Hint of new Magico products

[DaveyF]

Well, I believe the Q7 lists for $175,000, so this is a bargin, looks better, and probably sounds just as good, if not better.

I have said this before and I say again...I simply cannot understand where the pricing structure of some of this gear comes from....for example, why place the new M's at "only" $129K...why not start them at say $1M and go STEEPLY up from there?? Are the guys at Magico so sure that the $1M speaker isn't that saleable...the $2M speaker....the $20M speaker and so on and so on
If you are appealing to the Chinese or Russian noveau riche...as edoor seems to believe; then why not do the darn thing right and start at $5M and hit towards a $500M mark...what the heck, LOL. ( Might be an interesting speaker at this price... ).I must be missing something here

 

[Bruce B]

Agree with PeterA and Myles!

Hope that there will be a M Series of M5, M3, M1... using the same new technologies soon!

I thought there was an M5 that didn't do quite well?

 

[PeterA]

I thought there was an M5 that didn't do quite well?

Of course, you are right that there already is an M5 (as well as an M6), and some people referred to the Mini 2 as an M1. Perhaps a line derived from this new M Project could be call the R line because it looks like a cross between the Q and S, aside from the carbon fiber side panels. I suppose Magico will keep us guessing.

 

[edorr]

I have said this before and I say again...I simply cannot understand where the pricing structure of some of this gear comes from....for example, why place the new M's at "only" $129K...why not start them at say $1M and go STEEPLY up from there?? Are the guys at Magico so sure that the $1M speaker isn't that saleable...the $2M speaker....the $20M speaker and so on and so on
If you are appealing to the Chinese or Russian noveau riche...as edoor seems to believe; then why not do the darn thing right and start at $5M and hit towards a $500M mark...what the heck, LOL. ( Might be an interesting speaker at this price... ).I must be missing something here

To be fair, my dig at manufacturers developing products for the rich audio snob market was not aimed at this magico product (which, while expensive does not strike me as exorbitantly priced), but products like the new MSB diamond select which appears to have been solely developed for marketing purposes, with the "design" objective of being competitively priced ("competitive" as in competing to be the most expensive DAC available). Magico's very own $40K audio rack (whatever happened to that one) falls into that category too.

 

[Revel Salon 2]

I give respect to Magico for making their own drivers...I won't even consider buying speakers that use off the shelves drivers....can't understand how some companies get away with charging high price for stuff that can be purchased at Madisound. thinking about Marten,Tidal,Kharma,Avalon,Verity,...and a certain company that use 'X' material....you basically pay for the secret sauce crossover and a nice cabinet....;-)

 

[Dre_J]

....you basically pay for the secret sauce crossover and a nice cabinet....;-)

How is that different from "secret sauce crossover and a nice cabinet" and custom augmented (in most cases) driver?

If the non-custom driver combination outperforms the custom driver combination, what difference does it make when the user holds the true value of the architecture in its performance rather than being able to quote having a custom driver that may or may not yield improvement?

Dre

 

[cannata]

How is that different from "secret sauce crossover and a nice cabinet" and custom augmented (in most cases) driver?

If the non-custom driver combination outperforms the custom driver combination, what difference does it make when the user holds the true value of the architecture in its performance rather than being able to quote having a custom driver that may or may not yield improvement?

Dre

This is a bit cynical view of the industry. It takes a lot of knowledge and capacities to develop and manufacture drivers. You assume, that there are real engineers that are doing so. You also assume that the reason they do that is because that what is available, off the shelve, is not good enough. Companies that do develop their own drives go to a lot of trouble explaining why they do that (see Focal, TAD and Magico). In many cases, you can also, objectively see the results (See S5 THD measurements). Whatever people choose to “like” it or not, is a different story, but I like to think that what I like subjectively, can also be proven better objectively.

 

[Dre_J]

This is a bit cynical view of the industry. It takes a lot of knowledge and capacities to develop and manufacture drivers. You assume, that there are real engineers that are doing so. You also assume that the reason they do that is because that what is available, off the shelve, is not good enough. Companies that do develop their own drives go to a lot of trouble explaining why they do that (see Focal, TAD and Magico). In many cases, you can also, objectively see the results (See S5 THD measurements). Whatever people choose to “like” it or not, is a different story, but I like to think that what I like subjectively, can also be proven better objectively.

Woah! Slow your roll buddy...

I asked specific and focused questions. I know it's not the type of questions that create fodder unless someone mis-reads it and tries to take it to somewhere I'm not even going. So in an effort to stick to the questions I asked, I'll refrain from responding to your, as I perceive it, much more broader and mostly blanket response.

BTW: I have three speakers by three different manufactures in-house that all have custom drivers of one type or another so the approach of "This is a bit cynical view of the industry" doesn't fit...

Care to take a second try at answering my request?

Dre

 

[cannata]

Woah! Slow your roll buddy...

I asked specific and focused questions. I know it's not the type of questions that create fodder unless someone mis-reads it and tries to take it to somewhere I'm not even going. So in an effort to stick to the questions I asked, I'll refrain from responding to your, as I perceive it, much more broader and mostly blanket response.

BTW: I have three speakers by three different manufactures in-house that all have custom drivers of one type or another so the approach of "This is a bit cynical view of the industry" doesn't fit...

Care to take a second try at answering my request?

Dre

Ok, I am sorry if I misunderstanding your question. I assumed that if you are asking why a "non-custom driver combination outperforms the custom driver combination" you allure that a custom driver for a one particular situation will not necessarily be better. I like to think that it will. Again, not trying to be argumental here.

