Grounding system Shunyata Altaira vs Synergistic Research vs Nordost

[Kingrex]

Rex, having worked with you on my home's power system, my curiosity begs me to ask the following. How far do you get by having a very well executed panel and ground plane fronting your audio system. Because you do have that, can that be the reason you're not hearing a benefit from the Puritan hardware?

My personal observation only goes as far as the Shunyata grounding products. Their recommended implementation is what I've heard multiple times in different systems and, in my experience, provided a consistent level of perceptible improvement. As you note, it also requires a significant investment($). Yes, it usually requires time to go through the process. You have to let the hardware 'mature'.

About 4 weeks ago my friend Bob who goes to all the shows with me came over and we went through an exercise of comparing a stock SqD QO loadcenter to one of my fine tuned SqD NQ all copper panelboards. You can see better what I did on Audiophile Junkies Youtube. In short we used the same feeder with the same 2 branch circuits on the same 2 breakers and swapped one panel in, then the other. It took about 10 minutes to swap the panel and get back up to the room.

We were both shocked at the change. The all copper NQ panel was notably more quiet in the room. There was a very audible sibilance through the entire frequency range that was removed. We both felt it was on a magnitude of adding a Torus.

Take a look at these images. A QO loadcenter is commonly landed as per the marked up image. Then look at my NQ panelboard Neutral/ground termination. The NQ panel is solidly bonded between neutral and ground. The ground terminals are solidly bonded to the neutral. They are for the most part as single point bonded as I can make them.
Remember, the loadcenter is all aluminum. The NQ panel I make is all copper. Copper conducts better.
Also, I have never seen a loadcenter in the field where the electrician bonded the ground to neutral with a copper wire. They always rely on the heavy green screw through the neutral bar into the can effectively bonding the can to neutral. Now the can is the current conducting path for all the branch circuit grounds and maybe the earth ground between the ground bar and utility neutral termination.
The relationship between the utility neutral and ground bar is of paramount importance. It is hugely important when it comes to shunting surges to ground. Think how much work a surge has to go through to get from the utility to earth in a loadcenter. In my panel is a direct down traveling path from utility to earth. In a load center it has to go through screw and a metal can.

I don't know how much bearing all this has on a ground box. Its possible the ground is much more effective in my panel and actually draining some noise. I know I have always said an earth ground should not be heard. But properly grounding/bonding in any panel I have touched has almost always had an audible affect of lowering noise you sense in the room. It can be very audible or subtle. Maybe a Shunyata ground box would be more effective. I do believe Caelin is a talented engineer and has the skills to make a ground box that could be superior to others.

It could also be removing the aluminum grounds and neutrals reduces a lot of galvanic reaction between the copper branch wires and the aluminum. There is a notable amount of noise that goes away when you insert a all copper panel. I had a customer last night replace his load center and with a one of my panels and immediately heard a change for the better in noise and in bass response.

You might have to download the pdf to view them. I do not have them in a JPEG as I marking them with a PDF tool.

 

[sbnx]

I had the same concern as you regarding demonstrable proof of efficacy. I once asked someone with a Tripopint if I could disconnect it to hear the results and connect it again but the owner politely declined. However, at AXPONA a few years ago I asked Bea Lam if I could do the disconnect/connect experiment in her room with the Nordost QKore 1and 3 and she kindly agreed. We were playing a superb live recording of Beethoven's 1st piano concerto on LP and I'll be damned but I heard the difference with and without instantly. It wasn't hard to appreciate. So I bought the QKores for my front end and have been very pleased. I have not done a thing about my Mephisto amps with regard to grounding and that is my present quandry. It's tempting but not inexpensive. Hmmm....

When I owned Mephisto I plugged a Qkore into its ground post with a nice positive result.

As always its up to the owner to decide if the benefit is worth the expense.

 

[Lee]

I can vouch for both the Shunyata Altaira system and Synergistic Active Grounding Block both being effective.

