in my video editing
system. I was looking for something decent and functional in this price bracket and the Gustard
seemed to fit the bill.
However, the sound quality (especially now) has really surprised me. I never realised digital
could be this good, this cheap ... I rather lost interest in audiophile stuff around ten years
ago when I got married. Not just because I couldn't justify the expense anymore, but also because
you needed to spend big bucks for even marginal performance increases.
With the X20, I've had major bumps in performance for either free or reasonably low cost.
And what a sound ... Crappy compilation cd's I only ever listened to once as they were so
flat and compressed, suddenly sound almost spacious and natural. And, all this has re-ignited
my audiophile interest.
So, whilst it may seem slightly crazy to be doing some of this stuff. I see it as more of a
learning process. I've already had the X20 for nearly six months, and it's been a joy to own.
However, digging into it like this has shown me, that despite being seriously great value for
money, there's nothing particularly special about the DAC. It just happens to be a very good
blend of fairly standard components.
Therefore, my intention at the moment is to play around and experiment, work out what works
best for me, then retire the X20 in 6/12 months time into it's intended video editing system role.
Leaving me in a better and more informed position to make my next DAC purchase, be that X30 or
whatever is most appropriate at the time. Quite possibly going the full DIY route, as I now
rather like the idea of choosing my own power supplies/digital & clock boards/DAC's & output schemes.
The 9018 chip is great, but getting a bit long in the tooth now and been replaced. The X20's been
around for about 12 months. And, with it's success and what they've learned Gustard will undoubtedly
be bringing along an improved higher end version, because there's more money to be made for a company
like them in higher value items, rather than compete in the intense low cost high turnover market.
Also, the successful LKS DAC, which undoubtedly spawned the X20, is well over 2 years old, and I'm
sure the guys who produced that haven't been sitting around idle for all that time.
What the X20 has done is opened my eyes to how good digital can be made to sound. And, whilst there's
no way I'm going back to spending the kind of money I did many years ago, I would now happily spend
two or three times the cost of an X20 to get the sound I now know digital is capable of.
That, along with the fast improving computer processing and interface arena makes this an exiting
time for digital. I like the fact you can use HQplayer, using a powerful computer as processor, then
send the hires data to a mini LPS powered computer like the cubox range via a network cable, which
can then sit silently and discreetly in the music room.
Anyway, enough about that, who really knows what might be round the corner ...
As for the mounting of the WaveIO, I have put no holes in the main PCB, it just sits on some nylon
risers to space it away from the FPGA chip (I'll probably just put a thin bit of Deflex under each
leg, and a Quantum chip on the Xmos sometime)
As for the USB socket. I'm not using it, the WaveIO has USB header pins (on the right hand side in
the image above). These are hardwired to a, slightly modified, W4S Recovery. The reason for
removing the other inputs being to allow space to mount this with its USB socket usable from the
back panel, and allow easy access for the power leads from the three linear supplies necessary to
power it all.
As for connecting via the HDMI port you WILL need a HDMI to I2S LVDS card like the Audiophonics one
to make it work. The reason LVDS is used is that it creates a differential signal with both + & - sides.
This is better for signal integrity of the delicate I2S signals on cable runs. The Audiophonics card is
basically a transmitter, whilst the chip connected to the HDMI lines in the X20 is the receiver. Converting
the differential balanced signals back into single I2S lines for the DAC to use. Sound quality is good,
but due to the conversion process and extra wires and connectors etc, not quite as good as direct into
the PCIe slot, where the I2S line outs of the DIYinHK card would basically go straight into the Gustards I2S
lines.
Hope that helps a bit.
Also, I've just been trying out this free software. Handy for room correction and works with HQplayer.
I'm actually using it a bit like a basic eq, to enhance the mids (mainly vocals) on the more heavily
compressed tracks I own, that were mixed for commercial radio play rather than a full range system, and
can be a bit bass heavy. So far, quite encouraging results, but yet another learning curve.
http://www.roomeqwizard.com/
Regards
Simon
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