Fuse and Cable Directionality

[Geoffkait]

So I will ask again:

Just think a minute all the leaded parts could have "reversed" leads They are precut to length and binned prior to wiring/manufacturing.

Then you have inductors that can be wound reversed, Then when you install there is no polarity so "right" can be reversed at install.

Let's do a coin toss say 50% are right.

Then you reverse one cord, wire or fuse leaving everything else as is and poof it's fixed!

If your theory is correct how can just changing one while leaving the others alone work?

Makes no sense at all

Rob

Some folks have more than one fuse. So in that case in order to get all the fuses in the correct orientation they should reverse each fuse one at a time and listen to the difference, as you intimated arbitrary fuse orientations will have a 50% chance of being in the correct orientation. Audition fuse no. 1 for both directions, then repeat for the remaining fuses, one at a time. Since the first time through, the difference in sound might not be discernible, or barely discernible, pick one direction for now,then move to next fuse. As one proceeds the difference in sound will/should become more obvious. After all fuses have been auditioned once, repeat for all fuses to confirm your choices the first go around. Make sense, now?

This approach works for all (rpt all) fuses, including Bussman and Littelfuse fuses, which sound more open, more airy, more dynamic and “authentic” when they’re in the correct orientation.

 

[Geoffkait]

It's not envy. It's well placed skepticism. I am no more envious of people buying and using expensive fuses that make no difference in the audio signal than I am envious of people spending the same amount of money on psychic readings. If they enjoy it good for them. I get nothing from either.

I don't have a limitless budget. As such I focus on things that do make a real difference. That's me. Everyone else is free to make their own choices.

But I do advocate *informed* choices. Objective facts on the effects or lack of effects of fuses or fuse direction is *information.* If those facts offend some folks such is life. Spreading factual information for those interested in it is worth the price of a few bruised egos.

I’m pretty sure that’s the very definition of Uber Skeptic or as you say, “well placed Skepticism.” Obviously all skeptics believe their skepticism is well placed.

“Informed choices” presumes all audiophiles are privy to the same information and that they would all act the same if they were privy to all the information.

“I focus on things that do make a real difference.” A transparent attempt to garner support for your claims. You might as well say, “I’ve been in this hobby for 40 years so you can believe me when I say directionality isn’t real.”

 

[Robh3606]

Some folks have more than one fuse. So in that case in order to get all the fuses in the correct orientation they should reverse each fuse one at a time and listen to the difference, as you intimated arbitrary fuse orientations will have a 50% chance of being in the correct orientation. Audion fuse no. 1 for both directions, then repeat for remainingbfuses one at a time. Since the first time through, the difference in sound might not be discernible, but as you proceed the difference in sound will become clearer. After all fuses have been auditioned, repeat fir all fuses to confirm your choice in direction for the first go around. Make sense, now?

This approach works for all (rpt all) fuses, including Bussman and Littelfuse fuses, which sound more open, more airy, more dynamic and “authentic” when they’re in the correct orientation.

Your missing the elephant in the room. It's not just the fuses but the parts and wiring as well. If a backwards fuse is audible using your logic so would an inductor or section of wire.

It's going to be approximately a 50/50 mix of all conductors in the build. So if you have 50 components, other than just fuses, odds are 25 will be reversed.

With 25 reversed parts how can a simple change in fuse direction "fix" the issue?

You still have the balance of reversed parts.

Why can you only hear a fuse change and not hear the rest of the parts?

The reversed parts clearly exceeding the number of fuses?

Rob

 

[Analog Scott]

I’m pretty sure that’s the very definition of Uber or as you say, “well placed Skepticism.”

“Informed choices” presumes all audiophiles are privy to the same information and that they would all act the same if they were privy to all the information.

“I focus on things that do make a real difference.” A transparent attempt to garner support for your claims. You might as well say, “I’ve been in this hobby for 40 years so whatever I claim must be true. You know, logical fallacy.

Informed choices is a logical fallacy? OK...............

 

[Geoffkait]

Your missing the elephant in the room. It's not just the fuses but the parts and wiring as well. If a backwards fuse is audible using your logic so would an inductor or section of wire.

It's going to be approximately a 50/50 mix of all conductors in the build. So if you have 50 components, other than just fuses, odds are 25 will be reversed.

With 25 reversed parts how can a simple change in fuse direction "fix" the issue?

You still have the balance of reversed parts.

Why can you only hear a fuse change and not hear the rest of the parts?

The reversed parts clearly exceeding the number of fuses?

Rob

Your Prover is working very hard but your Thinker needs some more time to reassess the issue. This is starting to look a little bit=like 12 Angry Men, or 12 Angry Super Skeptics. “You can’t prove it!”

