Has anyone heard the Devialet D-Premier Integrated Amp/DAC

[gatomusik]

Previously quoted changes:

"Now to the Devialet 240 vs. D-Premier. The Devialet 240 specifications are identical to your D-Premier: same extremely low output impedance (less than 1 mili ohms) same THD less than 0.001% etc. .. We have simply removed the HDMI input to add a USB and an Ethernet connector. We have added a turbo DSP usefull to pave the way for future applications, room correction etc. .."

"The most important parts: the ADH Core, the D/A converter, the clock generator are exactly the same. The higher power DSP is about to make some more power available for room correction. The potentially better power supply can make a difference or not, it is largely depending on what kind of speaker one uses."

One would expect differences between the 110, the 170, the 240 and the 500 depending on the speaker used. There may be minor differences between the D-Premier and the 240 and if one prefers the latter you can make the change foe c.3,500 Euro.

I'm confused. There's some variance between what you are quoting and what follows in boldface, which I've posted in part before, from Devialet's initial information release about the new products. Those million details have disappeared, I guess. The all not new Devialet 240 is altogether new? Or not? Maybe? We're just saying this stuff, because we have to say something? We don't write this stuff, we just work here?

With the new Devialet 110, 170 and 240 range, Devialet has improved a million details to perfect the product experience and offer new development options in the future. Outside of the ADH unit, which has not changed, the mother board has been entirely rerouted.

New USB and Ethernet inputs, improved jitter control for digital inputs, new line and phono inputs, new signal processing unit, ever more reactive and more powerful (peak) power supply, support to integrate room correction in the future, and an operating temperature reduced yet again, by 10°C, ensuring enhanced reliability and lower electrical consumption.

 

[gtiboy]

Can not confirm that decay for the D-Premier at all. Listened to it with a pair of Gauder Cassiano Diamant and it was superb without any flaw. That is why I always ask for the speakers. Some harmonise very well. Others do not have the potential to perform with it. I also listened to combinations that did not impress me much. So the speakers are very important to get full benefit from the Devialets.

I listened to the Devialet 170 with Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor M, I could detect the differences between the two Devialet's. Even the dealer confirmed what we were experiencing.

 

[IanG-UK]

This communication inconsistency from Devialet is a function of the absence of an early definite detailed statement from them about the new products and the changes - which their staff, distributors and dealers then stick to absolutely.

And given that the 240 arrives about four years after the launch of the D-Premier, improving "a million details" suggests they have found almost one thousand improvements every working day ... an exaggeration a bit like their new strap line "one day everyone will own a Devialet"

 

[Nightmare]

I listened to the Devialet 170 with Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor M, (...)

OK. From the data the Devialet 170 should be big enough for the Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor M. Maybe other speakers would benefit more from a bigger one.
We will have to wait for the first reviews I guess.

(...) I could detect the differences between the two Devialet's. Even the dealer confirmed what we were experiencing.

As the new update is influencing the sound as well: Did you listen to the D-Premier allreay updated to 6.0.6 or with an older software?

 

[Revel Salon 2]

Wondering if they will come up with an update to allow playing DSD ? that's the next logical step....their DAC chips (Burr-Brown) can do it

 

[Togil]

Interesting phenomenon when the final cut out occurs : if I then close down Itunes it suddenly starts playing again after about 10 seconds, then stops after a further 10 seconds or so.

 

[gtiboy]

OK. From the data the Devialet 170 should be big enough for the Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor M. Maybe other speakers would benefit more from a bigger one.
We will have to wait for the first reviews I guess.

As the new update is influencing the sound as well: Did you listen to the D-Premier allreay updated to 6.0.6 or with an older software?

The 170 was using firmware 6.0 with Air 1.5, same with the D-Premier.

 

[Nightmare]

Air 1.5

 

[Bernie]

AIR 1.5 didn't work for me with the 6.0 firmware...
maybe they have created a special version of the new firmware that still works with 1.5. Maybe it works to replace the wifi file with the one from the previous firmware...but I don't want to try this

 

[gtiboy]

My mistake, it was Air 1.0. Air 2.0 wasn't used as per issues with Wifi.

 

[Antoine]

It was probably Air1.5 and firmware 5.7.x on the D-Premier.That's the most recent setup that still works.

For the 170 they would have probably demoed using AIR2.0 and firmware 6.0.6 using the ethernet connection on the 170. (That is at least what they used in The Netherlands in a demo of the 170.)

But of course correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Antoine]

+1

Did they tell you, whether the bug also effects the new Devialets or the D-Premier only?
Wonder why the first new ones are out allready while the problem is obviously unsolved!

