Great article on "Analogue Warmth"

[nc42acc]

"The LP (long play), or 33 1?3 rpm microgroove vinyl record, is a format for phonograph (gramophone) records, an analog sound storage medium. Introduced by Columbia Records in 1948, it was soon adopted as a new standard by the entire record industry. Apart from relatively minor refinements and the important later addition of stereophonic sound capability, it has remained the standard format for vinyl albums."

A long running fad I would say.........

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Anyways I wouldn't expect a guy who's been making tube amps since 1976 to come on here and say class D combined with DSP is superior. So no point of discussing this further. People are going to continue to buy tube amps no matter what technology comes out.

As for LP on the rise, it's just a fad. I don't expect it lasting much longer than 5 years.

Serious question, Blizz. Do you honestly think that dsd is not a fad just the same? I get recording in it etc but actual digital files sold to the world or streamed? You believe that Spotify and Tidal and whoever else will move to streaming dsd for the mainstream?

 

[Purite Audio]

Keith - on a separate note, do you think that Illusonic, Trinnov etc will move towards doing their processing in dsd?

Bill honestly the designers I know , do not really rate DSD, have you read Daniels paper on DSD. Marketing pressure forces them to include the capability within their designs.
Did you compare the Devialet to your Krells? What did you think?
Keith.

 

[Blizzard]

Serious question, Blizz. Do you honestly think that dsd is not a fad just the same? I get recording in it etc but actual digital files sold to the world or streamed? You believe that Spotify and Tidal and whoever else will move to streaming dsd for the mainstream?

DSD allows for better sound. It's not a fad. The only reason it's not the industry standard is due to reasons that will soon be non existent. I already pointed them out earlier in the thread.

 

[Blizzard]

"The LP (long play), or 33 1?3 rpm microgroove vinyl record, is a format for phonograph (gramophone) records, an analog sound storage medium. Introduced by Columbia Records in 1948, it was soon adopted as a new standard by the entire record industry. Apart from relatively minor refinements and the important later addition of stereophonic sound capability, it has remained the standard format for vinyl albums."

A long running fad I would say.........

I'm talking about the latest resurgence of popularity over the last couple of years. Not for hardcore audiophiles who have been listening to vinyl for years.

 

[Purite Audio]

DSD allows for better sound. It's not a fad. The only reason it's not the industry standard is due to reasons that will soon be non existent. I already pointed them out earlier in the thread.

Why is DSD 'better' than PCM?
Keith.

 

[Blizzard]

Bill honestly the designers I know , do not really rate DSD, have you read Daniels paper on DSD. Marketing pressure forces them to include the capability within their designs.
Did you compare the Devialet to your Krells? What did you think?
Keith.

They don't like it because of the difficulty to apply DSP. Not because it isn't better. It requires extremely powerful processing.

 

[Blizzard]

Why is DSD 'better' than PCM?
Keith.

I think there's enough info out there on it. But from my personal experience, you can make a much simpler and better sounding DAC by making it DSD only. PCM resampled to DSD with a super quality DSD DAC is unreal.

We don't have any pure DSD DAC's on the commercial market yet that are designed to be devoid of coloration. But I have one at my place, and it's stunning.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Bill honestly the designers I know , do not really rate DSD, have you read Daniels paper on DSD. Marketing pressure forces them to include the capability within their designs.
Did you compare the Devialet to your Krells? What did you think?
Keith.

Hi Keith,

I haven't read that paper but I definitely will. I am more or less certain that we won't be streaming dsd instead of PCM as a mainstream solution for our music.

The Krells absolutely killed the Devialet although it is so hard to compare because as you rightly say, the Devialet is an all in one. The Devialet was super clean sound but very flat in my room and dry. The Krells opened up my soundstage and provided bass I never heard before - they also sounded darker although that might be for other reasons. The Focals are a horrible load so I am guessing that the Devialet d prem could not handle the low impedance in the upper bass (1.7ohms).

 

[Al M.]

The one good thing blizzard has given us is entertainment ... kudos for that.

Indeed!

As for answering his posts, I don't bother anymore, I have taken on the role of amused bystander and let others do the work -- until I feel compelled to chime in the discussion again, LOL…

 

[Purite Audio]

They don't like it because of the difficulty to apply DSP. Not because it isn't better. It requires extremely powerful processing.

