Hip-Hop/Rap Music?

[FrantzM]

I realized something because of this thread. When I was younger I was listening to Rap music without any direction, just for the beat/rhythm, without fully listening to the lyrics, just some repetitive lines. It wasn't heavy as some of the Rap today, but Ice-T was gangsta Rap nonetheless, and few others too. There is some deep frustration and rebellion and gangs/drugs/sex exploitation and violence in many Rap music genres. A quarter century later I hate violence promoted through Rap/Hip-Hop music...many of them.
If I would take the time to analyse all the lyrics I would be more firm on what is inline or not with my own lifestyle.

I mentioned this before: Rap uses vocals a lot, the lyrics are the predominant aspect of Hip-Hop music. The music itself is simple, repetitive, bass heavy, disco heavy, boomy, electrocuting.
The dance and gestures from many rappers are also a big part of accompanying the rebellious vocals...against a conformed society, against the corruption in the police force, against the "power". Guns, machine-guns, white powder, cash money bills, gold chains and rings, naked girls, sexual suggestive (sexploitation) images, pimping, killing, etc. are all showing in both videos and lyrics. This ain't calypso music, this ain't peaceful/fun dancing music; it's violent and degrading music, a cry of despair by promoting violence against violence. It can only lead to more violence. Drugs and guns in all parts of our society, from the rappers to the dictators and the corrupted forces of order; is a disease, and that disease is a deadly cancer to our kids. It spreads to them instead of freeing them.

It doesn't mean that because we like some type of Rap music we are part of the dark side. No, there is some good Rap music, with encouraging lyrics for the kids and adults too.

I don't know how to make the world a better peaceful world. What I do know is that Classical music doesn't use lyrics, gestures, ...
And I thought that it was Blues that used to be called the Devil music? Blues is broken hearts music.
Jazz, is many things, but intellectual music is an illusion. Classical is no illusion, to me.

I would never say to anyone: "It would be wise..." because it infers that I am.

* I was surprised to learn that I have more Rap/Hip-Hop music in my fair and diversified ? library than I originally thought.
The reason because I just don't listen to it anymore, for a good quarter century; it does nothing to me, none nowhere near Classical, Jazz, Blues, International music.
This is music passion, discovery of my inner soul, music evolution in a real world of harmony and smooth vibrations, down to my most fragile bones.
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I got this one too:
<snip>

I just don't listen to that stuff anymore; that was a lost portion of my life. This is the Rap thread; you ain't see nothing...there is Hard Heavy Ultra Metal music.
In another thread perhaps... I don't ban people because of their brief musical orientation of past life, because of their sexualilty, because of their affiliation with some type of groups in the past. The ones who ban people are the ones who have issues with themselves, who think they are better than the rest. But I condemn


Pick the

ne you like best; without or with moving pictures (live):

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? Spinning ? right now:
<snip> [/QUOTE]


That there is Violence is some rap music is not debatable. Too much sex and exploitation too IMO but all kind of music have their share of that ... as for Violence ... Beethoven's "Wellington's Victory" piece is not about Peace I would say ... as for gestures.. I am yet to see an Opera without Lyrics and gestures or a conductor conducting standing with no gestures... Perhaps Choral Music is not "Classical " in your World view or Mahler Lieders have no Lyrics? Or Bach Oratorios ?

That you don't like Rap is fine and acceptable .... I can't debate your tastes and preferences.. .... but your rationale is flawed.

 

[NorthStar]

My dear Frantz, I am who I am, and I say what I feel in & out. I feel good about it because it's from an honest mind.
It's ok that you find my way of thinking flawed. It's a music evolution, a personal vibration. We all have our own musical journey.
This is my own choice to take the time and share a part of it right here; it helps me in discovering more and read other's own journeys.
It's a celebration, there is nothing more positive than share and respect all various musical paths that brought us here.

The interaction is peaceful, the discussion is educational, advancing, fruitful.

And Classical music, in vast general, is not a music of violence. Rap music, in general, is the opposite of Classical music; unsophisticated, uncivilised, vulgar, uneducated, unrefined.
It's the music, the content, the lyrics, the drive, the hand down the crotch, the baton in the air, the hands of the maestro, the control, the floppy pants, the walking, the overall looks and sounds that I am referring to, and NOT the who is expressing his sincere opinion no matter how he/she gets there. I respect the people who are feeling oppressed, I respect the opera singers.

In one of my last posts I mentioned PSY with nine videos; that's happy dancing Hip-Hop music ; that guy is using a genre to positive results.
That's the right attitude of a great rapper, the peaceful/fun/humor/celebrating life/dancing side of it.

