How much does it bother you to see people arguing on the forum. Analogists and digitalists and subcategories.

[Republicoftexas69]

I enjoy both and just love listening to music.

 

[treitz3]

I enjoy both and just love listening to music.

^^^ This. ^^^

I can appreciate what all of the top three formats have to offer. Each with their own attributes and deficiencies.

My love of music trumps all. Listening as I type and I simply love being immersed into the music so much that the worries of the world simply fade away into musical paradise. A slice of heaven here on Earth, if you will.

Tom

 

[Ron Resnick]

I do not understand someone paying up if he is fully aware he is getting lesser sonics.

Do you have examples of this, please?

Who pays up "fully aware he is getting less sonics"?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Increasingly it becomes clear that in the end the most valuable thing to build is the music library.

Sorry to quibble, Tao, but this is not clear to me. Respectfully, I feel you are projecting here your desires.

If I never added another track to my music library I think I'd be fine. But I certainly would consider spending money to upgrade a component if it improved my musical enjoyment of my existing music library on a Pareto Optimal or at least on a net basis.

 

[the sound of Tao]

What fun would a forum be without a little arguing?

and the other thing I’ve learnt is think never argue with a guy named Slingblade

 

[the sound of Tao]

Sorry to quibble, Tao, but this is not clear to me. Respectfully, I feel you are projecting here your desires.

If I never added another track to my music library I think I'd be fine. But I certainly would consider spending money to upgrade a component if it improved my musical enjoyment of my existing music library on a Pareto Optimal or at least on a net basis.

All good Ron, was definitely individual evaluation and more been doing a big picture retrospective and reflection thing about where I went right and OMG where I went especially wrong. I was at the ocean the other day and the young dude beside me was talking (long and loudly) on his phone about all the things he’d want to go back and tell his younger self… OMG I felt like saying you don’t have far to go but it also got me thinking about what I’d tell myself to do back in the 60’s and 70’s back right at the beginning. I’d also whisper something about not worrying about solid state and buying into a vertical tasting of WE300Bs and generally collecting vintage horn, analogue and SET.

 

[Al M.]

I’m guessing that people spending $250k on a digital source and it being a boat anchor within a decade is not sustainable.

Why do you worry about an extremely small market segment? The total expense of my entire digital chain is $ 10K, including all expensive digital interconnects and audiophile power cords. If I want to upgrade my DAC I can buy a new board module for 800 bucks, big deal.

Maybe rather than which formats dominate and survives the question is does the high end even survive.

Of course it will. There are plenty headphone enthusiasts who are into great sound and have their own highly active online fora. The high-end will survive, even though it may be in a somewhat different form than you and I are used to.

Maybe our own AI brain augmentations will replace all music by singing directly to us personally inspired compositions internally and neurally or maybe the only music will be whale song and Lagonda’s late string quartets from his very fertile final composition period. Who knows. Crystal balls and even the immediate future are scarily vague and increasingly fragile things unfortunately.

Or maybe you just need to drink a chill pill and enjoy the moment rather than fretting about the future.

 

[Al M.]

Increasingly it becomes clear that in the end the most valuable thing to build is the music library.

Mine is already way too big. I have a bunch of CDs that I haven’t even unwrapped yet. I still buy new music of course, but now more strategically.

 

[cjfrbw]

I’d tell myself to do back in the 60’s and 70’s back right at the beginning.

Obviously, (in California) sell real estate and put every last spare penny into Apple, Microsoft, and Hewlett Packard stock. Then, you could purchase every expensive audio bauble in the world and throw them away when you were tired of them.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Why do you worry about an extremely small market segment? The total expense of my entire digital chain is $ 10K, including all expensive digital interconnects and audiophile power cords. If I want to upgrade my DAC I can buy a new board module for 800 bucks, big deal.



Of course it will. There are plenty headphone enthusiasts who are into great sound and have their own highly active online fora. The high-end will survive, even though it may be in a somewhat different form than you and I are used to.



Or maybe you just need to drink a chill pill and enjoy the moment rather than fretting about the future.

As fun as they sound trust me no chill pills are required Al, I’ve been in a reduced work mode with some health stuff over the last year and a half which thankfully has had some really good outcomes as well… guess I was more thinking about the ramping up nature of speed of change and how a lot of what we are focussed on now and is relevant to us and the age we have lived through but may just not be as relevant always. Even with my work teaching design things like AI Al (sorry Al) create phenomenal changes in how we make and how we teach and what creation and IP are even. Culture will always find a way to connect to music but where that technology takes us is not at all certain I’d think. Not stressing over it though, it is what it will be.

 

[treitz3]

The internet's absence of traditional human interaction encourages speaking prior to thinking.

Yes sir. That aspect escapes some folks.

Tom

 

[bonzo75]

Do you have examples of this, please?

Who pays up "fully aware he is getting less sonics"?

Is there In my post. If one’s digital surpasses the vinyl costs I mentioned, he by default is either 1 or 2. There can’t be another category

 

[mtemur]

Analogue, digital, what prevails or survives? The frightening and increasingly exponential nature of rate of change makes it impossible to make any predictions on technology or culture. I’m guessing that people spending $250k on a digital source and it being a boat anchor within a decade is not sustainable. Maybe rather than which formats dominate and survives the question is does the high end even survive.