I answered your first question already. Hel-loo!

 

[Geoffkait]

Informed choices is a logical fallacy? OK...............

Your Prover is getting tired, maybe time to switch your Thinker to Rethinker mode.

 

[Geoffkait]

Analog Scott wrote,

“What I have done is called out his misrepresentation of the scientific evidence that relates to the subject of audibility of fuses and fuse direction and his misrepresentation of how science actually addresses claims of audibility. I have presented an accurate account of how science actually does deal with these things.”

I hate to judge too harshly but I’m pretty sure the entire scientific community is not behind you 100%, no matter how many times you try to assure us. I’ve counted the number of times you have used the words science, scientific, evidence and physics in the past two days. It’s almost 100 times. What’s up with that?

“Never get behind anyone 100%.” - Bob Beatty, my boss at NASA.

 

[Analog Scott]

Analog Scott wrote,

“What I have done is called out his misrepresentation of the scientific evidence that relates to the subject of audibility of fuses and fuse direction and his misrepresentation of how science actually addresses claims of audibility. I have presented an accurate account of how science actually does deal with these things.”

I hate to just too harshly but I’m pretty sure the entire scientific community is not behind you 100% not matter how many times you try to assure us. I’ve counted the number of times you have used the words science, scientific, evidence and physics in the past two days. It’s almost 100 times. What’s up with that?

“Never get behind anyone 100%.” - Bob Beatty, my boss at NASA.

Why are you doing word counts? What’s up with that? Talk about logical fallacies ️️️

 

[Geoffkait]

Why are you doing word counts? What’s up with that? Talk about logical fallacies ️️️

It’s because I enjoy pointing out when non scientists try to wrap themselves in scientists robe to convey the impression their ideas have the full force of science community, physics and the truth. It’s a form of appeal to authority, it’s just not your authority.

 

[Analog Scott]

It’s because I enjoy pointing out when non scientists try to align themselves with science, physics and the truth.

Paying attention to science and deferring to scientists and scientific research triggers you to do word counts? OK....keep counting words if it makes you happy.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Paying attention to science and deferring to scientists and scientific research triggers you to do word counts? OK....keep counting words if it makes you happy.

Children please. Time to move on and stay on subject, word counts and who has a stronger stream of pee are not the subject. Time to ignore you both….again!

 

[Analog Scott]

Children please. Time to move on and stay on subject, word counts and who has a stronger stream of pee are not the subject. Time to ignore you both….again!

So "grown up" of you to announce it.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

So "grown up" of you to announce it.

Yep like I said child. Ignored.

 

[SeagoatLeo]

I have not disassembled this fuse maybe a material mix, I like the sound totally homogeneous with a great bass range. I have the Purple in my tubedac, tubepreamp and tube poweramps.

That may be fine and work great in your audio system. Unless it is a combo integrated amp, source and speaker all in one, assembling an audio system is not generally easy. Building one's own using electrical and acoustical sound knowledge is challenging to most of us (like me). Assembling a high end system (WBF name) has not been easy for me (or my friends).

 

[SeagoatLeo]

From SR website,

“How fuses alter the sound of your system. For over one hundred years people believed electrons flowed like water through a pipe and that once ‘contaminated’ by miles of wire, there was little or nothing that could be done to ‘clean’ the electricity feeding your components. Consider this: the electricity feeding your system’s components first propagates through a single fuse. This is why significant gains in sound quality are possible when you insert an SR Black or Blue Fuses into each of your components.

Today physicists understand electrons don’t flow at all but rather propagate in a wave of energy that moves along a conductor with a multitude of factors that alters this wave at the quantum level. To understand how electricity travels without electrons ever leaving their respective atoms it is helpful to consider the spectator ‘wave’ at a football match. Even though you can clearly see a wave pattern moving from spectator to spectator as fans raise and then lower their hands (without hands jumping from one person to the next), so too does electricity ‘move’ without electrons ever leaving their atoms. At Synergistic Research we’ve isolated key factors that affect how electricity propagates by changing the behavior of electrons through Inductive Quantum Coupling methods we collectively call UEF Tech. In fact, UEF Tech is so powerful even an electrical chain several miles long is fundimentally improved with nothing more than a single fuse engineered with our patented UEF Technology.”

Note to self: Sometimes it’s better not to try to explain things.

Despite SR's explanation, sonically, all my friends and I have switched to Acme treated fuses. SR explanation could be correct though but their fuses just don't measure up in our systems. The SR blue fuse certainly improved our earlier sound over a cheap stock glass or ceramic fuse (can be purchased locally by the 1000/bulk for a 10 to 50 cents each).

 

[SeagoatLeo]

… to which 99% of audiofiles will say “bollocks” and the other 1% will say “my life will not be complete without a handful of those”, place an order and Mr SR can put down the deposit on his next Ferrari.