What has DSP to do with it, they don't like it because it is seriously flawed, perhaps acceptable thirty years ago to digitise analogue tape.
http://www.weiss.ch/assets/content/41/white-paper-on-DSD.pdf

Keith.

 

[Purite Audio]

Hi Keith,

I haven't read that paper but I definitely will. I am more or less certain that we won't be streaming dsd instead of PCM as a mainstream solution for our music.

The Krells absolutely killed the Devialet although it is so hard to compare because as you rightly say, the Devialet is an all in one. The Devialet was super clean sound but very flat in my room and dry. The Krells opened up my soundstage and provided bass I never heard before - they also sounded darker although that might be for other reasons. The Focals are a horrible load so I am guessing that the Devialet d prem could not handle the low impedance in the upper bass (1.7ohms).

Bill Hi, that's interesting, we had one here for a month, it was good ,no problems with low impedance here, it sounded like a decent SS amp, I must admit I didn't feel compelled to beg Ricardo to let me sell them though.
The Molas ( Hypex ) are really good , not all Class d designs are the same !
KR Keith.

 

[Blizzard]

What has DSP to do with it, they don't like it because it is seriously flawed, perhaps acceptable thirty years ago to digitise analogue tape.
http://www.weiss.ch/assets/content/41/white-paper-on-DSD.pdf

Keith.

You are talking about companies who make DSP products. PCM is a must in order to apply the DSP in their units. No matter what the whitepaper from Weiss says. Besides Weiss is talking more about single rate DSD like on SACD. And I agree. Quad DSD eliminates these shortcomings. I can hear the noise with my own DAC with single rate DSD. Double is a lot better, and quad is stunning.

 

[Al M.]

What has DSP to do with it, they don't like it because it is seriously flawed, perhaps acceptable thirty years ago to digitise analogue tape.
http://www.weiss.ch/assets/content/41/white-paper-on-DSD.pdf

Keith.

Thanks for that link, very interesting. dCS and Berkeley don't bother with DSD either, also for technical reasons apparently.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Bill Hi, that's interesting, we had one here for a month, it was good ,no problems with low impedance here, it sounded like a decent SS amp, I must admit I didn't feel compelled to beg Ricardo to let me sell them though.
The Molas ( Hypex ) are really good , not all Class d designs are the same !
KR Keith.

Fair enough, Keith. You are not the first to tell me that there are some good sounding class D amps out there as well. The other class d amp that kind of put me off the breed was the anthem m1 - that was one hideous sounding piece of gear.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Bill Hi, that's interesting, we had one here for a month, it was good ,no problems with low impedance here, it sounded like a decent SS amp, I must admit I didn't feel compelled to beg Ricardo to let me sell them though.
The Molas ( Hypex ) are really good , not all Class d designs are the same !
KR Keith.

Fair enough, Keith. You are not the first to tell me that there are some good sounding class D amps out there as well. The other class d amp that kind of put me off the breed was the anthem m1 - that was one hideous sounding piece of gear.

 

[Blizzard]

Fair enough, Keith. You are not the first to tell me that there are some good sounding class D amps out there as well. The other class d amp that kind of put me off the breed was the anthem m1 - that was one hideous sounding piece of gear.

Your basing your class D experience on that? Not sure why your even participating in the conversation then.

 

[Blizzard]

Thanks for that link, very interesting. dCS and Berkeley don't bother with DSD either, also for technical reasons apparently.

Next time you go visit Madfloyd, your opinion of DSD may change. And his DAC is only double DSD compatible!

 

[DaveC]

DSD, from what I've heard, is a step closer to analog... it's more relaxed and easier to listen to. This is the big plus with vinyl for me, despite it's problems it's less irritating to the nervous system vs digital.

Can we quit the back and forth on the emulation idea? Maybe it'll work, time will tell. The arguments are beating a dead horse at this point. The phenomenon of "analog warmth" and how it's expressed is the topic of the thread and is more interesting imo...

 

[amirm]

What has DSP to do with it, they don't like it because it is seriously flawed, perhaps acceptable thirty years ago to digitise analogue tape.
http://www.weiss.ch/assets/content/41/white-paper-on-DSD.pdf

Keith.

Best and easiest to read paper I have seen on the topic.