How Good a CD Transport is Required to Sound Better than Streaming?

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There seems to be a fairly solid consensus (Lucasz Ficus, LL21, Al M, etc.) that CD playback or computer file playback, or perhaps both, sound better than streaming (assuming, of course, that all other variables, including the DAC, are held constant).

But I assume that one cannot assume that any device that can spin a CD necessarily will achieve better sound quality than will streaming.

So how good a CD transport does one need to achieve CD playback which sounds better than streaming? Where do the lines (rising sound quality of better transport and streaming sound quality) cross?
 
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None of things you've said justifies skipping.
mostly.....the only time i skip (less than a full song) is when i'm doing a quick check on some particular objective type question. and it's not limited to digital. if i'm setting up a cartridge i'm finding a part of a track that gives me the feedback i need. skipping is a TOOL! if i listen to a whole track i lose my left brain fine focus and am not as precise in my adjustment......the musical flow takes over my brain. maybe if i'm in the mood for 'sounds' then why not 'skip' if it's fun? nothing nefarious about it. maybe i want under 20hz digital info, then parts of tracks are relevant. been years since i cared about that subject, but it's not out of bounds. maybe guitar riffs? or drum solos? we can descend into 'sound' liking sometimes not that there is not musical immersive enjoyable intake too.

if i'm in mid cut and another track comes to mind then why not skip? if i do that continually for an hour that can be exhausting. but doing it in the flow of my session? perfect.

i do enjoy some of the Quboz or Tidal playlists, which can be hours and hours of individual tracks. or my own playlists. but as 70% of my listening is classical and i prefer whole pieces and albums i don't do a lot of individual track listening....let alone skipping.

my most recent 'FAV' playlist is 17 hours long and the Complete Shostakovich catalogue on Quboz. fantastic sound. each work complete.

it's all good.

really, really, optimizing all (multiple) sources?......sure.....it can be done. but it will cost you. make sure the system is such to optimize what those great sources can do.
 
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First of all I am all in on streaming! I love the fact that I am the master of my domain and that I can listen to almost anything without getting off my chair. Having said that I have nothing against any format. What must happen however, which most do not do, is to optimize the source that you choose. I dont get having many sources and all are just there. You can optimize any of them yet most don't optimize any. I also don't know why you need them all but that is another subject,
If you enjoy records, great then optimize that. If you like streaming then optimize it like everything in this business a steamer/server is not the same as every other streamer.
All audio is not created equal, pick your source and get it done to the best of your ability for the most enjoyment
It's not the source that is paramount importance to me, it's the medium, the music. I have 3,750 ethnic recordings on LP, 78, CD and cassettes. 85% are NOT available for streaming. I have 1,000s and 1,000s of 78s, LPs and CDs which are not streamed and probably will never be streamed. Next, what if streamed music becomes no longer available? Pulled in favor of other recordings, etc? At least 50% and maybe 70% of my music collection is NOT available for streaming. Then there is the issue of information concerning the recordings. To my knowledge, streaming has close to no information concerning recordings. Discogs is the best source of recording information. Sorry, streaming is for people who are either lazy (which is fine for relaxing and listening to whatever is available for streaming), have virtually no or limited storage capabilities, have limited funds for purchasing/acquiring physical media or equipment to play it on, are uninterested in knowing anything concerning the provence or recording information, hearing unheard music, hearing new recordings, hearing recordings that should be heard, etc. Many reasons. It is NOT for people who want to hear music which is unavailable generally. Youtube has a better selection in MP3 format and in whatever form/quality the poster has submitted.

What you stated is both true but does not emphasize the MUSIC. If it's not available for streaming, it goes unheard.
 
It's not the source that is paramount importance to me, it's the medium, the music. I have 3,750 ethnic recordings on LP, 78, CD and cassettes. 85% are NOT available for streaming. I have 1,000s and 1,000s of 78s, LPs and CDs which are not streamed and probably will never be streamed. Next, what if streamed music becomes no longer available? Pulled in favor of other recordings, etc? At least 50% and maybe 70% of my music collection is NOT available for streaming.

Then you go on listening to your recordings. No one is telling you to give up on them.

Then there is the issue of information concerning the recordings. To my knowledge, streaming has close to no information concerning recordings.

Yes, most streaming has very limited information on recordings. We have to get if from adequate sources, not from the streaming platform.

Discogs is the best source of recording information.

Sorry, no. Discogs usually has information about performers and technical team and a few details. Music sites and sites from magazines have a lot more to complement it. Digital subscriptions of specialized magazines are available at decent low cost and give us access to great databases.

Sorry, streaming is for people who are either lazy (which is fine for relaxing and listening to whatever is available for streaming), have virtually no or limited storage capabilities, have limited funds for purchasing/acquiring physical media or equipment to play it on, are uninterested in knowing anything concerning the provence or recording information, hearing unheard music, hearing new recordings, hearing recordings that should be heard, etc.

