How do you make audio "cool" to bring in new blood?

[fas42]

If you look at younger generations in today's society you'll note that the common thread is multi-tasking. The thought of sitting and doing one thing, especially one thing as passive as listening to music, is completely foreign. Even I'm not immune to that as right now, I'm watching TV, surfing Audiogon, replying to emails, and writing this post.

Good point. I also like the system working well enough so that I can do other things, I don't need to concentrate. However, if the system is NOT working well enough then you can't have the system working at a realistic levels and relax in other activities -- there is a quality to the sound which is irritating. This would tend to imply that a correctly functioning setup is even more essential these days, unless you want the volume to be always at wallpaper music level ...

Frank

 

[rsbeck]

To grow, the audio industry needs new blood. Anyone have any thoughts on how to make the industry cool?

If Cable Elevators, magic dots, green markers and Shakti Stones didn't do it, what hope do we have?

 

[Robh3606]

Do something about the source material. The loudness wars are taking the life out of the music and making what you play it back on unimportant.

Rob

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

More people than ever enjoy more music than ever. They do so on smartphones, laptops and iPods while they go about their daily lives. They have no need of being forced to sit down and listen to their music in a specific place, and the idea of being so compelled by that sound as to put aside the minutiae of those daily lives and listen exclusively to music is absurd to them.

All of which means there's no magic bullet, no keenly priced wonder-system that will transform people into audio enthusiasts. Instead, audio needs to adapt to fit the requirements of modern users, instead of getting modern users to bend to the idiosyncrasies of audio. Then, and only then, can audio be cool again.

Until that time, there's no point seeking out associations with bigger consumer electronics brands, expensive celebrity endorsements and product placement, ICE tie-ins or any other bright marketing idea. Audio has to retask itself and be dragged fully into the 21st Century before such things have any chance of real success.

You're probably right, Alan. And in that case, the audiophile engineers of today should be designing better codecs and earbuds. We're not so far off, now. An iPod Touch, some lossless files and a great pair of ear canal phones rival many audiophile systems in all but imaging. Haven't got around to those room treatments? That kid grooving next to you on the train might have better resolution in his pocket than you have in your high end.

Tim

 

[JackD201]

I must need some seriously better IEMs then Tim. My experience is far from what you say. Add a proper headphone amp and I might agree. I'm an apple guy but the built in amps on touches and classics, in a word, suck.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I must need some seriously better IEMs then Tim. My experience is far from what you say. Add a proper headphone amp and I might agree. I'm an apple guy but the built in amps on touches and classics, in a word, suck.

You probably have the wrong headphones, Jack. Look up the stats on a Touch from anything in the last couple of generations. Suck is not a word one would use to describe what's coming out of them. And there are many ear canal phones that don't need, or even benefit from an amp, and a few of them are very good.

Tim

 

[flez007]

I also think that multi-channel/video and high-speed/rez downloads will lead the road, consumers are way used to those formats and might ask for better quality someday in the near future...

 

[rsbeck]

I think audio is already cool.

Popular is a different Rubic's Cube.

I tell my kids, "don't try to be popular, just be yourself and see who is drawn to you."

I would tell audio the same thing.

Trying to be cool is the antithesis of cool.

 

[audioguy]

I tell my kids, "don't try to be popular, just be yourself and see who is drawn to you."


Trying to be cool is the antithesis of cool.

I like those. Consider them stolen. (Is that cool!!)

 

[JackD201]

You probably have the wrong headphones, Jack. Look up the stats on a Touch from anything in the last couple of generations. Suck is not a word one would use to describe what's coming out of them. And there are many ear canal phones that don't need, or even benefit from an amp, and a few of them are very good.

Tim

Granted I've got only mid-level Shures and Etymotics which I only really use when traveling, my beef with my current generation touch is I feel they skimped on output to prolong battery life. The multi-driver higher models need even more power so I don't see how that solves anything. Again I'm an Apple diehard but to me, the built in amps really suck. Stats don't change that because well, there are a lot of portable external amps with better stats.

 

[rsbeck]

I like those. Consider them stolen. (Is that cool!!)

You know what Picasso said?

"Good artists borrow, great artists steal."