We can have a couple more threads; one exploring Classical music, from the voluptuous to the tumultuous, and same with Hard Core Heavy Metal, but less voluptuous.
And there is Jazz too; from Jazz fusion, to psychedelic/acid Jazz, to traditional heroin Jazz, to Big Band Jazz Orchestra, to sensuous lounge Jazz, passing by electronic Jazz and ending up to abstract Jazz with elaborate bars and tempo.

Here we're in Rap/Hip-Hop territory, from the extreme violent and disgraceful to the happy and dance rhythm.
There is a reason for everything, and nothing will ever be gained from violence, nothing. Discipline is what will always win, like Classical music...Jazz, Blues, International Happy/Dancing music.

That's the way I think, I see, I feel. I might be totally wrong, but I just don't think I am. I welcome you to discipline me in the art of music evolution.
I'm way open in the social culture of life. But know this; I would much rather you comment on my post (words in the context I write them) than on me personally.
When you say my rationale is flawed; you have no idea, zero. I said I hate "violent" Rap, but I also posted "peaceful" Rap. You cannot separate me from both.
I bet we are much closer than we think. The hardest part is to take nothing personal, to say nothing personal and to be true in the faith for peace and justice.

Music is the best tool we have to fight all the crap in this world. But using it properly is the art for the mastering artists.
So let's cut the crap with all the bad Rap, and get on with the program...ballet jazz. :b

 

[GaryProtein]

Hip Hop and Rap music is awesome. But, just like Diana Krall in Jazz, don't judge all the genre from some crappy examples.

If you don't like this track, you don't like music However some may call Massive attack Trip Hop. Buy the album on vinyl and the production is better than any audiophile recording.

I LOVE MUSIC.

This is garbage and a waste of petroleum resources.

The fact that he got someone to make a good quality recording, although it baffles me how you can tell given the program material, still does not make it good music.

 

[XV-1]

I LOVE MUSIC.

This is garbage and a waste of petroleum resources.

The fact that he got someone to make a good quality recording, although it baffles me how you can tell given the program material, still does not make it good music.

LOL. Ok Grandpa

Gary, Its a pity your mind is closed, as Massive Attack would sound incredible with your awesome Infinity speakers.

 

[NorthStar]

I respect Gary's opinion, taste and distaste in music. I like some Massive Attack myself, and Portishead (special +), and more ... Björk, Tricky, Radiohead, ...
And/but it's Trip hop music (not Hip-Hop/Rap): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trip_hop

It's just not in the same class as Classical music, that's all.

 

[edorr]

Rap generally sucks, but Eminem is a genius. Also, some good acid-jazz (guru) and trip hop out there....

 

[NorthStar]

Rap generally sucks, but Eminem is a genius. Also, some good acid-jazz (guru) and trip hop out there....

• https://www.quora.com/What-makes-Eminems-rapping-so-genius
• https://genius.com/discussions/1612-Eminem-overrated-or-underrated
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* Acid Jazz would also be another interesting thread; I got few of those, but I keep them mostly dusty.
Would you say that Miles Davis has couple acid jazz albums?

 

[Bruce B]

You mean no one has mentioned the ICP ???

 

[Gregadd]

M&M is a genius? I thought it was a delicious candy that,
"melts in your mouth not in your hand."
As the self proclaimed music omnivore I do listen to Rap Hip Hop.
Most have not heard the hardcore versions, because they would not qualify for radio airtime.
It was born out of lack of musical training and the violence associated with the the drug wars.
My exposure has been mostly while standing on the corner in some very rough "hoods."
It us the expression if some forgotten people.

 

[GaryProtein]

LOL. Ok Grandpa

Gary, Its a pity your mind is closed, as Massive Attack would sound incredible with your awesome Infinity speakers.

There is a lot more to music than how it sounds on a good system.

 

[Mark Seaton]

This topic and the range of contributors has certainly made for an entertaining read. I do think we're overlooking some very significant and obvious factors as it relates to hi-fi enthusiasts:

1. While there are always exceptions, Rap/Hip-Hop trends toward and largely targets a younger, disillusioned, demographic that in some way feels oppressed/overlooked. Obviously that's a small % of this forum's participants, so the appeal will be more limited to begin with.
2. Rappers have tend to have the WORST microphone technique. I was looking for some fun anti-rapper microphone creations but couldn't find the pictures. Maybe Bruce or Lloyd can help along this line:

3. Production priorities for a majority of Rap/Hip-Hop does not align with hi-fi playback making for a smaller selection of well recorded examples.
4. Demo worthy material is largely made up of strong bass tracks and fun samples of music from other genres of music we might already use for demo.

