Is the NAT Audio Magma New SE still the highest output singled-ended triode amplifier?
Or has some other, newer product dethroned the Magma New SE?
Or has some other, newer product dethroned the Magma New SE?
Highest Power SET Amplifier?
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
Just quantifying whether Class A push pull triode topology might also in play here Micro. A few interesting observations here.....
http://http://www.turneraudio.com.au/loadmatch3-pp-triodes.htm
http://http://www.turneraudio.com.au/loadmatch3-pp-triodes.htm
power is somewhat meaningless - distortion at power is more telling. most of these "high power" SETs do so at extremely high distortion.
+1, depending on what they are some become nonlinear and distorted just past 10 Watts! Some already indroduce distortion with parallel output tubes design for that extra wattage, you need the right speaker to get the benefits of a SET amp pushing it with major design compromises to drive a load it was never intended for is the wrong approach; IMO.
david
True, Keith and David. But those bad distortion figures generally relate to low frequencies. With biamped Pendragons I am relieving the SETs of duty below 200 Hz where the distortion is highest.
That’s not true Ron, depending on the speaker the resistance can become jiggy at any frequency, what’s the efficiency of your main panels? Do you have measurement to know what’s going on with speaker at various frequencies? I very much doubt that a manufacturer of high powered SS amps would have SETs in my mind when designing speakers.
david
david
Yes, but I think that is a separate variable.
I thought the largest issue with distortion from SET amplifiers occurs when the amplifiers are tasked with reproducing the lowest frequencies? SETs' output is most distorted at the lowest frequencies.
I thought the largest issue with distortion from SET amplifiers occurs when the amplifiers are tasked with reproducing the lowest frequencies? SETs' output is most distorted at the lowest frequencies.
My apologies Ron for going ' Off Reservation' aomewhat, however have you considered OTL topology as one potential solution.
http://http://www.atma-sphere.com/Products/#MA-1
Good for 130-140 watts A class depending on 8 or 4 Ohm tap respectively, the next up the food chain MA-2...easily breaking the 200 Watt Class A ceiling, several similarities to SE, importantly in the midrange with less concern over distortion levels than pure SE topology.
http://http://www.atma-sphere.com/Products/#MA-2
Merely a thought.
http://http://www.atma-sphere.com/Products/#MA-1
Good for 130-140 watts A class depending on 8 or 4 Ohm tap respectively, the next up the food chain MA-2...easily breaking the 200 Watt Class A ceiling, several similarities to SE, importantly in the midrange with less concern over distortion levels than pure SE topology.
http://http://www.atma-sphere.com/Products/#MA-2
Merely a thought.
Generally speaking, you don't want to drive a SET much beyond 20-30% of its rated power; however, I have experienced enough exceptions to this rule to say that it is more of a rule of thumb rather than an ironclad law.
I would avoid any SET for which measurements are available and that they show issues with bass distortion...this has ramifications throughout the whole frequency range and not just bass. Now if you are going to actively feed it only mid and higher frequencies then that requirement might be somewhat relaxed. However, I have found that even with sensitive, easy to drive speakers the top SETs with serious output iron triumph over those with weedy little output trannies. They have greater transparency, are more relaxed and will have a purer tonality.
IF you are going to push the SET hard then it really pays to look at the design and size of the power supply...if it is under strain that will likely increase distortion and lessen the sense of authority.
I have had good success with SETs and normal speakers but only from the likes of Aries Cerat, KR Audio, Ayon and NAT. I haven't had Lamm in house so it is hard for me to say what they do with normal speakers...although they don't really have a high powered model in the first place.
I would avoid any SET for which measurements are available and that they show issues with bass distortion...this has ramifications throughout the whole frequency range and not just bass. Now if you are going to actively feed it only mid and higher frequencies then that requirement might be somewhat relaxed. However, I have found that even with sensitive, easy to drive speakers the top SETs with serious output iron triumph over those with weedy little output trannies. They have greater transparency, are more relaxed and will have a purer tonality.
IF you are going to push the SET hard then it really pays to look at the design and size of the power supply...if it is under strain that will likely increase distortion and lessen the sense of authority.
I have had good success with SETs and normal speakers but only from the likes of Aries Cerat, KR Audio, Ayon and NAT. I haven't had Lamm in house so it is hard for me to say what they do with normal speakers...although they don't really have a high powered model in the first place.
Hello Ron,
While this one only tops out at 117 WPC and is technically PSET (not sure if that fits your category), it is a beast of a SET amp to look at:
https://www.audiothesis.com/pf100
I'm hoping in about 6 months I can afford to bring in a demo pair of these. Right now I've got the Evolution 845 (55 WPC PSET) and it is glorious. Their transformers are exceptional and one of a kind since they are developed in-house at MastersounD. One other big Italian tube amp designer lost a suit to MastersounD due to an attempt to reverse engineer their transformers.
While this one only tops out at 117 WPC and is technically PSET (not sure if that fits your category), it is a beast of a SET amp to look at:
https://www.audiothesis.com/pf100
I'm hoping in about 6 months I can afford to bring in a demo pair of these. Right now I've got the Evolution 845 (55 WPC PSET) and it is glorious. Their transformers are exceptional and one of a kind since they are developed in-house at MastersounD. One other big Italian tube amp designer lost a suit to MastersounD due to an attempt to reverse engineer their transformers.
Looking forward to reading how this thread emerges...i remember having a big thread about SOTA powerful tube amps for my Strads...and eventually after pages and pages of reading, discussions and my own listening...i ended up with a Gryphon Antileon. And on to a Colosseum.
I am NOT saying this happens here, but I still am very interested in hearing what people have to recommend that fits Ron's requirements. I guess Wavac probably fit somewhere in here which I also considered seriously for a while (but could not get proper coverage here). I also have to think Aries Cerat will factor into this dialogue.
I am NOT saying this happens here, but I still am very interested in hearing what people have to recommend that fits Ron's requirements. I guess Wavac probably fit somewhere in here which I also considered seriously for a while (but could not get proper coverage here). I also have to think Aries Cerat will factor into this dialogue.
Dear Ron,
I assume your pendragon mains come with bass towers amps and adjustment panels that include bass gain adjustment. Even with those adjustability, if you wish to play around with SETs for main speakers make sure you do homework well on the preamp you will be using too. Using different brands is always tempting and fun but synergy of the same brand for amps and preamp I find trump the standalone goodness of an equipment and a lot less headache.
Kind regards,
Tang
I assume your pendragon mains come with bass towers amps and adjustment panels that include bass gain adjustment. Even with those adjustability, if you wish to play around with SETs for main speakers make sure you do homework well on the preamp you will be using too. Using different brands is always tempting and fun but synergy of the same brand for amps and preamp I find trump the standalone goodness of an equipment and a lot less headache.
Kind regards,
Tang
Thank you, Tang. My only pre-amp, now or in the future, is the Io Eclipse.
And I appreciate all the comments, gentlemen. But does anybody actually have an answer to the original opening post question?
And I appreciate all the comments, gentlemen. But does anybody actually have an answer to the original opening post question?
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