Has anyone moved on from idlers, Garrards??

[SONDEKNZ]

I spent quite a while looking at the Wand a while back. I was looking at the Schroder set-up and it looks really fiddly. I've only heard good things about the Wand, it suits the SoundSmith I want to use and my other option would be a DL103, which apparently is the most popular cartridge for the Wand. Plus I'd rather buy from a chilled New Zealander than a German who's slightly up his rear end, the artistic temperament apparently. So I've spoken to the Wand dealer and will likely go ahead.

My DL103 is the Expert Stylus upgrade with ruby cantilever and paratrace stylus. Well worth investigating. Giant killer for £850 (20% VAT inclusive).

I can certainly recommend the WAND PLUS arm fitted to a LINN LP12.

Our heavily modified LP12 sounds superb, even with the lowly DENON DL-110. Frankly, many music-lovers would probably be very happy to stop there.

We have since mounted the stock standard DENON DL-103R and the music-making stepped-up to yet another level.

As long-term owners of the wonderful SHELTER 501/2 - which also sounds stunning on the WAND PLUS - the DENON cartridges are something of a bargain.

To which turntable are you considering fitting a WAND tonearm?

 

[ssfas]

I

I can certainly recommend the WAND PLUS arm fitted to a LINN LP12.

Our heavily modified LP12 sounds superb, even with the lowly DENON DL-110. Frankly, many music-lovers would probably be very happy to stop there.

We have since mounted the stock standard DENON DL-103R and the music-making stepped-up to yet another level.

As long-term owners of the wonderful SHELTER 501/2 - which also sounds stunning on the WAND PLUS - the DENON cartridges are something of a bargain.

To which turntable are you considering fitting a WAND tonearm?

I have pretty much settled on a Wand Plus 10.3". I know the dealer, he is very helpful, the UK distributor was also quick to respond about compliance and cabling. As easy and pleasant as they are, Schroder comes across as the opposite, like it is a privilege to own one of his arms (it may be, but I don't like that attitude).

I know the Wand community are not believers in uber-cartriges, a good deck and arm and you're most of the way there, hence the Denon fan club. I really can recommend the Expert Stylus version, it defies belief.

The plan is Garrard 301 + 12" Reed 3P (MC via RCM Sensor 2 Mk2 phono) + 10.3" Wand Plus (MI via Luxman 509X internal phono).

The deal is done. I'm trading in a couple of things with a dealer called Nic for a donor 301 and some cash, which goes to Ray Clark at the Classic Turntable Company. Nic and Ray have a long relationship and he sends Ray loads of donor machines. It's useful because there is no risk that Ray will have an issue with the donor machine. Nic will pick up the p/x units in a few weeks when he's in my area. I will choose some veneer and send it to Carl Ellis, who is 25 miles from Ray, who will make the plinth and install the deck. I will probably drive up to Carl, get both arms mounted, disassemble, pop over to Ray for a cup of tea and drive home.

So it's a reliable and well trodden path. The other nearby plinths come from Acoustand. A chap called Russ Collinson also used to make them, and was very popular, but he's stopped doing them. He was very near Ray and very reliable, so a bit of a loss.

If all goes to plan, I will take some photos on my little round trip.

 

[Rensselaer]

I

I have pretty much settled on a Wand Plus 10.3". I know the dealer, he is very helpful, the UK distributor was also quick to respond about compliance and cabling. As easy and pleasant as they are, Schroder comes across as the opposite, like it is a privilege to own one of his arms (it may be, but I don't like that attitude).

I know the Wand community are not believers in uber-cartriges, a good deck and arm and you're most of the way there, hence the Denon fan club. I really can recommend the Expert Stylus version, it defies belief.

The plan is Garrard 301 + 12" Reed 3P (MC via RCM Sensor 2 Mk2 phono) + 10.3" Wand Plus (MI via Luxman 509X internal phono).

The deal is done. I'm trading in a couple of things with a dealer called Nic for a donor 301 and some cash, which goes to Ray Clark at the Classic Turntable Company. Nic and Ray have a long relationship and he sends Ray loads of donor machines. It's useful because there is no risk that Ray will have an issue with the donor machine. Nic will pick up the p/x units in a few weeks when he's in my area. I will choose some veneer and send it to Carl Ellis, who is 25 miles from Ray, who will make the plinth and install the deck. I will probably drive up to Carl, get both arms mounted, disassemble, pop over to Ray for a cup of tea and drive home.