While not what I've been playing more recently, I've enjoyed plenty of music from the genre, both in earlier youth and recent years (I'm now 40). Personally it falls more in the fun listening category and less in a critical category. Much like modern popular music, you occasionally find some gems, but there's a lot of terrible recordings that don't hold any interest a high resolution system, and then get set aside for party playlists. I'd say I have more timeline, experience, and memory association to the genre than I do appreciation for hi-fi playback.

I do think it's important to always remember that most enthusiasts will come to closely know and pick apart what ever flavor of music currently their interest or attention. A better recording will sound worlds better on a quality system, and we're all here to better connect with music through the systems we assemble. We could make endless metaphors to other hobby and sport pursuits.

 

[cpvniii]

Music has a melody by definition.

 

[NorthStar]

There is a lot more to music than how it sounds on a good system.

Absolutely. Music is first a communion with the inner soul. Some ? achieves that goal with some of us in a deeper satisfying level; it's a sacred temple of individuality in a universal world of diversity.

I didn't know that @ WBF we had a very fair portion of Rap/Hip-Hop music lovers; I admit that I am surprised by the percentage of the votes so far...40/60
But, PSY helps too. :b

You know, music is a lifestyle; I remember the days of disco music, country & western, Pink Floyd, The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, John Coltrane.
Kids go to Punk music concerts to move, to push, to kick, to jump, to be moved and transported by many sets of hands (from stage jumping horizontally), to shake bones and heads, to let hairstyle loose, to revolt against everything the established and conformed rules, to be free from people telling them to be like this and like that, telling them what to do and how to behave, from people giving orders. Punk music is not alone, Rap (Hip-Hop), Heavy Metal, Heavy Rock, ... it's a lifestyle.
Pink Floyd, Tangerine Dream, Jean Michel Jarre, Mike Oldfield, ...that's another lifestyle, different, more for the brain than the body, with smoother moves.

Jazz, Blues, Classical, Dance (Cuba, Argentina, Brazil, Africa, ...); all different lifestyles.

I'm glad that Trip hop music came to the scene; it's good to expand on Hip-Hop, and today they even use some Rap influences in Soul and Pop and Rock music.
It's as vast as the number of bands playing different tunes or similar out there. The best way to define a music genre (RAP), I think, is to take one band @ a time, one song @ a time, read all the lyrics and the overall groove that fits the listeners. We certainly have the choice to like and dislike some music more than this.
And I take that choice to express my voice in denouncing violent lyrics and gestures, guns/blood/killing/drugs/sexploitation. It's the same with violent video games.
Number one; the kids they follow that path and they become hackers, killers, gangsters, pimps, drug addicts, ...brief they lose their brain and they hurt others and themselves.
Number two; it has no peaceful harmonious rhythms, it rhymes with crimes.
Number three; it stresses my soul's foundations, the backbones of my spiritual peace to live in harmony with the butterflies and squirrels.

Am I irrational?

 

[853guy]

I'm glad that Trip hop music came to the scene; it's good to expand on Hip-Hop, and today they even use some Rap influences in Soul and Pop and Rock music.
It's as vast as the number of bands playing different tunes or similar out there. The best way to define a music genre (RAP), I think, is to take one band @ a time, one song @ a time, read all the lyrics and the overall groove that fits the listeners. We certainly have the choice to like and dislike some music more than this.
And I take that choice to express my voice in denouncing violent lyrics and gestures, guns/blood/killing/drugs/sexploitation. It's the same with violent video games.
Number one; the kids they follow that path and they become hackers, killers, gangsters, pimps, drug addicts, ...brief they lose their brain and they hurt others and themselves.
Number two; it has no peaceful harmonious rhythms, it rhymes with crimes.
Number three; it stresses my soul's foundations, the backbones of my spiritual peace to live in harmony with the butterflies and squirrels.

Am I irrational?

And do you do the same for movies and television shows? Or will your thread "Did you watch a film last night (on Blu or DVD), and what was it?" reveal that in fact, as I allude to in my previous post, that we prefer our depictions of sexual content, violence and/or consumption of drugs to be more aligned to our own cultural sensibilities in the form of Hollywood and indie films?

If so, will you then choose to justify your preferences for the depictions of sexual content, violence and/or consumption of drugs in Hollywood/indie movies by restating your quote in the third post of that thread and say:

Ron, it's only a movie! ENTERTAINMENT man!

Just wondering.

Be well, NorthStar,

853guy

 

[NorthStar]

I live in the now and speak in the now. I'm letting go, slowly of the past, and I follow a new direction. I am changing.

You are absolutely right; with the violence in films. ...John Wick and gang. Rap music for many, and Mark Seaton above mentioned it, is for fun.
Games are for fun; be it sports or wars.

It's true that it is an interesting subject, very. It makes me review some of my perceptions. It transcends in all aspects of life, between war and peace, violence and non-violence. ...And the culture of each society from different countries. It's very important.

