I Had To Blink Twice To Believe this

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Hear Here

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Feb 14, 2020
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Still falling well short of what I pay in Switzerland...would be equivalent to around $8/gallon!
About £1.52 per litre - $7.60 per US gallon in UK.

Electric vehicles are OK if you do short journeys only, never put your foot to the floor and live somewhere with overnight access to a charging point.

Most countries rely on the billions collected in fuel taxes to pay for their (usually free) national health service, defence, etc. £28 billion is collected by the UK government each year from fuel duty. Where will they get this from if we all go electric? Maybe we'll be asked to pay to visit the doctor or hospital - heaven forbid!
 
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morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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yeah, but at least you folks have one of the most competent rail networks around !
Come to Switzerland if you want to see a competent rail system...
 
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BlueFox

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It's called Capitalism. Charge what the market will support.
 

rando

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Come to Switzerland if you want to see a competent rail system...

More topically

Come to Switzerland if you want to see overly competent enforcement of speeding laws. Apparently they even go so far as to suggest a ruminative pace at the pump.
 

morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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More topically

Come to Switzerland if you want to see overly competent enforcement of speeding laws. Apparently they even go so far as to suggest a ruminative pace at the pump.
Indeed the highest speeding fine ever was given there. It was a million Swiss francs and they took the guys car (A Bugatti I think). However, for “normal” speeding tickets you just pay a fine with no penalty points to accumulate. So, speed all you want if you can afford the normal fines but stay below the limit where it becomes heavily punitive.
 
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7ryder

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Joe Whip

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Out today and the gas is about $3.60 here. I only need it for the lawnmower and tractor. I go to the gas station twice a year. Looking to make it once next year then none in 2023.
 
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Joe Whip

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Is it cheaper for the electricity per mile? The electricity for everyone going "electric" will come from burning more fossil fuels in power plants...that is actually more wasteful as the losses in transmitting and storing electricity are significant and therefore less efficient than burning it at the source (i.e in the car itself). If you thought California had issues with brownouts before...wait till there are 100 million electric vehicles. Let's not think about the batteries...
Sorry, but more and more energy is being generated using renewables, not burning fossil fuels.this old canard has been debunked before. and building out and modernizing the power grid is somehow a bad thing?
 
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jeff1225

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Is it cheaper for the electricity per mile? The electricity for everyone going "electric" will come from burning more fossil fuels in power plants...that is actually more wasteful as the losses in transmitting and storing electricity are significant and therefore less efficient than burning it at the source (i.e in the car itself). If you thought California had issues with brownouts before...wait till there are 100 million electric vehicles. Let's not think about the batteries...
Wrong again:

 

BlueFox

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BlueFox

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howiebrou

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Jun 29, 2012
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Thanks. Do people drive much there, especially long distances?
Far too many cars on the road although the majority of the population will not be car owners due to cost (120% import tax), car parking spaces (one sold for around US$1.3M), fuel costs (10+ US$/Gallon) and a very good public transport network (any journey is US25Cents if you're over 65). As China opens up, journeys are likely to get longer. I used to drive about 100km a day if that is anything to go by.
 

carl13

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Feb 6, 2020
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Has the cost of gas in California gone up more than the cost of renting a U-Haul to move out of the state?

Just asking for a friend.;-)
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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we were in Los Angeles for the day yesterday visiting the recently opened Academy Museum for Motion Picture

We saw this gas station on the next block View attachment 85876

Won't be surprised if this is the price for Starbucks coffee, tall, Venti, etc
 

morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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Wrong again:


First of all, I am not sure what the article you posted has to do with my statement about losses in transmission of electricity and that it is perhaps better that cars burn it at the source rather than plug in.


California loses 9.2% of the electricity produced in distribution of that electricity to its end destination.

Based on those losses it could be argued that it is less efficient to burn gas to make electricity to power your car than to burn gas to power it directly.

As to the 95% claim in this article...well it is completely and utterly false. If you look at the source article, which is from the LA Times,


it says that California hit 94.5% renewables... for 4 seconds!

"There are several caveats. For one thing, Saturday’s 94.5% figure — a record, as confirmed to me by the California Independent System Operator — was fleeting, lasting just four seconds. It was specific to the state’s main power grid, which covers four-fifths of California but doesn’t include Los Angeles, Sacramento and several other regions. It came at a time of year defined by abundant sunshine and relatively cool weather, meaning it’s easier for renewable power to do the job traditionally done by fossil fuels."

