Has anyone moved on from idlers, Garrards??

[Robert Young]

I owned and fiddled Thorens TD124, Lenco L70 in the past. I didn’t own but heard Garrard 301/401 many times in different arm cartridge combinations. They’re all good tables. IMHO Lenco has the best potential among them. When you move to a well designed and built belt drive everything becomes so much refined and real you can not go back.

I knew my mom was right when she said there was something wrong with me…i went the other way. That’s my L75/PTP 6 in my avatar, and my daily driver is an STS TD-124 (with 4 arms and multiple carts). Couldn’t be happier with the Lenco vertical idler and hybrid Thorens, though i did enjoy many hours spent experimenting with belt materials back in my wayward youth.

 

[No Regrets]

bought a Kuzma Stabi M and immediately got everything I was missing from the 401. I have since bought a Verdier La Platine also and have six arms at my disposal.

I'm curious, how does the Stabi M compare to the Verdier?
Thank you and best wishes,
Don

 

[Rensselaer]

do you have new bearing and platter too??

Yes, the Classic Turntable Company 301 Reference machines the chassis and platter on CNC from solid brass, he makes his own bearing too with much tighter tolerances.

 

[Be Quiet...Listen]

what are the 6 arms and carts?

3 Kuzma arms, one Schroder and 2 classic 12".
Had 29 MC's at once until recently. Koetsu, Air Tight and EMT remain.

I'm curious, how does the Stabi M compare to the Verdier?
Thank you and best wishes,
Don

In my experience and my language, the Stabi M has a more musically engaging character and the Verdier is more impactful and detailed.

 

[Solypsa]

It's a huge compliment to a 49 yo table ( PV ) that it stays in the front running!

 

[zerostargeneral]

I personally went the other way round.

 

[No Regrets]

In my experience and my language, the Stabi M has a more musically engaging character and the Verdier is more impactful and detailed.

Thank you for sharing your experience with me! Which has been your favorite tonearm that you've used with the Stabi M?

 

[Solypsa]

I personally went the other way round.View attachment 118163

The Viv Lab takes it in a 'less than typical' direction however...

 

[Agrail]

I personally went the other way round

We're seeing this more and more often. The reasoning when asked ranges from: Dedicated Mono front ends, a thirst for drive & dynamics. Through to guys who've run the audio gauntlet over many years to end up full circle hankering after a 'classic' and all that connotes.

 

[adrianywu]

Yes, the Classic Turntable Company 301 Reference machines the chassis and platter on CNC from solid brass, he makes his own bearing too with much tighter tolerances.

I too have the CTC 301 with upgraded platter (aluminium), bearing and chassis. It is a completely different kettle of fish from the original (at least with my 1956 unmodified original) and several levels higher. I would love to compare directly with the new 301 from SME, which is supposed to sound exactly the way it was back in the day.

 

[JimmyJet]

@kozzmo I believe you should keep your idler and add to it. By that, I mean that I think everyone who’s serious about vinyl should own one of each genre, i.e., idler, belt, direct drive. For my belt, I own a Clearaudio Innovation Wood with 12” Universal tone arm. For my direct drive, I own a SP10mkii beautifully rebuilt, including power supply, in a massive sapelle plinth by Peter Noerbaek of PBN Audio with a 12” Sorane ZA tonearm (I purchased this deck from Rob Wyatt who commissioned it for the 2018 New York Audio Show to compare an original SP10 with the debut of the SP10R). And my next purchase will be either a 301 or 401 so I’ll have the idler genre covered.

I believe each of the turntable genres has something unique to offer for the type of music being played, the way it was recorded/mastered, etc. This is just my approach and to offer an alternative way for you to think about your situation. -cheers!

 

[Rensselaer]

Idler‘s (Garrards) have a reputation for “rumbling”. I mentioned the CNC-machined solid brass used by Classic Turntable Company to make both the chassis and platter (in the “Reference”, which also includes a power supply), which certainly eliminates any rumble, but I took an additional step to ensure that no macro or micro vibrations would reach the tonearm … I had the plinth built from a significant chunk of veneered Panzerholz. My CTC Reference 301 now weighs over 100 lbs and, other than the vibrations picked up from the record grooves, is silent.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

I also had the CNC´d chassis from CTC
CTC did such a shitty job on refurbing the drive; after a nights accidental continuous drive, it squeeled like a pig in the morningI
had to send it to Jaap Pees of Hanzehifi in Netherlands
also bought his external regen psu
that helped
then I had the 13,5 kg twoogoodears/Stefano Bertoncello bronze platter and larger bearing, all mounted in a slate plinth from Shaun Daniels
I even replaced slate armboards with custom cnc´d bronze ones
and ordered bespoke towers for springs to decouple plinth from slate base instead of sorbothane balls
still it was a revelation to move on to my Melco 3560 silkthread drive with 35kg bronze platter and custom 60kg ss316 plinth
sheer silence and pitch stability was alone worth the money
have a doctors stetoscope and its absolutely not a sound from bearing to plinth while running
only player I´ve had that passed that test

 

[Rensselaer]

I also had the CNC´d chassis from CTC
CTC did such a shitty job on refurbing the drive; after a nights accidental continuous drive, it squeeled like a pig in the morningI
had to send it to Jaap Pees of Hanzehifi in Netherlands
also bought his external regen psu
that helped
then I had the 13,5 kg twoogoodears/Stefano Bertoncello bronze platter and larger bearing, all mounted in a slate plinth from Shaun Daniels
I even replaced slate armboards with custom cnc´d bronze ones
and ordered bespoke towers for springs to decouple plinth from slate base instead of sorbothane balls
still it was a revelation to move on to my Melco 3560 silkthread drive with 35kg bronze platter and custom 60kg ss316 plinth
sheer silence and pitch stability was alone worth the money
have a doctors stetoscope and its absolutely not a sound from bearing to plinth while running
only player I´ve had that passed that test

Sorry your experience with CTC was so bad … what did Ray say when you told him the issue you were having? Did he offer to replace the motor?