Yes, I've watched violent movies, violent documentaries. I'm not alone; just the other day I was reminded by an older gentleman after he saw bodies cut in half on some youtube videos. Before the Internet we didn't have such real life violence exposure of the world.
We had newspapers, TV news, radio. Today we have more violence than we bargain for...Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, films and music and games.

Good point you just mentioned; some very deranged kids who committed terrible acts of violence were inspired by violent films and games.
We live in an unfair world. How can I help a little to make it more fair? I'm working on it.

* Which movie ? was I referring to when I said that to Ron?

EDIT:

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

You can always start with hip hop mixed with 70's Bee Gee's then work your way to the harder stuff.

 

[NorthStar]

Two very good links (there are so many more, with many views):

• https://web.stanford.edu/class/e297c/poverty_prejudice/mediarace/socialsignificance.htm
• https://web.stanford.edu/class/e297c/poverty_prejudice/mediarace/negative.htm

 

[FrantzM]

I live in the now and speak in the now. I'm letting go, slowly of the past, and I follow a new direction. I am changing.

You are absolutely right; with the violence in films. ...John Wick and gang. Rap music for many, and Mark Seaton above mentioned it, is for fun.
Games are for fun; be it sports or wars.

It's true that it is an interesting subject, very. It makes me review some of my perceptions. It transcends in all aspects of life, between war and peace, violence and non-violence. ...And the culture of each society from different countries. It's very important.

Yes, I've watched violent movies, violent documentaries. I'm not alone; just the other day I was reminded by an older gentleman after he saw bodies cut in half on some youtube videos. Before the Internet we didn't have such real life violence exposure of the world.
We had newspapers, TV news, radio. Today we have more violence than we bargain for...Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, films and music and games.

Good point you just mentioned; some very deranged kids who committed terrible acts of violence were inspired by violent films and games.
We live in an unfair world. How can I help a little to make it more fair? I'm working on it.

* Which movie was I referring to when I said that to Ron?

Public execution, beheading, hanging and stoning predate the Internet...

 

[853guy]

I live in the now and speak in the now. I'm letting go, slowly of the past, and I follow a new direction. I am changing.

You are absolutely right; with the violence in films. ...John Wick and gang. Rap music for many, and Mark Seaton above mentioned it, is for fun.
Games are for fun; be it sports or wars.

It's true that it is an interesting subject, very. It makes me review some of my perceptions. It transcends in all aspects of life, between war and peace, violence and non-violence. ...And the culture of each society from different countries. It's very important.

Yes, I've watched violent movies, violent documentaries. I'm not alone; just the other day I was reminded by an older gentleman after he saw bodies cut in half on some youtube videos. Before the Internet we didn't have such real life violence exposure of the world.
We had newspapers, TV news, radio. Today we have more violence than we bargain for...Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, films and music and games.

Good point you just mentioned; some very deranged kids who committed terrible acts of violence were inspired by violent films and games.
We live in an unfair world. How can I help a little to make it more fair? I'm working on it.

* Which movie was I referring to when I said that to Ron?

Hello NorthStar,

Just to be clear, I’m neither judging anyone (and certainly not you), nor an apologist for the glorification of misogyny, violence nor drug abuse expressed via any art form.

I’m saying we in the West consume thousands upon thousands of hours of misogyny, violence and drug abuse as entertainment - and only a very small portion of it is in the form of rap and hip-hop. The majority of it? Major studio and indie feature films, cable and on-demand programming, gaming and what passes now as mainstream music, some of which gets nominated for Best Picture Oscars and Grammy Awards. The West’s appetite for commodifying anti-social problematic behaviours we on the one hand find abhorrent, and on the other, find entertaining, is a mainstay of our culture, and to look at one particular sub-culture as the reason for its propagation is short-sighted in the extreme.

And yes, I agree with Frantz here too. Some of the most civilised societies with the greatest wealth and reach of empire practiced horrific forms of public violence, not limited to the Incas (child sacrifice), Egyptians (retainer sacrifices, impalement), Romans (gladiatorial battles, criminals fed to lions, public crucifixions), and Celts (wicker man). Many atrocities have been carried out in the name of entertainment, for as long as the world has existed.

My best to you, NorthStar.

853guy

P.S. I spent two years working with youth and young offenders. None of them committed crimes because of the influence of hip-hop or rap culture. Many of them committed crimes and used hip-hop or rap culture as justification for their actions, obviating their personal and moral responsibility, preferring to identify with a culturally collective movement than the consequences of their individual actions.

 

[NorthStar]

I don't see that in Rap music videos Frantz.
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The two links I previously posted; very very good reads.