That’s one of the things I like about this hobby, people write this stuff and I get a laugh out of it. Or I could just turn on the TV and watch Larry David. I imagine myself as a microbe that can penetrate into some of these wordsmiths’ brains and see the cogs ticking over as they generate this meaningless clap trap as a means of extracting money from the naive and endlessly hopeful. You see it here, someone buys a cable or something and an interested party follows up with an avalanche of adjectives.

A lot of this wordsmithery originates from the need to sell online, either because that’s the way the world works now, or because their product is unattractive to retail distributors and dealers. As someone who buys from dealers, I don’t have to put up with this literary vomit, because in my experience dealers don’t indulge in it. They just arrange for customers to listen to equipment and make up their own minds.

That's Grover Huffman, my friend who builds his own equipment and sells cables (he wrote his own patent-not college educated). He also decries tweaks, but he changed his amps from fused to circuit breakers after he heard the difference a fuse makes in the same amps at my home. Yes, everything I may state is anecdotal, but some people's knowledge and experience is greater than most of us laymen. Grover Huffman is a highly knowledgeable audio craftsman which took his entire life of experimenting. This is like many high end manufacturers who test different components in their design until they achieve what they perceive to be best-again, their perception, not just a scientific measurement. Other manufacturers just throw in components to meet a set price. Fuses are cost effective components. They work. Even high end manufacturers achieve great success with ordinary and cheap fuses. I certainly don't dispute that. I'm not touching my Von Schweikert Foundation sub amps in my speakers for various reasons. They are SOTA speakers for me.

 

[SeagoatLeo]

So I will ask again:

Just think a minute all the leaded parts could have "reversed" leads They are precut to length and binned prior to wiring/manufacturing.

Then you have inductors that can be wound reversed, Then when you install there is no polarity so "right" can be reversed at install.

Let's do a coin toss say 50% are right.

Then you reverse one cord, wire or fuse leaving everything else as is and poof it's fixed!

If your theory is correct how can just changing one while leaving the others alone work?

Makes no sense at all

Rob

Okay, let's say you are correct. Maybe the fuse is not directional. However, by flipping the fuse in a component if it elicits a better or worse sound (not scientifically tested, 100% perception). That's sufficient reason to flip the fuse to the preferred sound, whatever the miswiring or directionality of all the other components are in the equipment. I don't know why, I only know what I hear.

 

[SeagoatLeo]

Why would I send you my fuses when my system has no fuses in it. bit slow on the uptake eh. Would not pay you a dime, a quid or a squid.

I think he was making a joke, sarcastic. He did not anticipate anyone doing that (I certainly hope not). My Grover Huffman pre-amp and phono pre-amp are unfused. My Grover Huffman monoblock amps could be unfused with a circuit breaker replacement. It's all about the design and protection level required.

 

[SeagoatLeo]

A combination of DBT and ABX testing. This was some 40 years ago but was one of the defining moments for me in audio, when I realized how much perception and things like mood when listening and such affected the results. I went from hearing every atom in the cables to what I feel is a more balanced approach to audio, and became much less trusting of my ears without multiple trials and at least some controlled listening. Too often I heard something that I thought I'd never heard before, only to go back to the old (whatever) and find it was there all along, I was just not hearing it. Testing served to focus my attention and verify the comparisons I thought I heard. Sometimes they remained, sometimes not, and I was much more confident in my ability to her differences after a few years of such trials.

Thank you. I am more interested in listening to music than testing for reproduction errors. I spent good time finding what I like though without your extensive testing. I've spent more time on this forum than any in the past year, maybe 3 years (my 2 ASR audiogon forums).

 

[SeagoatLeo]

Some folks have more than one fuse. So in that case in order to get all the fuses in the correct orientation they should reverse each fuse one at a time and listen to the difference, as you intimated arbitrary fuse orientations will have a 50% chance of being in the correct orientation. Audion fuse no. 1 for both directions, then repeat for the remaining fuses, one at a time. Since the first time through, the difference in sound might not be discernible, or barely discernible, pick one direction for now,then move to next fuse. As one proceeds the difference in sound will/should become more obvious. After all fuses have been auditioned once, repeat for all fuses to confirm your choices the first go around. Make sense, now?

This approach works for all (rpt all) fuses, including Bussman and Littelfuse fuses, which sound more open, more airy, more dynamic and “authentic” when they’re in the correct orientation.

Correct or incorrect, I start with the amps and work toward the source. Maybe that's incorrect but I find that starting with the universal (amps) to the specific and multiple (sources) is more logical than the reverse. I want all sources to sound their best in one amp position. Too many variables otherwise.