So it's a reliable and well trodden path. The other nearby plinths come from Acoustand. A chap called Russ Collinson also used to make them, and was very popular, but he's stopped doing them. He was very near Ray and very reliable, so a bit of a loss.

If all goes to plan, I will take some photos on my little round trip.

 

[ssfas]

I can certainly recommend the WAND PLUS arm fitted to a LINN LP12.

Our heavily modified LP12 sounds superb, even with the lowly DENON DL-110. Frankly, many music-lovers would probably be very happy to stop there.

We have since mounted the stock standard DENON DL-103R and the music-making stepped-up to yet another level.

As long-term owners of the wonderful SHELTER 501/2 - which also sounds stunning on the WAND PLUS - the DENON cartridges are something of a bargain.

To which turntable are you considering fitting a WAND tonearm?

Ordered a Wand 10.3 for Garrard 301.

 

[SONDEKNZ]

Ordered a Wand 10.3 for Garrard 301.

Outstanding choice!

Did you opt for the PLUS model?

I'm really looking forward to reading all about your listening experiences with your new WAND tonearm.

If your adventure is anything like my own, the relaxed and organic sonic character of your new WAND tonearm will be immediate and unmissable.

Exciting!

 

[ssfas]

Outstanding choice!

Did you opt for the PLUS model?

I'm really looking forward to reading all about your listening experiences with your new WAND tonearm.

If your adventure is anything like my own, the relaxed and organic sonic character of your new WAND tonearm will be immediate and unmissable.

Exciting!

A very good dealer came round on Saturday, who I've used for years, to pick up a couple of surplus items. He should have sent a donor Garrard 301 to Ray at Classic Turntables. The plinth is being made by a guy called Carl, who is about 40 miles from Ray. Some veneer is on its way to him. I'm thinking of getting the Longdog power supply, the one sold by Artisan Fidelity. Longdog is a very nice guy called Nick Gorham, who is only 15 miles from Ray. Meanwhile, the Wand arm is coming from the other side of the planet and should be a month. So should be ready early January and I will pop up and do the grand tour.

 

[kozzmo]

@kozzmo I believe you should keep your idler and add to it. By that, I mean that I think everyone who’s serious about vinyl should own one of each genre, i.e., idler, belt, direct drive. For my belt, I own a Clearaudio Innovation Wood with 12” Universal tone arm. For my direct drive, I own a SP10mkii beautifully rebuilt, including power supply, in a massive sapelle plinth by Peter Noerbaek of PBN Audio with a 12” Sorane ZA tonearm (I purchased this deck from Rob Wyatt who commissioned it for the 2018 New York Audio Show to compare an original SP10 with the debut of the SP10R). And my next purchase will be either a 301 or 401 so I’ll have the idler genre covered.

I believe each of the turntable genres has something unique to offer for the type of music being played, the way it was recorded/mastered, etc. This is just my approach and to offer an alternative way for you to think about your situation. -cheers!

so ultimately this is direction I am choosing to go....Keeping the Garrard and going to add a blet drive....maybe a Kuzma if I can find a used one...

 

[Al Stewart]

@Rensselaer your TT is beautiful. Like you, I am currently running a CTC Reference 301. I have it sitting in an Artisan Fidelity Statement Plinth. (Christopher Thornton was terrific to work with in building a plinth to accommodate the CTC TT.) I am currently running a Reed 3P (10.5 inch) tonearm and a Lyra Atlas Lambda SL cartridge. I’m wondering if you have had occasion to compare a Reed 3P to 5A on your TT deck? I’m intrigued by the Reed 5A (Chris Thornton has very good things to say about it) but I’m not unhappy with my Reed 3P—it makes great music. I’d like to get other opinions on Reed 3P and Reed 5A comparisons on 301, if possible.

 

[Rensselaer]

@Rensselaer your TT is beautiful. Like you, I am currently running a CTC Reference 301. I have it sitting in an Artisan Fidelity Statement Plinth. (Christopher Thornton was terrific to work with in building a plinth to accommodate the CTC TT.) I am currently running a Reed 3P (10.5 inch) tonearm and a Lyra Atlas Lambda SL cartridge. I’m wondering if you have had occasion to compare a Reed 3P to 5A on your TT deck? I’m intrigued by the Reed 5A (Chris Thornton has very good things to say about it) but I’m not unhappy with my Reed 3P—it makes great music. I’d like to get other opinions on Reed 3P and Reed 5A comparisons on 301, if possible.