 

[KeithR]

Keith in all fairness, would you turn the business down if someone said they'd pay triple for your services provided they were your only client?

So what's wrong with a company making an all out effort, that spares no cost and they'll pay for it. Sorry but that's capitalism and its their money. Same thing if someone buys and an expensive car and gets it customized. Does anyone complain then?

capitalism is hardly the question- but when the designer says that this his best effort and it costs 30k, then what to do? all it becomes is a game of specious, unobtanium materials, bling, etc. marketing to the same asian millionaires. you're in the industry- you know what i'm talking about. the fact that Richard Vandersteen is designing a six figure loudspeaker cracks me up.

there isn't that much R&D in there, Myles, in a cabinet with 5 drivers. the Q5 appears similar but without carbon fiber sides and a diamond covered tweet and is 50k lower--50k!

i think you need to sell your VPI Classic because its only 30k. don't you realize there are 10 other TTS that cost double and are "better"?

 

[Jazzhead]

The limited production of 50 pairs suggests this effort is to gauge customer and reviewer feedback before refreshing the Q Series, likely starting with a new Q5. 50 pairs would also likely be all that was required to recover design and production costs for the project, making the project cost-neutral. I think it will take much longer for any design elements to filter down to the S series, so S owners like me can relax

Cost neutral at this asking price , I am not buying into that viewpoint Bodhi .....

 

[Bodhi]

Cost neutral at this asking price , I am not buying into that viewpoint Bodhi .....

That's ok Jazz, 'cause I wasn't selling...

 

[MylesBAstor]

capitalism is hardly the question- but when the designer says that this his best effort and it costs 30k, then what to do? all it becomes is a game of specious, unobtanium materials, bling, etc. marketing to the same asian millionaires. you're in the industry- you know what i'm talking about. the fact that Richard Vandersteen is designing a six figure loudspeaker cracks me up.

there isn't that much R&D in there, Myles, in a cabinet with 5 drivers. the Q5 appears similar but without carbon fiber sides and a diamond covered tweet and is 50k lower--50k!

i think you need to sell your VPI Classic because its only 30k. don't you realize there are 10 other TTS that cost double and are "better"?

Keith have you ever been to the Magico factory and ween exactly what goes into the design of their speakers? It's very impressive. You should see the research and machining that goes into the drivers alone as well as just the cost of the software for design and testing. Aren't too many companies using that software. Four companies as I'm told.

 

[PeterA]

To see another example of ultra quality, R&D and machining costs, check out the SME factory tour that Michael Fremer just posted on his Analog Planet. It's hardly a guy in the basement kind of operation. Magico is similar, only more recent.

 

[KeithR]

Keith have you ever been to the Magico factory and ween exactly what goes into the design of their speakers? It's very impressive. You should see the research and machining that goes into the drivers alone as well as just the cost of the software for design and testing. Aren't too many companies using that software. Four companies as I'm told.

I don't doubt it's impressive and I like Magico speakers. We probably don't need to debate this much further, but there are many companies that make their own, outstanding drivers and don't charge 129k for special edition loudspeakers that are 60k more than the normal model. his software costs are amortized over every speaker he designs, anyways.

 

[number95]

I don't doubt it's impressive and I like Magico speakers. We probably don't need to debate this much further, but there are many companies that make their own, outstanding drivers and don't charge 129k for special edition loudspeakers that are 60k more than the normal model. his software costs are amortized over every speaker he designs, anyways.

M project should be significantly better than Q5 if you name Q5 as "normal model"

 

[Orb]

I don't understand why you would spend the time, money, and effort to design a loudspeaker and limit production to 50 pairs. You have to assume there will be offspring from this limited edition speaker that will have most of the DNA at a lower price. Otherwise, why do it?

Remember KEF Muon?
That was always I think a 100 pair production run, probably quite a few of the manufacturers have done limited runs.
One way to look at this is it builds a narrative-foundation that the company is perceived as a) solid-established and b) prestige c) sota
Just my take anyway, but yes I do wish there was not these limited runs that then push the price higher, although the benefit of doing this is that it makes it very easy then for them to factor in very specific product line margins for all aspects on this model; setting up manufacturing process-logistics-sales channel and rrp-finally very accurate and defined profit margin to timeline.
And as probably mentioned helps with trickle down/R&D.
Cheers
Orb

 

[Orb]

I give respect to Magico for making their own drivers...I won't even consider buying speakers that use off the shelves drivers....can't understand how some companies get away with charging high price for stuff that can be purchased at Madisound. thinking about Marten,Tidal,Kharma,Avalon,Verity,...and a certain company that use 'X' material....you basically pay for the secret sauce crossover and a nice cabinet....;-)

What I also like about Magico is that they do at times release products that are better then the previous ones, and due to the design-manufacturing requirements can actually mean a cheaper product; the usual trend in hifi (and some other sectors) is if it sounds better make the price higher.
Of course this sort of sucks for owners of the earlier models, but it makes sense the price margin should be real world reflection of what is involved, and why as Magico improves their processes the price has come down from a lot of their earlier models.
There are others that do this as well, but it is pretty clear with Magico due to being a youngish company that continues to evolve their product line.

Cheers
Orb

 

[KeithR]

M project should be significantly better than Q5 if you name Q5 as "normal model"

for the upgrade price of an Audi S5, it better.

 

[BlueFox]

for the upgrade price of an Audi S5, it better.

Yes, but you can listen to music 24/7 for only the cost of electricity, and never need scheduled maintenance.