Sorry it is not true. Streaming is surely for the same people that listened to LPs and CDs without even reading the liner notes, but anyone knowing how to search properly the net can find a lot of information about the recordings and become an active streamer listener. The fact that there are millions of recordings available forced me to become more active to select the recordings and I now get much more information before listening, not just picking a few recordings in the limited selection available at local shops. Yes, I miss the human factor of going in a shop and buying from some one I knew well.

BTW, the first thing I do in any net involved platform is switching of any auto play or recommendation feature.

Many reasons. It is NOT for people who want to hear music which is unavailable generally. Youtube has a better selection in MP3 format and in whatever form/quality the poster has submitted.

IMO you are too biased by your particular case. An interesting perspective, but not general.

What you stated is both true but does not emphasize the MUSIC. If it's not available for streaming, it goes unheard.

IMO the number of recordings that is not available since long in LP is much higher than what is not available nowadays in streaming. Most of us do not want to carry a life searching for old LPs or CDs. We want music, not a collector hobby.
 
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Then you go on listening to your recordings. No one is telling you to give up on them.



Yes, most streaming has very limited information on recordings. We have to get if from adequate sources, not from the streaming platform.



Sorry, no. Discogs usually has information about performers and technical team and a few details. Music sites and sites from magazines have a lot more to complement it. Digital subscriptions of specialized magazines are available at decent low cost and give us access to great databases.



Sorry it is not true. Streaming is surely for the same people that listened to LPs and CDs without even reading the liner notes, but anyone knowing how to search properly the net can find a lot of information about the recordings and become an active streamer listener. The fact that there are millions of recordings available forced me to become more active to select the recordings and I now get much more information before listening, not just picking a few recordings in the limited selection available at local shops. Yes, I miss the human factor of going in a shop and buying from some one I knew well.

BTW, the first thing I do in any net involved platform is switching of any auto play or recommendation feature.



IMO you are too biased by your particular case. An interesting perspective, but not general.



IMO the number of recordings that is not available since long in LP is much higher than what is not available nowadays in streaming. Most of us do not want to carry a life searching for old LPs or CDs. We want music, not a collector hobby.
I collect to listen. I toss recordings I have no intention or desire to hear more than three times annually. I've disposed of 18,000 records and probably 5,000 to 10,000 more are pending disposing. I do not spend my life searching for "old LPs or CDs." I spent a life of listening to great performances of great music of many genres. I've used streaming occasionally to check on a recording I was interested in, such as I heard on the car radio.

Find me some Joseph Winogradoff 78s in mint condition and I'll pay a significant amount. Yes, I search for recordings of performers I already know and want to hear more of.
 
Anyone complaining about the sound quality of streaming vs. vinyl or CD has not optimized their streaming system.
I've heard excellent streaming. About 15% of streamed music (especially analog recordings) are equal to or superior to CD sound. However, due to source materials, remastering, etc. more often than not, streamed analog source material is inferior. Higher percentage of digital source material sounds great on streaming. I also find too many inferior "modern" digital source recordings though; particularly, post 1995 recordings (pop's the worst).
 
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If a descriptor is not technical and not an industry standard like in your case - assigning a material type to a sound, then yes, it most definitely is subjective and biased. Because you both used the same word doesn't not make it so.

And yes, agreed, digital streaming is getting better even at lower cost gear. in most systems I hear nowadays, I'd rather hear moderate to lower cost streaming over vinyl. It's only when you spend ~$20K+ on analog that, in some situations it starts to pull ahead in terms of sonics (my experience via multiple shows as of recent).
You are almost correct. A good analog set up which is highly musically involving generally involves a stable speed, low vibration turntable, quality tonearm but the cartridge could be $1200 or less and beat streamed sound. Adding a quality phono pre-amp could add another couple $1000s. So, maybe under $10K. Great LP sound isn't cheap unless purchasing higher quality used equipment. My front end analog is under $25K and my front end digital is under $30K. Not including cabling. But this is WBF not what's adequate or what can beat streaming. Great streaming in WBF can be $50 plus (Taiko for instance with a quality DAC).
 
It's not the source that is paramount importance to me, it's the medium, the music. I have 3,750 ethnic recordings on LP, 78, CD and cassettes. 85% are NOT available for streaming. I have 1,000s and 1,000s of 78s, LPs and CDs which are not streamed and probably will never be streamed. Next, what if streamed music becomes no longer available? Pulled in favor of other recordings, etc? At least 50% and maybe 70% of my music collection is NOT available for streaming. Then there is the issue of information concerning the recordings. To my knowledge, streaming has close to no information concerning recordings. Discogs is the best source of recording information. Sorry, streaming is for people who are either lazy (which is fine for relaxing and listening to whatever is available for streaming), have virtually no or limited storage capabilities, have limited funds for purchasing/acquiring physical media or equipment to play it on, are uninterested in knowing anything concerning the provence or recording information, hearing unheard music, hearing new recordings, hearing recordings that should be heard, etc. Many reasons. It is NOT for people who want to hear music which is unavailable generally. Youtube has a better selection in MP3 format and in whatever form/quality the poster has submitted.

