Hip-Hop/Rap Music?

[JackD201]

Admittedly music I like under the genre hip hop has a more European flavour,

Same here

 

[NorthStar]

Complexity simulates the mind, simplicity stimulates the body. Steady rhythms and simple time signatures do exactly that. The predictability allows the listener to anticipate and synch up, something one simply requires to express emotion through movement. Express movement well enough and it is an art form in itself. Dance. It also works in the opposite direction and can be very relaxing in a primal sense.

The dynamic backbone of hip hop is the breakbeat. These were appropriated in the early days from the breaks of Jazz pieces as well as Funk, Soul and even in rare instances Disco. Set on these were the spoken word elements. As popularity grew and hip hop itself became an influence the breakbeats found their way into many other genres. The US3 song Cantaloop is such an example. Sped up it fed House, sped up further Trance and slowed back down again at half speed Drum and Bass, slowed again chill and electronica. Music IB and myself enjoy depending on occasion.

This borrowing has been going on since the beginning of music. One might even argue that it is the spirit of music itself. Just google popular songs based on classical music and you might be surprised at the breadth of this. "All by Myself" is certainly not lonely on that list. LOL

Conversely when speaking with a good friend who is first violin here and a Juilliard alum, I asked why classical music is NOT popular today. One of the reasons he cited was the lack of predictability, specifically the lack of "hooks" outside of the theme/rondo/Sonata which recur by definition but are not pervasive. Much need be experienced and internalized before the composition as a whole makes sense and remains entertaining throughout. In simple terms no instant gratification for first time listeners. You gotta wait for it. Blues and Jazz like Hip Hop and Electronica which it spawned, became popular for the very reasons many here are trashing the younger art forms.

Socially it is a generational issue. The kids don't think their folks are cool. They realize this typically when they grow out of the music of their youth themselves and the cycle continues. The cool parents appreciate their kid's music because they can identify what was borrowed from theirs. There is a CONNECTION. Yes I am a cool Dad. Music is such a big part of our household. Sometimes after dinner we take turns streaming our recent finds to the dining room boombox.

What I appreciate about hip hop and it's derivatives is that it is a living genre, accessible to all, with spontaneous outbreaks in every city in the world going on right now, as we speak. It is one of the soundtracks of our times, THIS time we are living in, now;
a living breathing reflection of local contemporary culture, circumstances and attitude.

the US is engaged in culture wars more extreme than most other places in the world and some of the posts in this thread have exhibited that hostility.....which is kind of funny to outsiders since white America, with the exception of the new York post punk scene of the 80's, white America has done little of musical significance or merit since the doors. Everything that America has given the world musically has come from the black community, from gospel to blues and boogie through jazz to hip hop to house music has emerged from and chronicled the struggles of the black community
Admittedly music I like under the genre hip hop has a more European flavour, with reflective poetic lyrics and better all round musical cohesion than the style has been described, maligned and dismissed.. But this is down to US local contemporary experience creating the circumstances where what arises is an aggressive style that makes uncompromising demands for a marginalised section of the community be heard, on their terms.

Good reads, thank you. ...And very true regarding the music culture of each country. ...And also the universal "grip".
Some of the best Blues, Jazz musicians/singers are the black people. Most of the best athletes (sports) are also black people.
...Hip-Hop/Rap of course, coming from Jamaica and started in the Bronx. The "Bolt" is from Jamaica too.

* Who invented Classical music? Where the heck he/she was coming from? :b Some make-up aristocracy during the Kings and the Queens of France, UK, Europe? There is also the Queens in New York.

 

[infinitely baffled]

 

[infinitely baffled]

What's apparent from this thread is that hip hop is in the eye of the beholder; it means different things to different people

 

[Simon Moon]

Complexity simulates the mind, simplicity stimulates the body. Steady rhythms and simple time signatures do exactly that. The predictability allows the listener to anticipate and synch up, something one simply requires to express emotion through movement. Express movement well enough and it is an art form in itself. Dance. It also works in the opposite direction and can be very relaxing in a primal sense.

The dynamic backbone of hip hop is the breakbeat. These were appropriated in the early days from the breaks of Jazz pieces as well as Funk, Soul and even in rare instances Disco. Set on these were the spoken word elements. As popularity grew and hip hop itself became an influence the breakbeats found their way into many other genres. The US3 song Cantaloop is such an example. Sped up it fed House, sped up further Trance and slowed back down again at half speed Drum and Bass, slowed again chill and electronica. Music IB and myself enjoy depending on occasion.

This borrowing has been going on since the beginning of music. One might even argue that it is the spirit of music itself. Just google popular songs based on classical music and you might be surprised at the breadth of this. "All by Myself" is certainly not lonely on that list. LOL

Conversely when speaking with a good friend who is first violin here and a Juilliard alum, I asked why classical music is NOT popular today. One of the reasons he cited was the lack of predictability, specifically the lack of "hooks" outside of the theme/rondo/Sonata which recur by definition but are not pervasive. Much need be experienced and internalized before the composition as a whole makes sense and remains entertaining throughout. In simple terms no instant gratification for first time listeners. You gotta wait for it. Blues and Jazz like Hip Hop and Electronica which it spawned, became popular for the very reasons many here are trashing the younger art forms.

