Hip-Hop/Rap Music?

[NorthStar]

Hello NorthStar,

Just to be clear, I’m neither judging anyone (and certainly not you), nor an apologist for the glorification of misogyny, violence nor drug abuse expressed via any art form.

I knew that; you made a good observation, and that's the way I saw it, nothing else.
No one is judging anyone, we are discussing the various types or Rap music worldwide with everything related; good and bad.
And Mark Seaton's above post had also some excellent points. And good humor too; the way some rappers hold their mikes. :b

I’m saying we in the West consume thousands upon thousands of hours of misogyny, violence and drug abuse as entertainment - and only a very small portion of it is in the form of rap and hip-hop. The majority of it? Major studio and indie feature films, cable and on-demand programming, gaming and what passes now as mainstream music, some of which gets nominated for Best Picture Oscars and Grammy Awards. The West’s appetite for commodifying anti-social problematic behaviours we on the one hand find abhorrent, and on the other, find entertaining, is a mainstay of our culture, and to look at one particular sub-culture as the reason for its propagation is short-sighted in the extreme.

Absolutely; our Occidental culture is "embellished" with material and physical body language...gold chains that are so heavy that people wearing them blend easily with our culture, adds with the best saleswomen, the art of dealing...everything; real estate, guns, pipelines, walls, pharmaceutical drugs, insurances, police protection, recreational drugs, washing money machines, skins. Skin trading dated from way way back.
And all of it reflects everywhere; on the Wide Web World, in Hollywood films, in Rap music, on TV, in the news, on CNN, @ FOX, ...everywhere.

The Oriental culture is slightly different in their music videos and films and Internet services and adds and TV programs and news, etc.
The ideal world would be to bring the two cultures together in a common goal; peace. And music is one of the best tool we have. I'm all in with Hip-hop music of the "fun" kind:

And yes, I agree with Frantz here too. Some of the most civilised societies with the greatest wealth and reach of empire practiced horrific forms of public violence, not limited to the Incas (child sacrifice), Egyptians (retainer sacrifices, impalement), Romans (gladiatorial battles, criminals fed to lions, public crucifixions), and Celts (wicker man). Many atrocities have been carried out in the name of entertainment, for as long as the world has existed.

But Rap music doesn't go back that far. And I think that it was invented in the Occident, America? It's a specific way of expression, and it spreaded across.

My best to you, NorthStar.

853guy

P.S. I spent two years working with youth and young offenders. None of them committed crimes because of the influence of hip-hop or rap culture. Many of them committed crimes and used hip-hop or rap culture as justification for their actions, obviating their personal and moral responsibility, preferring to identify with a culturally collective movement than the consequences of their individual actions.

853guy, best the same to you; your posts are always the most polite and well articulated in intelligent manner that makes some of the best discussions here.

* It's a big issue in the world in how we all get here, and where we're going to, particularly. It starts with our leaders and our education systems and by giving the opportunity to all in living in a peaceful world. ...With the filmmakers and the artist musicians and singers. ...The culture of Hip-Hop music...all that jazz.
...An equal chance for everyone to enjoy the white beaches and the sun.

I don't listen to Rap/Hip-Hop music anymore because my mood is very different. And so far we have been talking about some pros and cons.
Just for fun, listen to Rap music but with the vocals removed. It's almost like instrumental Jazz but with different tones and pitches. And that difference is what makes it what it is and what people listen to or not.

 

[NorthStar]

• http://djkoolherc.com/

Clive Campbell, better known by his stage name DJ Kool Herc, is a Jamaican-American DJ who is credited with originating hip hop music in the early 1970s in The Bronx, New York City. Wikipedia
- Born: April 16, 1955 (age 62), Kingston, Jamaica
- Full name: Clive Campbell
- Genre: Hip hop music
_____

Bonus (indirectly related):

 

[Simon Moon]

I do not listen to rap or hip hop.

There is nothing about these genres that interests me at all.

All the music I like has several things in common, among which are: high level of musicianship, ability to convey a broad variety of emotional content, complexity. I listen to 20th century and contemporary classical, progressive music, jazz and jazz-fusion.

When I listen to rap or hip hop, I hear no redeeming musical qualities. An argument can be made, that rap is more of a spoken word art form, and can be judged on that level. But since I am not a fan of spoken word art forms, I do not appreciate it on that level either.

As far as the more political forms of rap, I can definitely appreciate and sympathise with the messages being conveyed. But still not like it from a musical standpoint.

This is about as close to rap as I get.

 

[NorthStar]

I got those too:

I'm thru though; that was another life's period. I lost my virginity.

Yes, that was then, now is different...I've changed, I'm an adult now.

