How much does it bother you to see people arguing on the forum. Analogists and digitalists and subcategories.

[bonzo75]

there are many perspectives about system building. and more to it than purely ultimate sonics. and judging decisions about system building might be different whether you are a listening for a few hours a week, 20-30-40 hours a week, or just visiting. time listening and what you do while listening extended hours might also be a factor.

then there are degrees of system building; rooms and acoustics and signal path optimization. too many to try to describe simply, or begin to capture by category.

then there are different personal choices as to the type of system, physical media commitments, and format choices. and variables in being a music explorer, and liking a more limited choice of media. and if you are an explorer, how much the sonics of that matters.

and then decisions as to how far to pursue any particular direction. whether speakers, or room tune, or power grid.......or vinyl performance.....or digital performance.

i can certainly understand how a hifi tourist might see things through their own set of experiences, and not be wrong for how he sees it. sampling systems in short 2-3 day bites it might be a strong sense that it is pointless to over-spend on digital when in those short periods why listen to digital when vinyl can be better. and being totally immersed in the vinyl culture it can be intoxicating and cause you to wonder about why anyone would go in other directions seriously.

why indeed?

what you actually do when you are in your own room listening, is a different case than what you think others are doing, or what you see when you are visiting. we have to be happy for our own selves.

OTOH judging others based on your personal life approach is not entirely fair; yet it's how things work. ok.....ok. being a big target i'm use to shots across my bow.

and i do see how a case can be made generally that since high quality digital can be found at relatively sane investment levels, that on sonics you get farther with a greater vinyl investment. i agree with that objectively. but then putting general labels on other peoples decisions, whether this or your NLF nonsense is rude and demeaning. why do we need to go here?

and then doubling down and making a case it can only be a certain way is just being intentionally provocative.

you sir, are a sh*t stirrer.

have a nice day.

Let’s take an example. Assume you are a digital only guy.

So you appreciate the sound of vinyl and know it has a certain cost. It is isn’t just the cost of equipment and records but also the cost of conversion. Let’s say you have a figure of that total in your head. 30k, 50k, let’s call it X.

Why would you then not stay in digital well below X, or worse, why would you cross X by a margin on digital?

Of course, alternative is person hasn’t grown to appreciate the sound of vinyl and thinks his investment is as good/better

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Let’s take an example. Assume you are a digital only guy.

So you appreciate the sound of vinyl and know it has a certain cost. It is isn’t just the cost of equipment and records but also the cost of conversion. Let’s say you have a figure of that total in your head. 30k, 50k, let’s call it X.

Why would you then not stay in digital well below X, or worse, why would you cross X by a margin on digital?

Of course, alternative is person hasn’t grown to appreciate the sound of vinyl and thinks his investment is as good/better

Ked, i'm not questioning your logic. and i said as much. i generally agree.

my issue is you feeling it's ok to pass judgment in such impersonal and rude ways. this is not black and white as you call it. people cannot be boiled down to your world view.

in so many things your approach is nuanced, very highly developed, and requiring lots of detail. yet you throw simple labels around at people. it's wrong.

just my 2 cents.

 

[bonzo75]

Ked, i'm not questioning your logic. and i said as much. i generally agree.

my issue is you feeling it's ok to pass judgment in such impersonal and rude ways. this is not black and white as you call it. people cannot be boiled down to your world view.

in so many things your approach is nuanced, very highly developed, and requiring lots of detail. yet you throw simple labels around at people. it's wrong.

It's not impersonal and rude, it is just provocative and sh*t stirring. There is a clear difference in the two.

 

[bonzo75]

For exploration, best is vinyl rips on YT streamed to a soundbar. You don’t need hifi for exploration.

 

[andromedaaudio]

You don’t need hifi for exploration

Off course not , you re the living example.

If you d back all your claims with some receipts / unfortunate purchases i d may be believe you

 

[bonzo75]

Off course not , you re the living example.

If you d back all your claims with some receipts / unfortunate purchases i d may be believe you

If you believe in me, my life goal would be complete. I will collect hifi receipts for that sole purpose. Kind of like a cow’s purpose is fulfilled after it turns into a burger

 

[Mike Lavigne]

For exploration, best is vinyl rips on YT streamed to a soundbar. You don’t need hifi for exploration.

prefer Roon. and the big rig with Level 4. if you happen to have a rocket ship you want to use it.

secondarily immersing myself in my classical Lp collection that i got a few years ago. waiting for some Lp shelves to arrive to allow me some expansion space as i'm a bit jammed up now.

 

[PeterA]

It's not impersonal and rude, it is just provocative and sh*t stirring. There is a clear difference in the two.

You, Kedar, are a sh*t stirrer. I simply stir the pot. Well done!

 

[bonzo75]

prefer Roon. and the big rig with Level 4. if you happen to have a rocket ship you want to use it.