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

Sorry your experience with CTC was so bad … what did Ray say when you told him the issue you were having? Did he offer to replace the motor?

I had so little contact with him, as he was mostly preoccipied with his daughters wedding, so I never bothered returning it, after having waited for months....when Jaap got it, first he discovered was a dried out sinter bearing in motor, which needed reinjection of oil/grease under pressure......also some other elementary issues

 

[kozzmo]

@kozzmo I believe you should keep your idler and add to it. By that, I mean that I think everyone who’s serious about vinyl should own one of each genre, i.e., idler, belt, direct drive. For my belt, I own a Clearaudio Innovation Wood with 12” Universal tone arm. For my direct drive, I own a SP10mkii beautifully rebuilt, including power supply, in a massive sapelle plinth by Peter Noerbaek of PBN Audio with a 12” Sorane ZA tonearm (I purchased this deck from Rob Wyatt who commissioned it for the 2018 New York Audio Show to compare an original SP10 with the debut of the SP10R). And my next purchase will be either a 301 or 401 so I’ll have the idler genre covered.

I believe each of the turntable genres has something unique to offer for the type of music being played, the way it was recorded/mastered, etc. This is just my approach and to offer an alternative way for you to think about your situation. -cheers!

Ideally that is the solution...I would probably add more than move on...but I only have so much space...I think in the short term it makes to look at what I have and maybe service some of the parts....the motor was last serviced(by me) in 2006 and the idler pully and some other little bits probably should be replaced...

 

[jbrrp1]

@kozzmo I believe you should keep your idler and add to it. By that, I mean that I think everyone who’s serious about vinyl should own one of each genre, i.e., idler, belt, direct drive. For my belt, I own a Clearaudio Innovation Wood with 12” Universal tone arm. For my direct drive, I own a SP10mkii beautifully rebuilt, including power supply, in a massive sapelle plinth by Peter Noerbaek of PBN Audio with a 12” Sorane ZA tonearm (I purchased this deck from Rob Wyatt who commissioned it for the 2018 New York Audio Show to compare an original SP10 with the debut of the SP10R). And my next purchase will be either a 301 or 401 so I’ll have the idler genre covered.

I believe each of the turntable genres has something unique to offer for the type of music being played, the way it was recorded/mastered, etc. This is just my approach and to offer an alternative way for you to think about your situation. -cheers!

Now you've got to get the Esoteric T1 for a magnetic induction drive, to cover that base.....

 

[Solypsa]

@kozzmo I believe you should keep your idler and add to it. By that, I mean that I think everyone who’s serious about vinyl should own one of each genre, i.e., idler, belt, direct drive. For my belt, I own a Clearaudio Innovation Wood with 12” Universal tone arm. For my direct drive, I own a SP10mkii beautifully rebuilt, including power supply, in a massive sapelle plinth by Peter Noerbaek of PBN Audio with a 12” Sorane ZA tonearm (I purchased this deck from Rob Wyatt who commissioned it for the 2018 New York Audio Show to compare an original SP10 with the debut of the SP10R). And my next purchase will be either a 301 or 401 so I’ll have the idler genre covered.

I believe each of the turntable genres has something unique to offer for the type of music being played, the way it was recorded/mastered, etc. This is just my approach and to offer an alternative way for you to think about your situation. -cheers!

Is it your goal to use similar carts across the three tables to allow more focus on what each table is doing, or to find three different carts that in your view support each tables strength? Just curious

 

[JimmyJet]

Is it your goal to use similar carts across the three tables to allow more focus on what each table is doing, or to find three different carts that in your view support each tables strength? Just curious

No - to be honest, the other reason I like the multi-turntable approach is it offers the opportunity to have different tonearms and carts, e.g., on my CA belt drive, I have a very tuned system using a CA tonearm and CA cart - as I heard this combo at my LAD, fell in love with it, and actually came home with it as they let me purchase the demo unit. (They also hooked it up to the same pre and power amps and speakers that I have so I knew exactly how it would sound when I got it home [except for the room acoustics, of course]). I use this table mostly for jazz, classical, opera, and some newer pop/rock remasters, or whatever I think sounds best on it.
On my SP10mkII, with the Sorane tonearm, it has such a high mass, that only very low-compliant carts work well with it and I found a great match with the EMT HSD006 cart - this table/arm/cart excels on original pop/rock recordings 60's - 80's.
When I eventually get an idler, I have in mind to get an arm with an interchangeable head shell and put one of the Ortofon SPU's on it!
So, yeah, I think having multiple turntables with different arms and carts just adds to the fun and I think it's great trying and album out on one table, then moving it to the other one(s) to see which one interprets the music best! -cheers!

 

[Agrail]

.I think in the short term it makes to look at what I have and maybe service some of the parts....the motor was last serviced(by me) in 2006 and the idler pully and some other little bits probably should be replaced...

Like vintage cars / cameras / watches or any vintage precision engineering, you need to roll your sleeves up with Garrards. The rewards are worth it.

Zerostargeneral's example (pictured above) is the best i've heard in 400+ examples I've got to know. ​