Hi Al,

In answer to your question, no, I’ve not compared the two arms. I suggest you contact Hugo at sales@ammonite-audio.co.uk. He was the Reed tonearm dealer that I used and is very knowledgeable on those (and a great deal more). He is friendly and most helpful.
Mark

 

[Down in Devon]

I had a modified Lenco (B51) with custom brass bearing, slate plinth, custom carbon idler, and most of the easy to implement mods.

I used it with a nice replica 12 Schroeder, and a 12 schick with a variety of cartridges and it was overall pretty nice. However I am pitch sensitive, and didn't find it perfectly stable. I also found it relatively noisy.
I upgraded to a StSt and for me it was a significant improvement in all aspects of sound.

 

[bonzo75]

I had a modified Lenco (B51) with custom brass bearing, slate plinth, custom carbon idler, and most of the easy to implement mods.
View attachment 124632
I used it with a nice replica 12 Schroeder, and a 12 schick with a variety of cartridges and it was overall pretty nice. However I am pitch sensitive, and didn't find it perfectly stable. I also found it relatively noisy.
I upgraded to a StSt and for me it was a significant improvement in all aspects of sound.

the STST was quite better than the PTP lenco at Anamighty sound too

 

[AudioHR]

I had a modified Lenco (B51) with custom brass bearing, slate plinth, custom carbon idler, and most of the easy to implement mods.
View attachment 124632
I used it with a nice replica 12 Schroeder, and a 12 schick with a variety of cartridges and it was overall pretty nice. However I am pitch sensitive, and didn't find it perfectly stable. I also found it relatively noisy.
I upgraded to a StSt and for me it was a significant improvement in all aspects of sound.

Sorry, StSt refers to which table manufacturer ?

 

[kozzmo]

I had a modified Lenco (B51) with custom brass bearing, slate plinth, custom carbon idler, and most of the easy to implement mods.
View attachment 124632
I used it with a nice replica 12 Schroeder, and a 12 schick with a variety of cartridges and it was overall pretty nice. However I am pitch sensitive, and didn't find it perfectly stable. I also found it relatively noisy.
I upgraded to a StSt and for me it was a significant improvement in all aspects of sound.

So I ended up purchasing a Kuzma Stabi R and put the Garrard in the closet. As much as love the sound of the Garrard, and nothing I have heard does piano and bass quite like it, the Kuzma overall is a much more all around turntable. And like you I immediately noticed the pitch stability thing...what I didn't expect to find is how many more LP's the Kuzma plays. With the Garrard Lp's either sounded great or not great...the Kuzma just plays them all and with absolutely zero fatigue. I just keep spinning records with the kuzma oh yeah the inner detail thing too....didn't realize what I was missing without that extra bit or room echo or space around the instruments.....

 

[djsina2]

Sorry, StSt refers to which table manufacturer ?

STST

 

[AudioHR]

STST

Thanks, to easy duh, lol!

 

[Solypsa]

Sorry, StSt refers to which table manufacturer ?

Made by STefan STrohmetz

 

[AudioHR]

Made by STefan STrohmetz

Got it lol. Obviously I had not heard of this table before.

 

[Agrail]

Garrard Lp's either sounded great or not great...the Kuzma just plays them all and with absolutely zero fatigue.

Curious about this description, I've never heard a Garrard described as fatiguing? (I've heard a lot of pro & con's just not this)

 

[kozzmo]

Curious about this description, I've never heard a Garrard described as fatiguing? (I've heard a lot of pro & con's just not this)

I've had 3 now and what I have heard with all of them, regardless of plinth or platter/bearing mods, is they lack that slight ease you can get with a belt drive. The Garrard sound, as you well know, is one that is propulsive and to me sometimes that can get tiresome. Don't get me wrong, that propulsion is highly addictive and something I dove into for 25 years, But the more highly refined you make a garrard with new platters and bearings and what not the more exaggerated it can be sometimes...and I am now at the point where I want to stop messing with machines and just spin records. I am not done with the Garrard. Just giving it some rest!!

 

[Argonaut]

The Garrard sound, as you well know, is one that is propulsive and to me sometimes that can get tiresome. Don't get me wrong, that propulsion is highly addictive and something I dove into for 25 years, But the more highly refined you make a garrard with new platters and bearings and what not the more exaggerated it can be sometimes...

For some this is where a Thorens TD-124 comes in , Idler DNA but with a slightly lighter hand than the 301 , if circumstances allow nice to run both .