I usually don't like digital rocket ships because they make me focus on what's wrong with the system. Streaming rips to low fi lets me explore the music and play all day long without fatigue. If one wants quality, well...vinyl.

It is kind of like I eat healthy or I eat excellent desserts, well curated sugar favorites. I don't pick up random pastries from Starbucks or the likes.

My cardio is in Zone 2 or Zone 5. Low intensity steady state cardio at lactate threshold or high intensity intervals for VO2 max. I don't do cardio in zone 3 or 4 anymore, just unnecessarily tiring.

 

[andromedaaudio]

So you re basically a higher level perfect human being.
Except the Hi Fi system

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I usually don't like digital rocket ships because they make me focus on what's wrong with the system. Streaming rips to low fi lets me explore the music and play all day long without fatigue. If one wants quality, well...vinyl.

what is your digital alternative to Youtube day in and day out?

 

[bonzo75]

what is your digital alternative to Youtube day in and day out?

Well I like Lampi as you know, so whatever model and streamer that keeps price below that X. But it is not just for exploration . Then it would then be the primary source, and only source, to play a system.

If you think you can better that by going above X, it does not make sense as the vinyl rig is then better.

 

[Lagonda]

Analogue, digital, what prevails or survives? The frightening and increasingly exponential nature of rate of change makes it impossible to make any predictions on technology or culture. I’m guessing that people spending $250k on a digital source and it being a boat anchor within a decade is not sustainable. Maybe rather than which formats dominate and survives the question is does the high end even survive.

Maybe our own AI brain augmentations will replace all music by singing directly to us personally inspired compositions internally and neurally or maybe the only music will be whale song and Lagonda’s late string quartets from his very fertile final composition period. Who knows. Crystal balls and even the immediate future are scarily vague and increasingly fragile things unfortunately.

I am working on my greatest opus "Late night Chamber pot music, for chilly lovers ." 5'Th movement is going to be riveting !

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Well I like Lampi as you know, so whatever model and streamer that keeps price below that X. But it is not just for exploration . Then it would then be the primary source, and only source, to play a system.

If you think you can better that by going above X, it does not make sense as the vinyl rig is then better.

no. not what you like. what do you personally now have as the Youtube alternative to listen to? if not listening to your laptop, what do you choose?

 

[wil]

For exploration, best is vinyl rips on YT streamed to a soundbar. You don’t need hifi for exploration.

In your opinion. I couldn’t disagree more. I think you need to realize your point of view comes across as almost comically narrow.

 

[bonzo75]

In your opinion. I couldn’t disagree more. I think you need to realize your point of view comes across as almost comically narrow.

Oh totally with your digital based system and outlook we are likely to have different views

 

[bonzo75]

no. not what you like. what do you personally now have as the Youtube alternative to listen to? if not listening to your laptop, what do you choose?

I still have my Lampi but no system. I stream on soundbar. If and when the system comes the soure investment will be in analog, as I have been collecting a few hundred LPs over the years

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I still have my Lampi but no system. I stream on soundbar. If and when the system comes the soure investment will be in analog, as I have been collecting a few hundred LPs over the years

I think that for someone without an alternative to Youtube, it's easy to see that YouTube is absolutely entertaining. it's great at what it does.

but for serious music explorers with high performance digital in their systems, it's a much better experiential alternative.

I wonder how many with high level digital + streaming...and/or.....+ discs listeners prefer YouTube and it's lower Rez (and lower playback fi) for music exploring? my guess is very few. because they desire the better performance. and while YouTube does present lots of related music alternatives, Roon does more easier and more aligned with serious listening. and there is no reason that music exploring cannot include serious listening.

horses for courses.

added note; honestly I expected you to say you were not serious and were just saying YouTube was the best as a joke. I guess not.

 

[bonzo75]

I think that for someone without an alternative to Youtube, it's easy to see that YouTube is absolutely entertaining. it's great at what it does.

but for serious music explorers with high performance digital in their systems, it's a much better experiential alternative.

Sorry, completely disagree. I haven’t seen serious music explorers here. On the other hand, I keep comparing performances all day long, there are absolute exotic rare performances on YT you wouldn’t have heard about. I also prefer listening to it more than most hifi systems I have heard, except serious vinyl sets horns and a couple of digital

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Sorry, completely disagree. I haven’t seen serious music explorers here. On the other hand, I keep comparing performances all day long, there are absolute exotic rare performances on YT you wouldn’t have heard about. I also prefer listening to it more than most hifi systems I have heard, except serious vinyl sets horns and a couple of digital

from your narrow musical viewpoint maybe. we each are where we are on the musical discovery path.

I respect your musical journey and wish you the best to find what you want from it. but dismissing other's path's is unfortunate. leave it at that.