Great article on "Analogue Warmth"
- Thread starter Blizzard
- Start date
- Status
Yeah but it actually has to actually live up to the claim. You guys aren't realizing this is just an optional feature, not something that defines the product. If the emulation profiles sound bad to your ears, simply don't use them.
If only they had a free choice. If Brtney Spears is recorded only in digital. How do they get free choice?.
Hi Bill,
Though I know you asked Tim, I hope it's okay to put my two cents in here.
To your first question: Most of my experience is with the Kemper, so take that for whatever it's worth. I think clean sounds in particular can be really impressive - like "whoa, I can't believe that's not my amp" impressive. Heavily modulated/distorted sounds sometimes fare less well, depending on the complexity of the sound.
To your second question: An important distinction may be that with a profiling amp (again, I’m thinking the Kemper, which in my experience is by far the most proficient at "profiling" an existing setup - rather than "modelling" or mimicking pre-existing setups) is doing two things:
1. Capturing the amp/cab (and effects) at one specific setting (which does allow for compensation of pick attack and sag), but only that specific setting (however the amp's gain, EQ, master volume, etc is set at that particular time), and not the entire behaviour of that amp over a range of settings. If say, one takes a Matchless DC30 and profiles it with the Volume at 9-o’clock, one can’t then just crank the volume to 1-o’clock on the Kemper and have it sound the same as it would had the volume been cranked on the DC30. To get that sound one would need to crank the volume on the amp and then profile that specific sound.
2. Capturing one's choice of microphone. The Kemper is not profiling the amp/cab. It’s profiling the amp/cab as captured by whatever microphone is chosen and where it was placed it on the cab.
That is: the Kemper is not capturing the amp at all settings, in the room, as perceived by the player's ears - it's capturing the amp at one very specific setting, in the room, as captured by the choice of microphone and its placement relative to the cab.
As many have already alluded to, a valve amp used for hi-fi playback is going to respond very differently depending on the load it’s being asked to drive, the volume its asked to play at, and the musical signal it’s sent. Not only that, we don’t, of course, use an intermediary mechanism in between the load the amp is asked to drive and our ears - we perceive the sound directly from whatever load is connected to the amp. That is: there’s no mic involved.
The reason I think the Kemper has been so successful is because it’s not trying to emulate the entire behaviour of the amp/cab in question across all possible settings - just one. What’s more, it’s implicitly acknowledging it’s capturing not only the amp and cab, but the choice of mic and how it's miked it as part of the sound. Those two things alone will alter the results massively, and cannot be ignored as to their significance.
I guess we just have to cross our fingers and hope that some wonder drug comes out to allow the vinyl generation to live forever. Because mobile app GUI's are awful handy.
The BEST thing Blizz ever did on this thread was involve Ralph. And then when he didn't get the response he was expecting (chutzpah off the scale!), basically ignore you. If he thought you were going to not contribute further, he obviously misled himself.
Now if he really believes what he says, why ask Ralph in the first place?
You must be forgetting that all of our exchanges are still on record. So obviously this must be an attempt at hoping new thread followers miss that part.
But in your case, I think Paul Simon said it best:
"a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"
Blizz, I just caught up w/my favourite "how far can you get OT" topic EVER. Just wanted to highlight possibly the most relevant post.
So, thanx again for getting Ralph involved.
He's showing more intelligence than the rest of us in bailing out when he did.
Just what did you think people were going to do, roll over and accept your premise? You need a little more than promise allied to outright assertions to win over people.
I've heard Class D Mola Mola 300W. Class AB Bakoon at 12W dumps all over it, excuse my French. So, yr platform ain't gonna work for me.
One of the most straight wire amps ever is the Townshend Allegri passive autoformer pre w/cryogenically treated internal wiring. About as minimal as you can get. And one of the most disappointing hifi experiences ever. Despite Max telling me it's the most truthful, straight wire, uncoloured conduits ever. Uncoloured, yes. No colour, yes.
If i'm just going to be hit over the head all the time w/the usual messages that old is outdated and new is de facto superior, just wake me up in the morning so I can go to work.
And to then be told that any amp signature/any tube signature can be sampled, and selected app-like, for the perfect impersonation before you've even achieved a working prototype, borders on arrogance for the sake of it. And to personally drag a truly gifted and esteemed tube amp designer in, and when you get a considered and non hysterical lukewarm response, pretty much not address it, to later say it's what you'd expect him to say, I think any supporters you might have (ironically me in the beginning) are looking to bail themselves.
So, thanx again for getting Ralph involved.
He's showing more intelligence than the rest of us in bailing out when he did.
Just what did you think people were going to do, roll over and accept your premise? You need a little more than promise allied to outright assertions to win over people.
I've heard Class D Mola Mola 300W. Class AB Bakoon at 12W dumps all over it, excuse my French. So, yr platform ain't gonna work for me.
One of the most straight wire amps ever is the Townshend Allegri passive autoformer pre w/cryogenically treated internal wiring. About as minimal as you can get. And one of the most disappointing hifi experiences ever. Despite Max telling me it's the most truthful, straight wire, uncoloured conduits ever. Uncoloured, yes. No colour, yes.