And what does your testing of the beta Show? Still drop outs?

Sorry for my late reply! I've tested AIR 2.0.1 beta 4 and firmware 6.0.7.2 but unfortunately the dropout issue was still there which was later confirmed by Devialet after I send my detailed findings and test log. When a new beta version (or a final/release candidate) becomes available they will send it to me again. I'll try to keep you all up to date.

NB. I've tested in my own setup which is described a few pages back but centers around a Windows 8 64 bit PC that is setup as a "NAS" (headless PC, so no keyboard/mouse/screen connected).

 

[Antoine]

I'm confused. There's some variance between what you are quoting and what follows in boldface, which I've posted in part before, from Devialet's initial information release about the new products. Those million details have disappeared, I guess. The all not new Devialet 240 is altogether new? Or not? Maybe? We're just saying this stuff, because we have to say something? We don't write this stuff, we just work here?

With the new Devialet 110, 170 and 240 range, Devialet has improved a million details to perfect the product experience and offer new development options in the future. Outside of the ADH unit, which has not changed, the mother board has been entirely rerouted.

New USB and Ethernet inputs, improved jitter control for digital inputs, new line and phono inputs, new signal processing unit, ever more reactive and more powerful (peak) power supply, support to integrate room correction in the future, and an operating temperature reduced yet again, by 10°C, ensuring enhanced reliability and lower electrical consumption.

The quote you mentioned has angried a lot of customers/current owners of one or more Devialet's. A lot of customers wrote angry posts on the Devialet Facebook page and to Devialet directly using email. Especially because Devialet initally said the 110/170 would sound even beter than the D-Premier. I myself 'complained' too because of the blow it gave to the market/resell value of the D-Premier. In the beginning they also didn't mention that it would remain possible to buy a second 240 in the same finish/color as the D-Premier already owned which they later also added as an option. So I think they listened to their current customers (which is always a good thing) and rewrote the initial marketing texts.

Thierry wrote the mail below to me in response to my "angry"/not understanding email:

To be honest, I am the author of the Facebook quotes you mention in your email and I stay 100% behind them.

On our website, we need to be enthusiastic about the new models. We have put considerable effort in bringing to the market the ADH technology down to a 4990€ price point. You need to have an extensive dose of vision, craziness and drive to achieve that!

Secondly, it is our duty as manufacturer to push the limits of our art. Would you seriously expect from us to introduce worst products than the D-Premier? Nobody questions Porsche when they introduce a new 911 version.

Now, the differences between the D-Premier and the D240 are mainly the inputs and the new DSP. If you don't need the new inputs, the D-Premier might just be the perfect answer to your needs! Even if we have tweaked here and there the electronics, I am ready to bet that very few people can make the difference between a D-Premier and a D240. Why? Because the D-Premier is already the ultimate music reproduction tool!

The D110 doesn't sound better than the D-Premier. It has the same sound signature. It has the same ADH stage. On the other hand it has been stripped down to answer the needs of a particular customer base who don't need the bells and whistles of a D-Premier or a D240, will never need to build a multi amp system and just need 110W of power. Totally different products for different needs.

What you have at home Antoine, is the best piece of equipment available on the market. Full stop!

If you really need the upgrade to a D240, come back to us in October and we will explain you how to do it.

Thanks again and be sure that we cherish our D-Premier customer base. You are the people who have made Devialet what we are now.

 

[microstrip]

Antoine,

We must understand that the Devialet amplifier was very good but not perfect - such thing does not exist in audio. As a proof of it we have the fact that two D-premier used in monoblocks sounded much better than a single unit, different power cables or digital cables make it sound very different and, as far as I have been told, the PS Audio P10 make it sound better in many situations. If Devialet now makes it better with the new versions, we should be happy with it. I will surely listen to the new D240 when it becomes available, specially now that I own a P10, even knowing that probably someday there will be a D480!

BTW, I loved their answer "Nobody questions Porsche when they introduce a new 911 version."

 

[Petter]

BTW, I loved their answer "Nobody questions Porsche when they introduce a new 911 version."

well if i go to the dealer on Monday and buy one,i suppose the dealer are informed that it comes a new model on Friday,and tell me

 

[IanG-UK]

well if i go to the dealer on Monday and buy one,i suppose the dealer are informed that it comes a new model on Friday,and tell me

To be fair, the new Devialet range was "signalled" on a website and in HiFi News about a month before Munich, and you have only been able to get the new models one month post Munich. So effectively two months' notice not to buy a D-Premier if you wanted a 240 (or 170 or 110).