What you stated is both true but does not emphasize the MUSIC. If it's not available for streaming, it goes unheard.
If the source is not paramount (which I can perfectly understand) why are you involved in this thread?
 
Here a $35 transport matched an $11,000 transport, I certainly used to advocate spending more on the transport than the DAC, is that no longer the case?

 
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If the source is not paramount (which I can perfectly understand) why are you involved in this thread?
Because I want to get as much sonic and music information as possible off my source material. I prefer the Jay's Audio CDt3 Mk3 for my main listening room and the Shanling ET3 for my leisurely living room (plus it's 10X smaller for the small rack there, cheaper and lower resolution system).
 
Because I want to get as much sonic and music information as possible off my source material. I prefer the Jay's Audio CDt3 Mk3 for my main listening room and the Shanling ET3 for my leisurely living room (plus it's 10X smaller for the small rack there, cheaper and lower resolution system).
OK. I rip all my CDs (because I don't hear a difference between playing the files and the CD, and prefer the convenience of the files + having custom metadata). The thread is about CDs versus streaming. So given the same "source material" (i.e. a CD) you prefer playing the CD with those CD players than ripping them and playing the files?
 
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Here a $35 transport matched an $11,000 transport, I certainly used to advocate spending more on the transport than the DAC, is that no longer the case?

Great, maybe you're correct here. This particular cheap transport is equal to an expensive one. HOWEVER, I would want to hear a wide music genre with greater dynamic, complex music with minimal reverb. I remember hearing a $125,000 planar speaker that stupendous with bass clarinet, possibly cello and violin. Put on an 12 piece jazz band (Art Pepper and 11) and it crapped out.

Other than one recording test, maybe your right. Then we can all junk our big expensive transports. The topic won't be relevant anymore for WBF.
 
OK. I rip all my CDs. The thread is about CDs versus streaming. So given the same "source material" (i.e. a CD) you prefer playing the CD with those CD players than ripping them and playing the files?
I've ripped my CDs via EAC to thumb drives and give them as gifts and used in audio shows as well. I have nothing against using them in servers either. 16,100 CDs are too many for me to rip though. I also copy my digital recordings to thumb drives and hard drives as well as CDrs. My friend who lives 3 doors down with a different high end system ONLY listens to ripped CDs (he has 3,000+) he used EAC for and now on thumb drives and computer (maybe a server). He likes playing his music via a computer system rather than from the CDs themselves.
 
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I've ripped my CDs via EAC to thumb drives and give them as gifts and used in audio shows as well. I have nothing against using them in servers either. 16,100 CDs are too many for me to rip though. I also copy my digital recordings to thumb drives and hard drives as well as CDrs. My friend who lives 3 doors down with a different high end system ONLY listens to ripped CDs (he has 3,000+) he used EAC for and now on thumb drives and computer (maybe a server). He likes playing his music via a computer system rather than from the CDs themselves.
How do you organize your CD collection? The small print makes it really difficult for me to find things quickly.
 
P.S. i have roughly 50.000 tracks in my digital collection. If I were to listen to each of them 3 times a year, I would have to listen to over 400 tracks per day, every day :)
 
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To those of you who own the Jay’s CDT3, do you prefer to stay with 16:44 setting, or use the upsampling option? There is a little toggle switch at the back that allows upsampling.. appreciate any feedback.
Hello,

I have the Jay's CDT2MK3 transport. Instead of having the toggle switch on the back of the transport unit, with mine I can toggle back and forth via the remote control. I have tried it on a few occasions and I have always preferred it on the 16:44 setting. So now I just keep it on 16:44. This is being played into my Mojo Audio Mistyqe X-24AM R2R dac. Maybe it would be different when playing into a different dac, but for now I am happy where it's at.

Best wishes,
Don
 
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Not sure why people seem to always equate streaming with skipping around and listening to different single tracks. I stream my music and 99% of the time I listen to complete albums.
I think it's great that you listen to complete albums! I did not mean to imply that everyone who streams their music simply skips around and listens to single tracks. However, that is what I most often encounter with the people that I personally know who stream.

In any case, I still enjoy the sound quality that I get from my physical media, I enjoy the handling of the media - maybe the ritual of it, and I enjoy the artwork and the photo's as well as the liner notes that often come with the physical media.

Who knows, as I am aging and facing more and more health concerns, I might consider getting into streaming as I may no longer be able to cue a record, etc at some point. I'm just not quite ready to yet. However, I figure by the time I am ready... streaming will be all the more better as the technology seems to get better and better each year!

Also, I am not suggesting that physical media sounds superior to the streaming. I am not trying to rekindle that debate, lol.

At the end of the day, we are all blessed to be able to enjoy vast arrays of music - whether it's vinyl, tape, cd/sacd or streaming. So we all win :)

Best wishes,
Don
 
Here a $35 transport matched an $11,000 transport, I certainly used to advocate spending more on the transport than the DAC, is that no longer the case?

Devil is in details and there's subjectivity. Speakers, room, treatment? Then there's his ears.

But I would argue a transport makes less of a difference versus a DAC.
 
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