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Granted I've got only mid-level Shures and Etymotics which I only really use when traveling, my beef with my current generation touch is I feel they skimped on output to prolong battery life. The multi-driver higher models need even more power so I don't see how that solves anything. Again I'm an Apple diehard but to me, the built in amps really suck. Stats don't change that because well, there are a lot of portable external amps with better stats.

The issue isn't mid-level vs high-level, it's efficiency. There is no doubt that the output stage is not sufficient for a more difficult load. There's also no doubt that there are amps with better specs. I have a Headroom portable myself. It can make a significant difference with inefficient phones. An easy load? It one of those "I think I hear" things.

Tim

 

[FrantzM]

Granted I've got only mid-level Shures and Etymotics which I only really use when traveling, my beef with my current generation touch is I feel they skimped on output to prolong battery life. The multi-driver higher models need even more power so I don't see how that solves anything. Again I'm an Apple diehard but to me, the built in amps really suck. Stats don't change that because well, there are a lot of portable external amps with better stats.

I agree with the lack of power of the iPod Touch ... There exist however better than decent IEMs with good sensitivity .. One of them is the one recomended by Earl Geddes in this forum the Altec Lansing 336 available at Amazon for less than $50 ... It will end up costing a little more because the tips that come with it are simply useless .. They don't fit most ears ...my experience with them almost had me returning the product and wondering what the heck Geddes ws talking about !! They must really fit the ear canal to sound right ... Once you use better tips such as the Comply TX-400 (about $20 also at amazon) they become very, very, very good earphones and their high sensitivity (115 db/mw) make them easily driven by the internal iPod Touch' amps with surprising musicality ... No need for an outboard amp which after use the amps output anyway ... The combination is beyond surprsing especially with lossless ... Frankly a piece of high End sound at down to earth price.

The amp in the iPod Touch don't drive the Denon 5000 well resulting in an hi-fi reproduction ..good but nothing to write home about ... I don't have much experience with other IEM or headphones with the iPod Touch but I suspect that its internal amps are not happy with low or even medium sensitivity ear or head phones ... Was that OT? Sorry

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Was that OT? Sorry

Not at all. One of the "coolest" things the high-end could do to address the way millions of people listen today is to develop excellent IEMs with high enough sensitivity to run well straight out of iPods, iPads, laptops, phones, etc. If you have to plug in a portable amp, the point is missed and the "cool" is diminished.

Tim

 

[es347]

Back in the mid 90s when we built our first HT, 3 houses ago, our Friday night ritual of wine and music in front of the 2ch living room system all but ceased to exist. Friday nights became a time for watching concerts and movies in surround. I can't help but think that many others went through that same transformation. I got seriously back into the 2ch hobby in 2007 in a house that sports a fairly isolated audio room and a very nice HT....at a considerable expense I might add. Most folks that I know would never dream of investing what I have into 2ch or really even HT. As long as some of these audio manufacturers continue with their outrageous pricing policies for both legitimate gear and the snake oil, our hobby will never be taken seriously by the general public. One thing I find refreshing however, is the amount of gear available in the sub $2K or even $1K stratum. Had I to do it over, I feel confident that I could put together a system for $5K that would more that satisfy.

 

[JackD201]

The issue isn't mid-level vs high-level, it's efficiency. There is no doubt that the output stage is not sufficient for a more difficult load. There's also no doubt that there are amps with better specs. I have a Headroom portable myself. It can make a significant difference with inefficient phones. An easy load? It one of those "I think I hear" things.

Tim

Okay, including you stating the obvious, I see where you're coming from. I own a touch and I still think it sucks. Looking at the stats or specs isn't changing that opinion.

 

[Ron Party]

Interesting albeit shallow article today at cnet.com authored by Steve Guttenberg entitled "Audiophiles In The Age Of 'Good-Enough Sound": http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20040143-47.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody;1n

This line gave me pause for thought:

In 1998, The New York Times estimated that high-end audio sales totaled approximately $500 million a year. In 2010, the CEA says, sales were around $200 million.

I wonder if these numbers are true, particularly the 200M. On a gut level to me, it seems low, but I have no evidence to prove or disprove it.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I think audio is already cool.

Popular is a different Rubic's Cube.

I tell my kids, "don't try to be popular, just be yourself and see who is drawn to you."