I got that album too; Canadian power pop group, Edmonton, Alberta.

:b

 

[JackD201]

Jack, when we visited you you played something which I think you said was "deep house," but which I thought was relatively relaxed electronica or maybe chill techno of some kind. Do you remember? What was that that you played for us?

I normally do not like house of any kind, but I sort of liked that track you played for us.

I started you off with Deep House, went with some light Tech House, segued to some prog then because Tinka is dutch went with some mid BPM Trance where IMO the Netherlands producers rule. We went for dinner after that.

The thing is with music these days is that there's this never ending explosion of sub-genres. There are a number of Dance music sub-genres in dance music I do not generally listen to like Industrial, Techno, Goa Trance, Hardstyle, 2-Step Garage or Drum and Bass BUT as with rap with its own multitude of sub-genres there are always nuggets to be found. The hard part is wading through the seemingly endless sea of junk to find them. I for one love Trip Hop as Infinitely Baffled does. I love Acid Jazz. It's Acid Jazz that got me to go back in time to explore Hard Bop.

Audiophile music is easy. It's been vetted and curated. Unfortunately while easy it can also be very limiting and eventually boring. Continuingly exploring has also helped me bond with my daughter who's about to go off to college. Dad you're listening to Drake? LOL hey kid, good music is good music. Good music knows no age

Here's an example of the Hip Hop that often goes unnoticed or overshadowed by Gangsta. What's not to love?

 

[NorthStar]

Acid Jazz would be another interesting ? exploration...

I can still listen to them occasionally; I'm still young.
We need another thread for that; if someone is into Acid Jazz, like Jack said he is, I would love to share some with.
Hit it Jack! :b Start that thread Dear Jack (DJ)

 

[edorr]

M&M is a genius? I thought it was a delicious candy that,
"melts in your mouth not in your hand."
As the self proclaimed music omnivore I do listen to Rap Hip Hop.
Most have not heard the hardcore versions, because they would not qualify for radio airtime.
It was born out of lack of musical training and the violence associated with the the drug wars.
My exposure has been mostly while standing on the corner in some very rough "hoods."
It us the expression if some forgotten people.

Eminem is a lyrical genius - urban poet.

 

[NorthStar]

This is a good movie:

 

[XV-1]

Some classic Rap. from the ghettos to world power.

Lets see how many closed minded audiophiles hate this as well.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I started you off with Deep House, went with some light Tech House, segued to some prog then because Tinka is dutch went with some mid BPM Trance where IMO the Netherlands producers rule. We went for dinner after that.

. . .

Thank you, Jack!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Some classic Rap. from the ghettos to world power.

Lets see how many closed minded audiophiles hate this as well.

Why does not caring for your personal taste in music make an audiophile "close-minded"?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Some classic Rap. from the ghettos to world power.

Lets see how many closed minded audiophiles hate this as well.

Why does not caring for your personal taste in music make an audiophile "close-minded"?

I think 'not getting' or 'not relating' to a musical genre does not = hate. using that word is wrong and divides us.

some music is an acquired taste, and maybe we are not motivated looking from the outside in to work at 'getting' it. we don't see the merits. and we have no obligation or responsibility to try and 'like' some form of art....even if it is 'hip' for a boomer to like rap.

'hate' is a bad word in this context....as it implies some sort of cultural bias that may have nothing at all to do with our view.

and i'm in the camp that says being 'hip' is overrated.

 

[Ron Resnick]

+1!

very well-stated!

 

[Simon Moon]

I think 'not getting' or 'not relating' to a musical genre does not = hate. using that word is wrong and divides us.

Nor does it make us closed minded.

some music is an acquired taste, and maybe we are not motivated looking from the outside in to work at 'getting' it. we don't see the merits. and we have no obligation or responsibility to try and 'like' some form of art....even if it is 'hip' for a boomer to like rap.

Well said.

In fact, I would contend, that it requires a more open mind to enjoy music that is well outside of the various 'pop' genres, rap and hip hop included.

 

[NorthStar]

WBF just crashed for me. For roughly five minutes.
_____

It's very simple; we like some music because it moves us in satisfaction. We don't go any further than that, but we can if we want to.
{I'm talking music genre, here, which is a free personal choice; and not "audiophile" supreme quality sound.}
And that simplicity is the same with music that we like less, even the music that "irritates" us deep down in our brain's back.

Love and hate are two words in the English vocabulary/dictionary. They can remove "hate" and replace it by another word, a more gentle one.
I don't know, there are clubs/tribes with their own custom language/dialect.
I've read quite a bit since this thread was started, and it's been good, educational.

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_hip_hop

 

[XV-1]

I LOVE MUSIC.