Maybe our own AI brain augmentations will replace all music by singing directly to us personally inspired compositions internally and neurally or maybe the only music will be whale song and Lagonda’s late string quartets from his very fertile final composition period. Who knows. Crystal balls and even the immediate future are scarily vague and increasingly fragile things unfortunately.

I think high end will survive because men like gadgets. Since everything becomes embedded in smartphones the need for owning and using gadgets in men becomes more apparent.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I think high end will survive because men like gadgets. Since everything becomes embedded in smartphones the need for owning and using gadgets in men becomes more apparent.

I hope the next gen make more of a revival of it and skew the age of the hobby back down into a future and a potential ongoingness. If it’s aided by gear lust and gadgets then more traditional sexier more golden age gear will also be preserved then I guess. But it’s not really obvious that’s really happening much yet at either hifi shows or at a forum level. We live in hope.

 

[exupgh12]

It doesn’t bother me as long as things don’t get personal. I don’t know everything, nor do I presume to, so there is always room to learn new opinions, facts, and knowledge.

I've never understood why some people treat this hobby and these forums as battlegrounds. It’s okay not to agree on everything.

 

[spiritofmusic]

What forum do you suggest for folks who want to further hone their debating skills and take it up a level from WBF. Especially on digital Vs analog, surely all this practice needs to amount to something

Non audio forums, WBF are amateurs compared to some of the culture war spats I observe and take part in.
Those would get threads here shut down at light speed.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I imagine a peacefull world with only one amplifier brand for everybody

 

[Hear Here]

Personally, in the last few days I have encountered a continuous squabble in some posts within the forum. I have no problem reading opinions that differ from mine, nor do I feel threatened by those who express thoughts diametrically opposed to my own. On the contrary, I try to read and understand the reasons for the opinions expressed by others and I always try to take them into account. Something can always come up that in my journey as an audiophile I had underestimated or had never taken into consideration. Someone very wise said that true knowledge is knowing that you don't know. If the opinions expressed by others do not convince me or I do not find confirmation of them, even simply based on my personal taste, nothing happens. I am truly tired of those who address others on the assumption that they possess the revealed truth. and who, hiding behind their superior idea, attack those who do not submit to their reasoning. Live and let live

I have no problems with honest arguments - in fact I think it's healthy and good for any forum - as long as it remains good natured and not offensive.

I'm sure I've ruffled a few feathers when expressing views on various subjects, but I try to do so in a logical fashion. I welcome well-argued disagreement, but I don't like "You are wrong" claims from anyone not prepared to say why he thinks I'm wrong - hopefully with as logical an argument as my own. Vive la difference.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I assume decisions of a rational audiophile are based on sonics and the cost value. So I can understand someone paying up if he thinks he is getting better sonics. I do not understand someone paying up if he is fully aware he is getting lesser sonics.

So, as long as your digital costs are below the cost of a decent analog set up (including cleaner, accessories, etc) plus a few hundred quality records, I totally understand people staying digital. Cost of moving to vinyl is too high and for the layman not worth it. I include the time cost of learning/pain to set up analog.

However, totally beats me when people start upgrading to serious digital costs that surpass the above vinyl costs easily. This only means:
1. They are not rational, i.e. they are willing to pay up knowing fully well it won't sound as good as a vinyl set up (that is fine, but they should not rationally try to justify digital vs analog in debates), or
2. They believe they are rational, and this cost will surpass a vinyl set up, and is justified (in which case I conclude they have little exposure to either realism or gear or both). More likely they started with a low priced digital set up and got trapped into the upgrade cycle, a typical NLF case.

there are many perspectives about system building. and more to it than purely ultimate sonics. and judging decisions about system building might be different whether you are a listening for a few hours a week, 20-30-40 hours a week, or just visiting. time listening and what you do while listening extended hours might also be a factor.

then there are degrees of system building; rooms and acoustics and signal path optimization. too many to try to describe simply, or begin to capture by category.

then there are different personal choices as to the type of system, physical media commitments, and format choices. and variables in being a music explorer, and liking a more limited choice of media. and if you are an explorer, how much the sonics of that matters.

and then decisions as to how far to pursue any particular direction. whether speakers, or room tune, or power grid.......or vinyl performance.....or digital performance.

i can certainly understand how a hifi tourist might see things through their own set of experiences, and not be wrong for how he sees it. sampling systems in short 2-3 day bites it might be a strong sense that it is pointless to over-spend on digital when in those short periods why listen to digital when vinyl can be better. and being totally immersed in the vinyl culture it can be intoxicating and cause you to wonder about why anyone would go in other directions seriously.

why indeed?

what you actually do when you are in your own room listening, is a different case than what you think others are doing, or what you see when you are visiting. we have to be happy for our own selves.

OTOH judging others based on your personal life approach is not entirely fair; yet it's how things work. ok.....ok. being a big target i'm use to shots across my bow.

and i do see how a case can be made generally that since high quality digital can be found at relatively sane investment levels, that on sonics you get farther with a greater vinyl investment. i agree with that objectively. but then putting general labels on other peoples decisions, whether this or your NLF nonsense is rude and demeaning. why do we need to go here?

Is there In my post. If one’s digital surpasses the vinyl costs I mentioned, he by default is either 1 or 2. There can’t be another category

and then doubling down and making a case it can only be a certain way is just being intentionally provocative.

you sir, are a sh*t stirrer.

have a nice day.

 

[bonzo75]

you sir, are a sh*t stirrer.

Thanks for recognising. Sucks when efforts go unnoticed