If i'm just going to be hit over the head all the time w/the usual messages that old is outdated and new is de facto superior, just wake me up in the morning so I can go to work.
And to then be told that any amp signature/any tube signature can be sampled, and selected app-like, for the perfect impersonation before you've even achieved a working prototype, borders on arrogance for the sake of it. And to personally drag a truly gifted and esteemed tube amp designer in, and when you get a considered and non hysterical lukewarm response, pretty much not address it, to later say it's what you'd expect him to say, I think any supporters you might have (ironically me in the beginning) are looking to bail themselves.
Last edited:
There's no hope for someone who thinks 90's video technology is better than today. At least with video, it's much easier to tell the better technology. Anyone with a good set of eyes can tell right away.
Hello WBF members and good afternoon to you. Please allow me to remind you that personal comments are against the TOS of this forum. If you choose to state something directed at a person, think twice before posting as you may not like the end result of what happens to your post(s) or your membership status.
Keep all posts on topic and discuss the technical merit of the subject.
Now that this has been addressed, please be advised that any further personal commentary or off topic posts will be deleted and administrative action will be taken if warranted by the management team. Thank you.
Tom
Keep all posts on topic and discuss the technical merit of the subject.
Now that this has been addressed, please be advised that any further personal commentary or off topic posts will be deleted and administrative action will be taken if warranted by the management team. Thank you.
Tom
Hi, I'm back. I use Fender Mustangs, and the Fender models are very good. The Deluxe Reverb is particularly good, probably because Fender knows it well, and my particular amp, a Mustang III, has a single 12" speaker in an open back cabinet, just like a Deluxe. IMO, as you change settings on the amp, it reacts like a Deluxe. Now, which Deluxe might be a good question. Change the bias, sag, speaker in a tube Deluxe and it'll change dramatically. If you want to emulate a particular amp, you'll have some tweaking to do, but I don't really hear a problem with losing the character of the amp being modeled when you change tone and volume controls.
I do agree that clean and low-gain distortion (crunch) tones are better than high gain, but I'm not a fan of high gain overdrive, especially when coming from a multi-channel cascading amp, so I wouldn't like it anyway. I'm probably a poor judge. On the other hand, I just picked up the new version of the Mustang III. One of the new effects models is "green box," their euphemism for an Ibanez Tube Screamer. I played nothing but vintage Deluxes for a couple of decades and I can't believe how much it responds and sounds like a Tube Screamer slamming the front end of a Deluxe.
I think most of these amps, while they are almost infinitely versatile, get used in very limited ways. I gig with 3 pre-sets -- a Deluxe, a Twin and an AC30, each with a handful of effects. It's all I need and it was a third of the cost of a Deluxe reissue.
Tim
Blizz, you know when a good set of eyes are needed?
20-20 hindsight.
If only I'd had it when the first post on tube emulation came along I could get the last few days of my life back.
Good luck on yr venture, I truly mean it. I'll never be finished upgrading, and would like to be able to consider inefficient spkrs to wk w/my beloved SETs at some point.
When yr product comes to market, I'll be one of the first to demo it.
But I'm afraid the experience w/this thread means that I'll have to pass on further online chat w/you.
I'd rather stay the right side of forum rules, than roll around in the playground w/you.
Let me agree with what Tom said and add that we like to enjoy and have great time this time of year. Please don't make work for us. Just discuss the topics, whatever they might be, rather than each other. You all bring value to the forum with respect to the topics, please stay with that. We are just getting too many complaints for a thread that should be interesting topic to discuss.
I agree. I think this topic's been exhausted anyways. High end audio today is more about beliefs than the music and sound anyways.
My hope for the next generation of high end audio, is that we pay more attention to the music and the sound, than the form factor. I believe the only way high end audio has a hope in surviving the next generation, is by making the process of experiencing cutting edge sound as painless as possible. This includes mobile app GUI's and compact, highly reliable form factor hardware.
This will allow us to truly focus on the music, rather than the cumbersome process. But again, this is my belief, nobody must agree.
I agree with you on this.
I think your hoped for experience will not come to pass. High end divorced itself from high fidelity long ago. I think it will remain as a niche market of odd ideas, marketing of a difference (mostly when that difference departs from fidelity and reality), and expensive status driven products marketed to the magic, and mystery of imagining what is possible.
Blizz, what are the likely names and genres of gear to look for when they appear?
Simply "amp", but w/series of customisable options?
Or are we looking at a "new" device, w/a wholly original name?
A current example would be "streamer" or "dsp/drc processor", the likes of which didn't exist before their introduction in the marketplace.
I wouldn't want this all to pass me by.
Simply "amp", but w/series of customisable options?
Or are we looking at a "new" device, w/a wholly original name?
A current example would be "streamer" or "dsp/drc processor", the likes of which didn't exist before their introduction in the marketplace.
I wouldn't want this all to pass me by.
- Status
Similar threads