Talk about misleading!! The Hill article seizes on this and doesn't include ANY of the caveats of the first article and is clearly a propaganda piece by a very conflicted author:

Andreas Karelas is the founder and executive director of RE-volv, a nonprofit clean energy advocacy organization that has brought solar energy to nonprofits in 10 states.

Now the REAL data for the sources of electricity in California comes from the California energy commission;


48.4% of electricity generated in California was from natural gas
8.5% from nuclear
9.4% from large hydro
2.7% from coal (imported electricity not burned in California)

Total non-renewables was about 67%

Solar was 15.4%
Wind was 7.2%

So much for 95% of anything renewable...more than half is from gas and nuclear and just over 20% is from Solar and wind. Please don't go back into biomass as an argument...one of the reasons we still have trees on this planet is because we switched to fossil fuels in the early 20th century.
 
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Joe Whip

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Feb 8, 2014
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If we would have planted a new tree for everyone we cut down, we wouldn’t run out of trees. They are a renewable resource.
 

jeff1225

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Jan 29, 2012
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First of all, I am not sure what the article you posted has to do with my statement about losses in transmission of electricity and that it is perhaps better that cars burn it at the source rather than plug in.


California loses 9.2% of the electricity produced in distribution of that electricity to its end destination.

Based on those losses it could be argued that it is less efficient to burn gas to make electricity to power your car than to burn gas to power it directly.

As to the 95% claim in this article...well it is completely and utterly false. If you look at the source article, which is from the LA Times,


it says that California hit 94.5% renewables... for 4 seconds!

"There are several caveats. For one thing, Saturday’s 94.5% figure — a record, as confirmed to me by the California Independent System Operator — was fleeting, lasting just four seconds. It was specific to the state’s main power grid, which covers four-fifths of California but doesn’t include Los Angeles, Sacramento and several other regions. It came at a time of year defined by abundant sunshine and relatively cool weather, meaning it’s easier for renewable power to do the job traditionally done by fossil fuels."

Talk about misleading!! The Hill article seizes on this and doesn't include ANY of the caveats of the first article and is clearly a propaganda piece by a very conflicted author:

Andreas Karelas is the founder and executive director of RE-volv, a nonprofit clean energy advocacy organization that has brought solar energy to nonprofits in 10 states.

Now the REAL data for the sources of electricity in California comes from the California energy commission;


48.4% of electricity generated in California was from natural gas
8.5% from nuclear
9.4% from large hydro
2.7% from coal (imported electricity not burned in California)

Total non-renewables was about 67%

Solar was 15.4%
Wind was 7.2%

So much for 95% of anything renewable...more than half is from gas and nuclear and just over 20% is from Solar and wind. Please don't go back into biomass as an argument...one of the reasons we still have trees on this planet is because we switched to fossil fuels in the early 20th century.
The article clearly demonstrates the way forward, and it’s renewable resources. Solar, wind, tidal and Battery technology are improving daily.

Californian will have no problem hitting its renewable goal by 2045, with the state continuing to lead the way, much to the chagrin to the right wingers liking your posts Brad.
 

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
9,391
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Switzerland
The article clearly demonstrates the way forward, and it’s renewable resources. Solar, wind, tidal and Battery technology are improving daily.

Californian will have no problem hitting its renewable goal by 2045, with the state continuing to lead the way, much to the chagrin to the right wingers liking your posts Brad.
Its primarily BS...regardless of what you think about renewables. Since the basic premise of the article is false (California is nowhere near 95% renewable), why would I trust a single additional word from such a propaganda piece?

Will you plant the whole desert with solar panels? So much for desert wildlife... The relative lack of energy density in solar and wind means you need many times the area to get a similar power output. Again, not very ecologically friendly.

There will likely be a shortage of Li to make high density battery storage as well if they end up in all cars, trucks etc....talk about a lot of waste!...unless someone figures out how to make the fuel cell more practical (about the only renewable I can see working long term) you will create more problems than you will solve. I would also reconsider expanding nuclear again...France is very clean and they generate 75% of their electricity (and even export to "green" Germany) by nuclear...sensible people...

You might hit it by 2045 but at what price...the cure will likely be worse than the disease...these are not easy solutions like you seem to think they are. Oh and importing electricity from other states and/or countries to hit the target is not a true success...you have just pushed the problem elsewhere...

A bit of critical thinking reveals that it is not as simple as "more solar and wind". Never forget how heavily subsidized these are in most places. It is not a universal solution as energy storage is a huge issue when the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow.

You might also be surprised to know that the earth has greened significantly. According to one research paper this is about 70% attributable to the increase in CO2...not so surprising if you know about the carbon cycle and the role plant life plays in it.

 
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