Great article on "Analogue Warmth"

[Gregadd]

No Frantz i have not. I said if it sounds as he describes. Would you be interested in amp that sounds "unvarnished and deadpan?" I have however heard that argument many times and always find it ridiculous

 

[Blizzard]

That is the beauty of explaining clearly.The fault is obvious.Let me explain clearly. If everything sounds good,it's a filter. Iif everything sounds bad, it's a filter. It pains me greatly that somene owns an amp that sounds as he describes under the guise of "fidelity tothre dource." If you have to listen to that throw it in the trash and go to a concert.

Seriously.

Some design with the conscious intention to add coloration. The coloration is by design, no mistake. Bruno designed his amps to be devoid of coloration. And he can back up the results with the stellar measurement data.

However manufacturers of tube amp or SS amps designed to color, can also backup their results with measurement data as well. Although they usually don't, because it doesn't look pretty.

 

[Gregadd]

I thought about whether I would regret dipping my toe back into this quagmire.....we will see. I just could not resist Tim's tease.

You will.

 

[Al M.]

which 'many people' might that be?

I've not yet met anyone who 'like's the sound of digital better than analog (vinyl or tape)' who has heard SOTA of both. which proves nothing.

I tend to agree with you on the SOTA comparison, see my previous post.

one would need to be interested enough in ultimate music reproduction performance to actually make the effort to hear SOTA of both in a place where both exist. and how many of the 'many people' have done that?

Not many, but that is irrelevant. For 'many people' digital indeed sounds better, for reasons that I have outlined in my previous post.

 

[Blizzard]

No Frantz i have not. I said if it sounds as he describes. Would you be interested in amp that sounds "unvarnished and deadpan?" I have however heard that argument many times and always find it ridiculous

See the problem with your view here is he can backup his claim with real data, when yours is solely based on personal emotion.


It's all right here:

http://www.hypex.nl/docs/NC1200_datasheet.pdf

 

[microstrip]

I have written about this many times and as you, consider it *the* most effective way to test amplifiers for transparency. They have tested countless amplifiers this way. Very few have achieved transparency. One was the Bryston that you mention and the audio was Audio Research from my post back in 2011:

Was it a tubed amplifier with an output transformer? Such ARC amplifiers had typically 1 ohm output impedance. Any real load would create significant FR deviations.

 

[Gregadd]

Some design with the conscious intention to add coloration. The coloration is by design, no mistake. Bruno designed his amps to be devoid of coloration. And he can back up the results with the stellar measurement data.

However manufacturers of tube amp or SS amps designed to color, can also backup their results with measurement data as well. Although they usually don't, because it doesn't look pretty.

Real music is colrful. If your device is not colorful, it distorts. Yes I can tell from measurements when an amp will sound the way he describes.

 

[Al M.]

See the problem with your view here is he can backup his claim with real data, when yours is solely based on personal emotion.

Like your assessment that DSD is better than PCM.

 

[microstrip]

You will.

Yes, he will!

 

[esldude]

I have written about this many times and as you, consider it *the* most effective way to test amplifiers for transparency. They have tested countless amplifiers this way. Very few have achieved transparency. One was the Bryston that you mention and the audio was Audio Research from my post back in 2011:

Well I wasn't reading here in 2011, but will look up what has been posted about it. If I understood the Bryston review, they found the Audio Research (thanks for the identity of this) undetectable sighted, but it was detectable blind. Which is interesting to those who don't believe such things.

This is a very good way to look at an amps abilities. The coloration of some amps when heard in direct comparison with straight through are very interesting. I found MOSFET mist a real thing for some designs, and the old Electron Kinetics Eagle really has the prototypical awful edgy quality of bipolar SS.

 

[Blizzard]

Like your assessment that DSD is better than PCM.

That can be backed up too. Have you ever heard DSD before?

 

[Blizzard]

Real music is colrful. If your device is not colorful, it distorts. Yes I can tell from measurements when an amp will sound the way he describes.

It's also colorful when you close your eyes and push on them real hard. LSD is another way to see colors.

 

[esldude]

Real music is colrful. If your device is not colorful, it distorts. Yes I can tell from measurements when an amp will sound the way he describes.

Real music might be colorful in a way the recording isn't. Adding that color is a color, but it will be a persistent color as you have already referenced which isn't real. So in that circumstance a device without color might still be a wonderfully accurate device which you would remove.

 

[Al M.]

That can be backed up too. Have you ever heard DSD before?

It may sound better to you, but on the technical level PCM is superior, at least as several technically inclined people here have argued. So yes, your assessment appears to be based on personal emotion, while you claim to be such a technical person who doesn't want 'colorations'.

 

[esldude]

which 'many people' might that be?

I've not yet met anyone who 'like's the sound of digital better than analog (vinyl or tape)' who has heard SOTA of both. which proves nothing.

one would need to be interested enough in ultimate music reproduction performance to actually make the effort to hear SOTA of both in a place where both exist. and how many of the 'many people' have done that?

I thought about whether I would regret dipping my toe back into this quagmire.....we will see. I just could not resist Tim's tease.

You aren't going to get to compare digital with phono and have the same master. That invalidates your judgment right there. No more need be said. Rarely indeed could you have the same master with tape though it is possible.

Now even were I to grant you your supposition, so a SOTA digital rig isn't as nice when people get to hear at SOTA analog rig (we talking $25k or $100k or what?). If it is only at that SOTA level analog edges out a bit ahead, then all you are really saying is analog is irrelevant to 99.9+% of audiophiles. So again, a big so what.

 

[treitz3]

Mike....simple answer here man. To answer your question...not the same folks we think of. Different strokes for different folks kinda' thing. It's all good.

Don't be the fish. Be the whale that observes, listens and/or doesn't care. Don't fall for the bait.

 

[Blizzard]

It may sound better to you, but on the technical level PCM is superior, at least as several technically inclined people here would argue. So yes, your assessment appears to be based on personal emotion, while you claim to be such a technical person who doesn't want 'colorations'.

Maybe if you are reading outdated whitepapers based on single rate DSD. Once we get up to quad DSD, those issues are no longer present. How many chipless DSD DAC's are you playing around with ATM at your place? How about DAC's with direct DSD bypass modes? How many times has the engineer behind the worlds most popular high end DAC chip been over to your place to have an in depth discussion on the matter?

 

[amirm]

Was it a tubed amplifier with an output transformer? Such ARC amplifiers had typically 1 ohm output impedance. Any real load would create significant FR deviations.

Unfortunately I have no more data about it. The author of the test mentioned it in a swedish forum.

 

[Gregadd]

Real music might be colorful in a way the recording isn't. Adding that color is a color, but it will be a persistent color as you have already referenced which isn't real. So in that circumstance a device without color might still be a wonderfully accurate device which you would remove.

No it's not that real music might be colorful. Real music is colorful. Now if I can paraphrase JGH a device should pass music that sounds disconsonant when the source is disconsonat. If the source is not disconsonant then neither should the resultant sound. I can look up the exact quote if you wish.

 

[esldude]

Was it a tubed amplifier with an output transformer? Such ARC amplifiers had typically 1 ohm output impedance. Any real load would create significant FR deviations.

I don't know which AR amp it was. Some of them used a JFET circuit in the middle, and more feedback than most tube/xfmr amps. Seems they had a relatively low output impedance and response flat out to 100khz or some such. It was also true some of these models were accused of sounding faster, cleaner, and too close to good SS to please the normal AR customer.