This is garbage and a waste of petroleum resources.

The fact that he got someone to make a good quality recording, although it baffles me how you can tell given the program material, still does not make it good music.

Why does not caring for your personal taste in music make an audiophile "close-minded"?

I could care less, but its not my personal taste in music - I like some rap and i like some hip hop. Its the broad dismissal of entire genres based on what? an informed opinion?

I think 'not getting' or 'not relating' to a musical genre does not = hate. using that word is wrong and divides us.

some music is an acquired taste, and maybe we are not motivated looking from the outside in to work at 'getting' it. we don't see the merits. and we have no obligation or responsibility to try and 'like' some form of art....even if it is 'hip' for a boomer to like rap.

'hate' is a bad word in this context....as it implies some sort of cultural bias that may have nothing at all to do with our view.

and i'm in the camp that says being 'hip' is overrated.

Mike. I used the H word tongue in cheek, but if you read some of the comments on this thread, it certainly may read that way. top of page as an example.

All music is to be enjoyed if it floats your boat - but certainly not broadly dismissed when it's clear that little time or effort has been taken to listen.

It must have been hell for those young rock n rollers in the 50's with the similar closed minded masses attacking Elvis, Chuck, Bill and co as devils music. Sound familiar?


I for one try not to be like my grand parents and dismiss any type of music due to my ignorance.

cheers

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike. I used the H word tongue in cheek, but if you read some of the comments on this thread, it certainly may read that way. top of page as an example.

All music is to be enjoyed if it floats your boat - but certainly not broadly dismissed when it's clear that little time or effort has been taken to listen.

It must have been hell for those young rock n rollers in the 50's with the similar closed minded masses attacking Elvis, Chuck, Bill and co as devils music. Sound familiar?

I for one try not to be like my grand parents and dismiss any type of music due to my ignorance.

cheers

I don't go out of my way to comment on any genre of music I don't care for. when asked what types of music I like I will take the exclusionary approach, and say 'not into commercial country music or rap/hip-hop'. and then I add, 'which only means I've not found any of that type that has been enjoyable for me......yet'. I might add 'that Hawaiian Music is ok but all sounds like it was recorded on the same day'.

and my 'sounds like it was all recorded on the same day' is really my view from the outside in on genre's which do not appeal to me. they appear to be all the same sort of sound and so it's just noise to me. maybe at some point i'll 'get' what is special about those types of music.

throwing around 'closed minded' is just not a fair way to go. there was a time in my life when I was not into Jazz or Classical, but I was never closed minded to it. just not connected.....yet.

sure; likely some might actually be intentionally closed minded to rap/hip-hop but it's not fair to generalize.

 

[Simon Moon]

throwing around 'closed minded' is just not a fair way to go. there was a time in my life when I was not into Jazz or Classical, but I was never closed minded to it. just not connected.....yet.

I post on classical music forum (talkclassical.com), jazz forums (allaboutjazz.com and fuze-zone.com) and progrock forums (progressiveears.com and progarchives.com), and on all these forums, there some people that like rap and hip hop.

Invariably, when they ask if there any other fans of rap and hip hop on the particular forum, they always claim we are closed minded when we say no. There are no other forms of music that I will be accused of being closed minded about, other than rap and hip hop.

I also don't like blues, 3 chord rock, country, pop, but I do not get called closed minded about those.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I post on classical music forum (talkclassical.com), jazz forums (allaboutjazz.com and fuze-zone.com) and progrock forums (progressiveears.com and progarchives.com), and on all these forums, there some people that like rap and hip hop.

Invariably, when they ask if there any other fans of rap and hip hop on the particular forum, they always claim we are closed minded when we say no. There are no other forms of music that I will be accused of being closed minded about, other than rap and hip hop.

I also don't like blues, 3 chord rock, country, pop, but I do not get called closed minded about those.

maybe a sign of the times. we get that approach from media all day long and it's hard to overcome the gravity of that push.

 

[infinitely baffled]

I do not listen to rap or hip hop.

There is nothing about these genres that interests me at all.

All the music I like has several things in common, among which are: high level of musicianship, ability to convey a broad variety of emotional content, complexity. I listen to 20th century and contemporary classical, progressive music, jazz and jazz-fusion.

When I listen to rap or hip hop, I hear no redeeming musical qualities. An argument can be made, that rap is more of a spoken word art form, and can be judged on that level. But since I am not a fan of spoken word art forms, I do not appreciate it on that level either.

As far as the more political forms of rap, I can definitely appreciate and sympathise with the messages being conveyed. But still not like it from a musical standpoint.

Can I ask what you think of this?
I believe it demonstrates most of the qualities you look for in music