Full range speakers or not and how loud
- Thread starter alfa100
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The ear can stand 110db with no damage as long as it’s not longer than say a minute at a time.even louder is ok in short bursts.
I turn my system up to 120db at times but only for a minute and than reduce it down.get ear tests every year and my hearing is perfectly fine.
No it’s perfectly safe to listen loud but only for a minute or so.I have being doing so all my life.
How db is measured needs to be quantified for this discussion about whats ok and not...
I haven't thought about this for a while but as memory serves:
A popular 'calibration' in the professional mastering world is to setup listening this way: 79 or 80 db spl c-weighted, measured at the listening chair. This is done with pink noise at -20dbfs from the digital ( or 0 db vu from the analog source). Then louder music tracks will need to be 'turned down' and very quiet ones 'turned up'. The idea here is to establish a standard for track loudness that translates easily by listening for a 'norm'.
Why mention all this? Mastering engineers listen all day and a baseline of 80 sb spl c-weighted with ~20db spl peaks is considered 'safe', although each person may vary in this regard.
Generally we are really worried about steady levels more so than peak meter readings - although both are important
I haven't thought about this for a while but as memory serves:
A popular 'calibration' in the professional mastering world is to setup listening this way: 79 or 80 db spl c-weighted, measured at the listening chair. This is done with pink noise at -20dbfs from the digital ( or 0 db vu from the analog source). Then louder music tracks will need to be 'turned down' and very quiet ones 'turned up'. The idea here is to establish a standard for track loudness that translates easily by listening for a 'norm'.
Why mention all this? Mastering engineers listen all day and a baseline of 80 sb spl c-weighted with ~20db spl peaks is considered 'safe', although each person may vary in this regard.
Generally we are really worried about steady levels more so than peak meter readings - although both are important
An extremely dangerous statement if it is not properly understood. You are quoting average values with a statistical meaning, this is not an absolute threshold. Also , as long as we go up in age, we become more sensitive to hearing damage - and I can guess that the WBF age average is not in the thirties or forties ...
The often quoted risk and maximum values are allowed values by law for job noise. Law values are always a compromise between risk and social needs.
As we get older we can expect our hearing to degrade. I know about cases where a single event of very loud noise was enough to trigger permanent hearing problems.
Yes, quoting sound levels figures needs better understanding of them, and particularly of the conditions in which was carried the measurement.
Well, mastering engineers are a common example of people who have premature hearing loss . It is commonly debated in professional audio boards.
Yes its true, and what is a safe level and safe amount of time in exposure is debated. Some prefer to listen at calibration levels around 79 db or 78 db etc., and smart engineers have a schedule of 'silence breaks'.
My goal is to narrow the discussion a bit not to provide a firm number for 'safety'. Previously in this discussion a gargantuan range of 45db spl has been cited as preferred listening level!
I have to say, I want the system to be effortless at those levels all the way through a 50-60db peak (ie still within its Class A range without peak)...but we might actually at that level for 1-2 songs a month (if that). We actually listen at much lower levels than 79db steady. More like 60-70db and sometimes lower...
...the key is the noise floor of the system.
...having owned the Gryphon Mephisto, we could listen at level 1 on the knob of the Robert Koda K15Ex...and everything was there.
...now with the Bel Canto as a loaner amp while we wait for the Robert Koda K160s...not only is the volume at 10...(but given the difference in sensitivity), it IS a good deal louder to feel like you are actually hearing everything in some level of balance.
...for us the better the system has gotten, the SOFTER we play, not the louder.
Calibrating for 80db spl c-weighted with pink noise does not mean that 80db is the average level for all music- this will be track dependant. 60 db peaks are not from 'average to peak' ( which is generally not much more than 20db for most and as bad as 6db for squashed edm ) but rather from 'lower level to peak'
+1
OSHA noise standards are designed to leave you with enough residual hearing to understand speech when you retire. They consider hearing out to 4 kHz plenty good enough. Also susceptibility to hearing loss from noise exposure varies greatly from one individual to another, so don't trust that your ears are as bulletproof as someone else's unless you KNOW it. My father was an ear doctor for many decades and he told me that.
Stand-mount speakers have been mentioned, and imo they can be somewhat handicapped by their small baffle face. Too much of the long-wavelength energy wraps around and we don't get the satisfying sense of upper-bass and lower-mid weight that a physically larger speaker can provide. Most stand-mount speakers use "baffle step compensation" to some extent and this is probably a good compromise. Some stand-mount speakers DO have a wide baffle, like the Grimms, so they do much better in this regard. Even the original Wilson Watt was offered with a stand that had a wide solid "beard" extending to the floor to address this issue, before the Puppy was added.
I realize that stand-mounts dominate the marketplace and I make 'em too, but they would not be my first choice if other options were viable. The subjective benefit of having a large baffle doesn't show up in the published specs but ime it's audible and welcome.
Thanks...yes when I say 60db peaks, I meant 30up and 30 down peak to trough rather than peak to average. I calc based on 70-79db base with a db range of 60 and an extreme 75. And again, its all just for 'feel good on paper'...we dont actually listen at anywhere near those levels...but if the system is designed to handle it, then the view we take is that being well, well, WELL inside that limit probably means 'effortless sound' which IS the goal.
Going from all the feedback here that loud listening is bad for the ear i think I better back it of abit and stay safe.
I checked my normal listening level and it ran 65-75db. I checked to see what 85-90 db was and for me is was painful and no longer relaxing.
That said there is no doubt at the right moment I had possibly gone to the 85-90 bd for a very short period.
I am unable to attend many of the local club members meetings as the music is just to loud to enjoy.
That said there is no doubt at the right moment I had possibly gone to the 85-90 bd for a very short period.
I am unable to attend many of the local club members meetings as the music is just to loud to enjoy.
To help others relate to your findings (technically...of course we don't share ears) how did you measure this?
At seat or at 1m, a weighted or c weighted etc....?
At seat or at 1m, a weighted or c weighted etc....?
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