I would tell audio the same thing.

Trying to be cool is the antithesis of cool.

agree completely....and that's basically what i said in post #3;

you don't worry about it. high end audio either is worthy of sustaining itself or it's not. the passion should be contaigious.

personally i approach this issue just like any other question in this hobby; it's all about listening and being captivated by what you hear. when people hear i'm an audiophile i invite them to come listen. many accept my invitation and a good percentage of those have become serious about the hobby.

forget about force-feeding the high end audio experience thru marketing. ask people to listen and the music will do it's thing with those who 'get it'.

great sounding music can stir your soul and is worth going to the trouble to be able to enjoy.

if what we are doing in this hobby has merit it will sustain itself just fine.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

You probably have the wrong headphones, Jack. Look up the stats on a Touch from anything in the last couple of generations. Suck is not a word one would use to describe what's coming out of them. And there are many ear canal phones that don't need, or even benefit from an amp, and a few of them are very good.

Tim

i was at a Headphone meet this weekend. there were 40 people there and maybe double that amount of different headphones, amps and sources.

i had both my HD-800/Woo 6SE and Stax O2/SRM-717 set-ups using my Playback Designs MPS-5 as the source for both. almost everyone wanted to listen to the Stax, and many had i-Pods/i-Touchs to compare to other sources. so i had a chance to hear many i-pods thru various headphones, some with separate amps and some directly out of the i-Pod or i-Touch. a few people plugged their i-pod or i-Touch into my amps and then we listened compared directly to the Playbacks.

on one hand music is music and is worthy on any level; but in that environment it's easy to quickly hear the limitations of an i-Pod and i-Touch compared to good, better, and best alternatives. there is quite a large gap from bottom to top.

i'll add that short direct comparisons to better sources; an i-Touch into good headphones can sound great. there is nothing 'bad' about it.

 

[KeithR]

I'm 33---so am the generation manufacturers want to corral and I am the only person I know my age (on Wall Street or buyside or wherever) that is an audiophile and have been so for 10 years.

One big problem is the abundance of media to take our time. Social networking, blu ray, ipods, itouches, smartphones, online activity---all takes place of music.

For those who are waiting for the next Elvis or Frank or Floyd---- Radiohead is at least as good as Pink Floyd ever was---there is a professor at Northwestern in the music department who wanted to teach a course on them. You might pick up the latest Arcade Fire for someone who could be the next one. Wilco is another extremely talented band---how about Muse (they are ridiculously overseas popular)? Dave Mathews is still selling out concerts for as long as the Grateful Dead were. Equivocating my generation to Biever and Lady Gaga is extremely ignorant, at best. I'm sure all of us can point out shitty 60s, 70s, or 80s rock/pop. The Monkees, Kansas, and Tiffany to name a few??

I find older audiophiles in general don't care about new music. When I used to walk into audiophile shops and ask for rock---the Eagles was put on. At shows we get Diana Krall and the ilk. Come on guys! One of my older audiophile friends in his 50s doesn't have a cd with a rock band from the 2000s---but loads up on every Steely Dan or whatever 70s bands that is extinct. I forward him new stuff all the time but have never heard him buy a copy. Take a pause from buying Steve Hoffman audiophile approved rock and go out and hear some new bands. Even explore some electro stuff (Hotchip, Thievery Corp, Air, Gotan Project etc) while you are at it---this is what younger folks are listening to a lot of these days.

Audiophile pricing has gotten extreme which has turned off people to this hobby. All other technology comes down in price, but audiophile pricing has gone stratospheric in recent years. I used to be able and go buy a great pair of speakers for 5k-10k. Now that is more like 25k---and mags like TAS focus on 60k BS cables, 4k "tweaks," and other nonsense instead of things that younger audiophiles would care about stuff like music servers and to a more limited extent, vinyl (without 60k phono stages). If you are a young guy and you see a bunch of 40k speakers and amps, you feel the price of admission is only for the "crazies." On the other side, the new writer for Stereophile Steven Meijas (sp?) seems like the kind of guy we need to see more of---his new "Entry Level" column is extremely well written and relevant to younger folks just getting started!

These are just some of my thoughts and pet peeves---hope not to offend anyone, but this subject strikes a chord with me.

KeithR