How much does it bother you to see people arguing on the forum. Analogists and digitalists and subcategories.

[Slingblade]

What fun would a forum be without a little arguing?

 

[Rensselaer]

I keep hoping that our experts, through some sort of Socratic process of questions and answers, will develop new insight, audio truths that will help guide the industry in direction, and me, as a consumer, in selecting products but unfortunately we keep getting stuck because someone wants to defend their beliefs from any questioning whatsoever and people, like me, who take issue with their doing that.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I keep hoping that our experts, through some sort of Socratic process of questions and answers, will develop new insight, audio truths that will help guide the industry in direction, and me, as a consumer, in selecting products but unfortunately we keep getting stuck because someone wants to defend their beliefs from any questioning whatsoever and people, like me, who take issue with their doing that.

You should try other " experts " then obviously , if you get stuck.
If you feel you re going the wrong way

 

[Kingrex]

Don't worry. One day we will have an AI to sanitize what you see and we will all walk mindlessly aound nodding in agreement. It will be Utopia.

 

[Slingblade]

Don't worry. One day we will have an AI to sanitize what you see and we will all walk mindlessly aound nodding in agreement. It will be Utopia.

One day? We're close.... unfortunately.

 

[wil]

I keep hoping that our experts, through some sort of Socratic process of questions and answers, will develop new insight, audio truths that will help guide the industry in direction, and me, as a consumer, in selecting products but unfortunately we keep getting stuck because someone wants to defend their beliefs from any questioning whatsoever and people, like me, who take issue with their doing that.

What I find odd, regarding the so called analog/digital debate, is why the contingent of vinyl users who:

a.) use only vinyl. B.) wouldn't be caught dead using digital.

feel the compulsion at every possible opportunity to proselytize the superiority of their vinyl choice and their conclusion that digital audio is irredeemable inferior.

I wonder what the motivation is? Can the enjoyment of their concept of superior vinyl playback only exist relative to something they deem inferior?

 

[Rensselaer]

What I find odd, regarding the so called analog/digital debate, is why the contingent of vinyl users who:

a.) use only vinyl. B.) wouldn't be caught dead using digital.

feel the compulsion at every possible opportunity to proselytize the superiority of their vinyl choice and their conclusion that digital audio is irredeemable inferior.

I wonder what the motivation is? Can the enjoyment of their concept of superior vinyl playback only exist relative to something they deem inferior?

Maybe they looked at the cost of equipment necessary to get digital to sound as good as vinyl and think, hell, I already have a good record player and records, why spend so much more just to get something that can allegedly match it in performance?

 

[bonzo75]

What I find odd, regarding the so called analog/digital debate, is why the contingent of vinyl users who:

a.) use only vinyl. B.) wouldn't be caught dead using digital.

feel the compulsion at every possible opportunity to proselytize the superiority of their vinyl choice and their conclusion that digital audio is irredeemable inferior.

I wonder what the motivation is? Can the enjoyment of their concept of superior vinyl playback only exist relative to something they deem inferior?

I assume decisions of a rational audiophile are based on sonics and the cost value. So I can understand someone paying up if he thinks he is getting better sonics. I do not understand someone paying up if he is fully aware he is getting lesser sonics.

So, as long as your digital costs are below the cost of a decent analog set up (including cleaner, accessories, etc) plus a few hundred quality records, I totally understand people staying digital. Cost of moving to vinyl is too high and for the layman not worth it. I include the time cost of learning/pain to set up analog.

However, totally beats me when people start upgrading to serious digital costs that surpass the above vinyl costs easily. This only means:
1. They are not rational, i.e. they are willing to pay up knowing fully well it won't sound as good as a vinyl set up (that is fine, but they should not rationally try to justify digital vs analog in debates), or
2. They believe they are rational, and this cost will surpass a vinyl set up, and is justified (in which case I conclude they have little exposure to either realism or gear or both). More likely they started with a low priced digital set up and got trapped into the upgrade cycle, a typical NLF case.

 

[Djcxxx]

The internet's absence of traditional human interaction encourages speaking prior to thinking. Pascal once apologized to a friend for writing a lengthy letter as he did not have time to write a short one,

 

[wil]

I keep hoping that our experts, through some sort of Socratic process of questions and answers, will develop new insight, audio truths that will help guide the industry in direction, and me, as a consumer, in selecting products but unfortunately we keep getting stuck because someone wants to defend their beliefs from any questioning whatsoever and people, like me, who take issue with their doing that.

Maybe they looked at the cost of equipment necessary to get digital to sound as good as vinyl and think, hell, I already have a good record player and records, why spend so much more just to get something that can allegedly match it in performance?

Your reply has nothing to do with what I wrote.

 

[wil]

I assume decisions of a rational audiophile are based on sonics and the cost value. So I can understand someone paying up if he thinks he is getting better sonics. I do not understand someone paying up if he is fully aware he is getting lesser sonics.