The somewhat reflective clarification by Devialet, that "I am ready to bet that very few people can make the difference between a D-Premier and a D240" hopefully nulls the initial bluster which gave the impression that the D-Premier was obsolete, which was always a complete nonsense.

 

[Antoine]

After the first disappointment I feel OK about it all now. However I never agreed with the Porsche 911 analogy so this is what I wrote back, back then (end of May):

I have to say, for new potential customers your new lineup is great. It’s also kind of refreshing that you don’t “cripple” your entry level models sound quality wise and offer so much performance in these models. I’m sure you will sell a lot!

For now I’ll have to take your word on the changes to the V5 circuit boards have to be seen as tweaks (except of course the new Ethernet/USB inputs and new DSP). Of course it’s a good thing that you keep improving but I don’t quite agree with the Porsche 911 analogy you gave. Usually company’s like Porsche but also high-end audio firms improve on their best and introduce new best versions but they don’t usually give (or say they give) the same sound quality/sound signature properties to versions costing little more than 1/3rd compared to their best models. I understand that you say that your more affordable 110/170 models are also stripped but to my opinion they differentiate very little between one another. Power in watts for example which seems to be the biggest differentiator isn’t at all important in a home setting using common loudspeakers on the market today. A maximum of 110, 170 or 240 watts will all produce sound levels that are more than sufficient except maybe for your customers who live in large homes/have large listening rooms. To me much more important are other properties of an amplifier like speed and current reserves for unhindered dynamics, low distortion etc.

But of course I wouldn’t want to start a lengthy discussion, it’s not worth your time. I just wanted to share my views as a current customer and share with you that I know a lot of customers think this way. I’ve seen this both on your Facebook page, as on multiple user discussion forums. All I can hope for is that you will take these opinions serious and maybe rethink your current upgrade offer to better reflect that you really cherish your D-Premier customer base. For me and a lot of others I know of these upgrades are not only performed to get the new features but also to “repair” the second hand/market value of the D-Premier by bringing it back up to date to 240 specs. Of course it’s commendable that you offer the upgrades at all, in any form but of course this has always already been one of Devialets strong selling points; customers are guaranteed to keep an up to date, upgradable and continually evolving platform.

 

[Petter]

To be fair, the new Devialet range was "signalled" on a website and in HiFi News about a month before Munich

You are right about that,was just a comment, but to say Nobody questions Porsche when they introduce a new 911 version" ?
If you are into 911,s you know exactly whats around the corner months before,so you can choose if you want to wait or buy the old model,not based on rumors i think

My dealer tells me they did have no information whatever then or now ?

Bu Its great they update with new models honestly

But what we experience today with no information and products sent out into the marked that doesn't work is not good IMO.

 

[Fischerp]

Sorry for my late reply! I've tested AIR 2.0.1 beta 4 and firmware 6.0.7.2 but unfortunately the dropout issue was still there which was later confirmed by Devialet after I send my detailed findings and test log. When a new beta version (or a final/release candidate) becomes available they will send it to me again. I'll try to keep you all up to date.

NB. I've tested in my own setup which is described a few pages back but centers around a Windows 8 64 bit PC that is setup as a "NAS" (headless PC, so no keyboard/mouse/screen connected).

Was it any better than the current versions?

 

[Nightmare]

Usually company’s like Porsche but also high-end audio firms improve on their best and introduce new best versions but they don’t usually give (or say they give) the same sound quality/sound signature properties to versions costing little more than 1/3rd compared to their best models.

Right, they won´t. And I think that´s clever

Power in watts for example which seems to be the biggest differentiator isn’t at all important in a home setting using common loudspeakers on the market today. A maximum of 110, 170 or 240 watts will all produce sound levels that are more than sufficient except maybe for your customers who live in large homes/have large listening rooms. To me much more important are other properties of an amplifier like speed and current reserves for unhindered dynamics, low distortion etc.

Right also. But in the end we will see by reviews, whether there are really no differences in sound using speaker A or B or not. If there shouldn´t be some - maybe due to additional differences in speed, current reserves for unhindered dynamics or distortion - they would have done a very bad job. For the purpose of what you mentioned for the 911. These other little differences in small features would not justifiy the price difference at all. I would be disappointed having bought a D-Premier and could have the same sound quality with a 170 (or even better) now for half of the price and less.

OK, the big Devialet is hand polished

But honest: This would be like a shoot in their own foot. If you would have to search for arguments to go for the big one instead of the smaller Devialets. And I mean for sound reasons and not for additional features.