Socially it is a generational issue. The kids don't think their folks are cool. They realize this typically when they grow out of the music of their youth themselves and the cycle continues. The cool parents appreciate their kid's music because they can identify what was borrowed from theirs. There is a CONNECTION. Yes I am a cool Dad. Music is such a big part of our household. Sometimes after dinner we take turns streaming our recent finds to the dining room boombox.

That completely explains my disinterest toward rap and hip hop, as well as other popular music forms. I don't like predictability in music.

Complexity also has the ability to stimulate emotions on a much deeper level, and with a larger variety, that simplicity. It is the combination of mental and emotional stimulation that leads me toward the various genres I listen to.

I am a fan of several genres of very technical metal, played by bands with jaw dropping musicianship, and extreme complexity. So, it is not about being an old 'curmudgeon audiophile' that doesn't get the music of the 'youngsters'. When my friends and I go see these bands live, we are almost always the oldest people there by decades. But we have zero problems relating to the younger fans there, since it is all about the music, and has nothing to with the attitude, stage persona, or the dress of the performers. Many of these bands, if you saw photos of them playing live, you'd have no idea they were playing metal.

But I digress...

What I appreciate about hip hop and it's derivatives is that it is a living genre, accessible to all, with spontaneous outbreaks in every city in the world going on right now, as we speak. It is one of the soundtracks of our times, THIS time we are living in, now;
a living breathing reflection of local contemporary culture, circumstances and attitude.

the US is engaged in culture wars more extreme than most other places in the world and some of the posts in this thread have exhibited that hostility.....which is kind of funny to outsiders since white America, with the exception of the new York post punk scene of the 80's, white America has done little of musical significance or merit since the doors. Everything that America has given the world musically has come from the black community, from gospel to blues and boogie through jazz to hip hop to house music has emerged from and chronicled the struggles of the black community
Admittedly music I like under the genre hip hop has a more European flavour, with reflective poetic lyrics and better all round musical cohesion than the style has been described, maligned and dismissed.. But this is down to US local contempory experience creating the circumstances where what arises is an aggressive style that makes uncompromising demands for a marginalised section of the community be heard, on their terms

I can understand why a lot of what you mention here is appealing.

As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts on this thread, as far as being appreciated for its poetry, or the cultural significance, or it's statements on class warfare, its political statements, etc, I have no problem with any of that, and can completely sympathise.

But none of that interests me at all when it comes to music. As I've previously said, the only things I care about in music, are: musicianship, complexity, depth and breadth of emotion conveyed, etc. Those attributes are evident in the various music I listen to, be it classical, jazz, fusion, prog, avant-prog, prog-metal, technical metal, some world music, and even a bit of blue grass.

 

[JackD201]

I respect your position Simon. We like what we like. Please forgive the curmudgeon thing. It was not aimed at you but rather a general observation.

 

[infinitely baffled]

I can only agree with JackD's eloquent post about the animal nature of the experience.
I dont choose to like something, it just grabs me and takes me prisoner as it sets me free

Weirdly hip hop isn't even my favourite spoken word over music genre

That would be this, from my first true love, reggae music

 

[ddk]

Do you listen to hip-hop/rap music?

If no, why do you not listen to it?

Just hate everything about the genres! The huffing & puffing noises rappers make pisses me off not to mention the hellish scratching. Hip hop & trance dj concoctions just bore me and it's also the idea of masses following a mind numbing beat like sheep concerns me.

david

 

[infinitely baffled]

It's not mind numbing, it's like a Vulcan mind merge achieved through dancing together as one
It's the most exhilarating, mentally liberating experience of my life

Simon is repititon ok when iggy's doing it?

 

[NorthStar]

What's apparent from this thread is that hip hop is in the eye of the beholder; it means different things to different people

Like we mentioned before, Portishead is Trip Hop music (I post the same song because the one you posted above doesn't play in my country - most likely a youtube glitch from me):

_____

* Bonus (Smooth Jazz/Electronica - only because you bifurcated from straight Hip-Hop/Rap music): :b

 

[XV-1]

not hip hop/rap - but Abstract Experimental Drone Dub.

The Bug vs Earth - Concrete Jungle. 2LP + 12 inch. Interesting how quite a few Earth fans hate him teaming up with Bug. myself, awesome album of pulsating drone noise and deep wall shaking beats.
MPO pressed - Coloured vinyl looks cool and is even quiet - but the 2nd dark brown marble pressing sounds better than the white marble which has the typical white vinyl sound of being slightly muted in the upper frequencies.

btw - the 12 inch red vinyl with Jk Flesh providing some intense distorted death monsta vocals is insanely good. :thumb:

warning - not for the classical and lite jazz only loving audiophiles