So, as long as your digital costs are below the cost of a decent analog set up (including cleaner, accessories, etc) plus a few hundred quality records, I totally understand people staying digital. Cost of moving to vinyl is too high and for the layman not worth it. I include the time cost of learning/pain to set up analog.

However, totally beats me when people start upgrading to serious digital costs that surpass the above vinyl costs easily. This only means:
1. They are not rational, i.e. they are willing to pay up knowing fully well it won't sound as good as a vinyl set up (that is fine, but they should not rationally try to justify digital vs analog in debates), or
2. They believe they are rational, and this cost will surpass a vinyl set up, and is justified (in which case I conclude they have little exposure to either realism or gear or both). More likely they started with a low priced digital set up and got trapped into the upgrade cycle, a typical NLF case.

Sure, that’s a viewpoint that can be argued or counter argued. It’s not the point of what I wrote — maybe I wasn’t clear enough!

 

[Massimo66]

It's nice to read yours posts where polite tones reign supreme and where a bit of humor and self-irony bring a smile to my face after a tiring day at work. I think that those who say they know are deluding themselves, I prefer to dedicate time to knowing and learning and I am always ready to question myself. after all, absolute truth does not exist. What is true today can be refuted tomorrow (and this is more true for those who make digital an absolute scientific truth as well as for those who support analogue, otherwise there wouldn't be research there too and we would all be listening gramophones again)). I don't like those who know the answers, I like those who seek the answers more. and quoting Oscar Wild "Everyone is capable of giving answers, but it takes a genius to ask the real questions". The true scientist always knows how to delve into his own achieved goals which is exactly what we do to improve the reproduction of our beloved systems. The point is not to compare on different levels but to do so with respect for others.

 

[Rensselaer]

Your reply has nothing to do with what a wrote.

What does “what a wrote” mean?

 

[wil]

What I wrote

 

[bonzo75]

What does “what a wrote” mean?

Digital correction for “what I wrote”

 

[Rensselaer]

What I find odd, regarding the so called analog/digital debate, is why the contingent of vinyl users who:

a.) use only vinyl. B.) wouldn't be caught dead using digital.

feel the compulsion at every possible opportunity to proselytize the superiority of their vinyl choice and their conclusion that digital audio is irredeemable inferior.

I wonder what the motivation is? Can the enjoyment of their concept of superior vinyl playback only exist relative to something they deem inferior?

Then there are those who have no desire to share ideas and learn from each other, only to create fictitious positions so that they can argue the absurdity of their creation!

 

[stehno]

....

I wonder what the motivation is?

More a constraint than a motivation, I’d venture it’s due to a greater than usual lack of critical thinking.

Can the enjoyment of their concept of superior vinyl playback only exist relative to something they deem inferior?

Sure it can. Happens all the time spanning across all industries and there’s always reasons for it - not always good. In the case of high-end audio, I suspect the cause circles back to the rather large gulf that separates the music lover types (including many audiiophile types) from the performance-minded types. Which seemingly must include listening skill levels - as should everything we do in this audio-only pursuit.

 

[davidavdavid]

bothers me not in the least, all this arguing/bickering makes me feel better about myself and my system(s)
#unintendedconsequence #reapthespoils

 

[the sound of Tao]

These arguments don’t bother me but actually there is no need to argue. Time will tell which (analog vs digital) is better as it has been with music. Most of the 60’s jazz and rock music considered to be forgotten in two years still praised today, after 60 years while many rivals considered to become classic are forgotten.

IMHO better format will not wipe but overthrow the other.

Analogue, digital, what prevails or survives? The frightening and increasingly exponential nature of rate of change makes it impossible to make any predictions on technology or culture. I’m guessing that people spending $250k on a digital source and it being a boat anchor within a decade is not sustainable. Maybe rather than which formats dominate and survives the question is does the high end even survive.

Maybe our own AI brain augmentations will replace all music by singing directly to us personally inspired compositions internally and neurally or maybe the only music will be whale song and Lagonda’s late string quartets from his very fertile final composition period. Who knows. Crystal balls and even the immediate future are scarily vague and increasingly fragile things unfortunately.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I assume decisions of a rational audiophile are based on sonics and the cost value. So I can understand someone paying up if he thinks he is getting better sonics. I do not understand someone paying up if he is fully aware he is getting lesser sonics.

So, as long as your digital costs are below the cost of a decent analog set up (including cleaner, accessories, etc) plus a few hundred quality records, I totally understand people staying digital. Cost of moving to vinyl is too high and for the layman not worth it. I include the time cost of learning/pain to set up analog.

However, totally beats me when people start upgrading to serious digital costs that surpass the above vinyl costs easily. This only means:
1. They are not rational, i.e. they are willing to pay up knowing fully well it won't sound as good as a vinyl set up (that is fine, but they should not rationally try to justify digital vs analog in debates), or
2. They believe they are rational, and this cost will surpass a vinyl set up, and is justified (in which case I conclude they have little exposure to either realism or gear or both). More likely they started with a low priced digital set up and got trapped into the upgrade cycle, a typical NLF case.

Increasingly it becomes clear that in the end the most valuable thing to build is the music library.