How much does it bother you to see people arguing on the forum. Analogists and digitalists and subcategories.

[Massimo66]

Personally, in the last few days I have encountered a continuous squabble in some posts within the forum. I have no problem reading opinions that differ from mine, nor do I feel threatened by those who express thoughts diametrically opposed to my own. On the contrary, I try to read and understand the reasons for the opinions expressed by others and I always try to take them into account. Something can always come up that in my journey as an audiophile I had underestimated or had never taken into consideration. Someone very wise said that true knowledge is knowing that you don't know. If the opinions expressed by others do not convince me or I do not find confirmation of them, even simply based on my personal taste, nothing happens. I am truly tired of those who address others on the assumption that they possess the revealed truth. and who, hiding behind their superior idea, attack those who do not submit to their reasoning. Live and let live

 

[Republicoftexas69]

I enjoy the differing opinions as well as both digital and analogue playback. I am in agreement with your point. I just roll with it, like you so eloquently said “live and let live”.

 

[unboxed]

Ignoring the too numerous "analog is better" posts which are guaranteed to devolve into arguments, I find too many other threads also devolve. There have been topics I was interested in that turned into many ego-driven pages of "I am right and you are wrong". I stopped even trying to follow the topics.

Intelligent discussion can be constructive but, for the most part, that is not what I am experiencing.

 

[Carlos269]

Personally, in the last few days I have encountered a continuous squabble in some posts within the forum. I have no problem reading opinions that differ from mine, nor do I feel threatened by those who express thoughts diametrically opposed to my own. On the contrary, I try to read and understand the reasons for the opinions expressed by others and I always try to take them into account. Something can always come up that in my journey as an audiophile I had underestimated or had never taken into consideration. Someone very wise said that true knowledge is knowing that you don't know. If the opinions expressed by others do not convince me or I do not find confirmation of them, even simply based on my personal taste, nothing happens. I am truly tired of those who address others on the assumption that they possess the revealed truth. and who, hiding behind their superior idea, attack those who do not submit to their reasoning. Live and let live

Have to practice what you preach, “Live and let live”.

 

[PeterA]

It doesn’t bother me at all. People have different opinions, and they are passionate about their hobby. Those opinions are expressed with vigor. I think it’s much more refreshing than a bunch of diplomats always shaking hands and smiling.

 

[Al M.]

I think that in discussions many people believe that their subjective perceptions and preferences are the objective truth. That is a problem.

Certainly, there are objective, even measurable truths out there that many use, and legitimately can use, to support their subjective preferences. Also, discussion of technical issues can be informative and fun. It can separate facts from technical misunderstandings, too.

Yet what many do not want to admit, or do not realize, is that objective truths in audio do not stand on their own.

Both:
a) the selection of objective truths and
b) the assignment of importance to them

as a tool to justify subjective preferences are -- well, subjective.

Certainly, experts like audio designers, recording engineers etc. will have deep objective knowledge in important areas, but also *their* subjective preferences and biases will always be with them and guide their work to a significant extent, as well as their private enjoyment.

This brings me to another point. Many posters cite experts using the argument from authority. Discussions then often devolve into slugfests of "I have the objective truth, because my expert is better than yours!". Of course, nobody says it that way, but that's what they really mean.

Yet again, since also experts have their own subjective perceptions and preferences, appeal to experts is no way out either. Experts can add interesting perspectives, nothing more.

The fact is that in the end, all we have left is our subjective perceptions and preferences. There is no objective truth in support of them that will allow us to impose our subjective perceptions and preferences onto others.

A little humility in recognizing this may go a long way towards civilized discussion.

 

[Lagonda]

I think that in discussions many people believe that their subjective perceptions and preferences are the objective truth. That is a problem.

Certainly, there are objective, even measurable truths out there that many use, and legitimately can use, to support their subjective preferences. Also, discussion of technical issues can be informative and fun. It can separate facts from technical misunderstandings, too.

Yet what many do not want to admit, or do not realize, is that objective truths in audio do not stand on their own.

Both:
a) the selection of objective truths and
b) the assignment of importance to them

as a tool to justify subjective preferences are -- well, subjective.

Certainly, experts like audio designers, recording engineers etc. will have deep objective knowledge in important areas, but also *their* subjective preferences and biases will always be with them and guide their work to a significant extent, as well as their private enjoyment.