 

[Kingrex]

I'm sending the Puritan back. I might try something else some day. For now, I can't complain about what I hear. My system is very quiet yet still dynamic and alive. I don't know I need one. I would rather spend money on a better rack and room.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...I have silver wire connected to the "signal ground" posts on my amps, with the other ends connected to the negative terminals of two 9v batteries. That is, a battery on each "ground." Negative terminal only, so no current flow. Kind of a cheap AQ DBS experiment.

Sunk cost is pretty cheap to try. What does it add? Not definitive, but no downside. Any change would be small, and take a while to manifest.

 

[Kingrex]

I returned the Puritan. I think it actually plays more clean with fuller bass without it. I believe I found complex music less intelligible with it attached. Probably the opposite of what others would say. I really do wonder if properly executed panel work does shunt noise to ground. Why else would people say tying all their case grounds together makes a difference. They are trying to do what I say should be done in the panel. In my case, maybe I am making a big ground loop. The 9 holes in the routemaster show bonded continuity with my Fluke meter. That means I have a bunch of wires tying grounds together in 2 different places. Mesh grounding is utilized in floor systems in data centers. But my stereo is not a floor system. Maybe highly sensitive amplifying equipment wants a highly conductive single point ground which is what I gave it in the panel.
I wm not going to have a chance to try something else for a few years. I have other much larger projects in the hopper.

 

[Lee]

...I have silver wire connected to the "signal ground" posts on my amps, with the other ends connected to the negative terminals of two 9v batteries. That is, a battery on each "ground." Negative terminal only, so no current flow. Kind of a cheap AQ DBS experiment.

Sunk cost is pretty cheap to try. What does it add? Not definitive, but no downside. Any change would be small, and take a while to manifest.

The Altaira impact on my system was pretty significant. I was surprised.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...I don't doubt your experience at all @Lee

After reviewing the docs on the product, I recall my Luxman gear being "not recommended" in the outcome matrix. The "grounding" posts for Luxman are signal ground only. And of course, the actual ground wire from the wall is not connected at the IEC fixture.

Following the back-and-forth, sometimes conflicting commentary, it was looking like a complicated product set for a problem I don't seem to have.

That said, I have followed the various solutions and read AQ and Shunyata patent docs, so I decided to gin up a cheap version of the concept. That may not be the best experiment for others, for sure. Just putting it out there for interested parties, if any.

 

[exupgh12]

The Altaira impact on my system was pretty significant. I was surprised.

Hi Lee,

Is your system utilizing both Altaira (CG + SG) or only one of them?

 

[Lee]

Hi Lee,

Is your system utilizing both Altaira (CG + SG) or only one of them?

Using two right now, stacked.

 

[exupgh12]

Using two right now, stacked.

Thank you for your response, Lee. Cheers!

 

[Macattack]

At the 2022 Florida Audio Expo Suncoast and Shunyata introduced the Altaira. The system sounded very good. On day 2, I asked if they would unplug all the grounding cables and remove the Altaira. Richard from Shunyata and ‘little’ Mike from Suncoast happily obliged.

There were about 15 - 20 people in the room at the time. They played about 5 minutes of the Eagles - “Long Road To Eden” track then removed the Alraira. It took a few minutes.

When they started the track again without the Altaira, the audience collectively stopped them about 2 mins in and asked them to reinsert the Altaira. Demo over, slam dunk the effect/benefit of the Altaira was immediately obvious to all there.

Once I was able to demo it in my room, I repeated that process and it was also a clear slam dunk. YMMV

 

[Solotov]

I can vouch for both the Shunyata Altaira system and Synergistic Active Grounding Block both being effective.

I’m deciding between the two. I only had a chance to demo Altaira, and very impressed. But the separate boxes make total cost too high for me. I’m looking at Synergistic Active Grounding Box as an alternative. Do you think it comes close to Altaira? Which model did you try SE or SX?