This brings me to another point. Many posters cite experts using the argument from authority. Discussions then often devolve into slugfests of "I have the objective truth, because my expert is better than yours!". Of course, nobody says it that way, but that's what they really mean.

Yet again, since also experts have their own subjective perceptions and preferences, appeal to experts is no way out either. Experts can add interesting perspectives, nothing more.

The fact is that in the end, all we have left is our subjective perceptions and preferences. There is no objective truth in support of them that will allow us to impose our subjective perceptions and preferences onto others.

A little humility in recognizing this may go a long way towards civilized discussion.

Nicely put Al !

 

[thedudeabides]

My view. It's a Sociaetel isse

 

[thedudeabides]

My take. It's a general societal issue in this country (aka tribalism) and, unfortunately, it is going to get worse. Finding common ground and agreeing on what is "factual" has become extremely difficult with many topics. Civil discourse is more often the exception than the rule. WBF simply mirrors this general trend. Sad but IMHO true.

 

[Bobvin]

I’ve always understood every discussion degenerates to sex or farts, unless on an audio forum, where it seems to degenerate to analog vs digital. I think the former is more fun.

 

[tima]

It's a general societal issue in this country (aka tribulism)

Tribalism. A choice not to assimilate but stay divided.

 

[tima]

I’ve always understood every discussion degenerates to sex or farts, unless on an audio forum, where it seems to degenerate to analog vs digital. I think the former is more fun.

From you that explains alot.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I’ve always understood every discussion degenerates to sex or farts, unless on an audio forum, where it seems to degenerate to analog vs digital. I think the former is more fun.

Some might argue analogue is closer to sex and digital was originally a bit more of a brain fart.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

This brings me to another point. Many posters cite experts using the argument from authority. Discussions then often devolve into slugfests of "I have the objective truth, because my expert is better than yours!". Of course, nobody says it that way, but that's what they really mean.

if a point is made claiming expert perspective, then retorting with expert perspective is reasonable. and it's up to each observer to figure it out. this is part of any dispute. always. forever. get over it if it hits your restrictive zone. part of perspective is data points that have led you down that road to that opinion. so it's part of any position you claim. normal stuff. how can it not be?

 

[bonzo75]

Some might argue analogue is closer to sex and digital was originally a bit more of a brain fart.

I would say digital puts you at that age in the teens where you think you know the concept, but haven’t yet experienced the real thing

 

[the sound of Tao]

I would say digital puts you at that age in the teens where you think you know the concept, but haven’t yet experienced the real thing

But atleast music continues to let us know the difference between both great sound and great music… the cruel part is though even though old age does its best to make us forget much of the sex part (apparently…) it then leaves much of the farts part

 

[andromedaaudio]

These discussions dont bother me its just that i dont read them anymore.
Music is all about preferences.
What those discussions mostly boil down to is:

My preference is better then yours

 

[Gregm]

I think that in discussions many people believe that their subjective perceptions and preferences are the objective truth. That is a problem.

Certainly, there are objective, even measurable truths out there that many use, and legitimately can use, to support their subjective preferences. Also, discussion of technical issues can be informative and fun. It can separate facts from technical misunderstandings, too.

I agree.
I would add that sometimes, some people do not distinguish between "I believe that", "I accept that" and "I know that". And that is how the long discussions ensue -- apart from the adage,
"I post, therefore I am".

I believe refers to choosing to accept something - religion is one example. Which is fine, it is our choice to not need "evidence" to support our decision.
Accepting can come in the face of objective data: I accept the conclusion based on your data - or not (why not?).
"I know" would refer to something that is deemed indisputable: our skin has a limited tolerance to heat; the speed of sound varies slightly with the external conditions; etc.
When the "I believe" is served as "I know", controversy begins... (as you note as well)

A little humility (...) may go a long way towards civilized discussion.

Amen! Humility and respect, maybe? Regards

 

[tima]

The fact is that in the end, all we have left is our subjective perceptions and preferences. There is no objective truth in support of them that will allow us to impose our subjective perceptions and preferences onto others.

... makes me think of system videos.

 

[Holmz]

I’ve always understood every discussion degenerates to sex or farts…

Sounds like a Reece’s Peanut Butter cup type of joke opening?