If tape is so good why does it record so poorly?

[Kingrex]

I have a new toy coming soon. Check out this frequency response from a cassette tape. I say not bad.

 

[Kingrex]

I had a tape that was really bad. All muddy. I sent it back and was told:

If the Tape sounded somewhat low and muddy it is probably because you had it wound on the reel backwards. The tape was reversed at some point and had the oxide out and not in as it should be for use on standard reel machines."

I don't get it. When I play a tape, I put in on the machine, I rewind it to the beginning, I play the tape through, then remove it from the machine and store it. Is this what is called tails out.

 

[Walter66]

There are two types of alignment of tape heads on tape machines, the German and the international. In the German alignment, the heads are positioned in such a way that the tape must be wound on the core/spool with the magnetic layer facing outwards in order to be able to touch the tape head directly.

With the international orientation, which has become accepted worldwide, the tone heads are mounted in such a way, such as on the ReVox B77. The tape is wound with the magnetic layer facing inward. This difference must be known in order to choose a suitable machine for playing the tape in question.

To make the layer position of a tape reel recognizable, the leader tape, which has the color code printed on only one side, is stuck to the tape so that the color code is visible on the layer side.

This means that for the German layer, the leader tape is glued on the outside, and for the international layer, it is glued on the inside of the magnetic layer.
Hope this helps. In future, if the leader tape is mounted correct, there can be no doubts of what is the magnetic tape side and what is the non magnetic tape side.

 

[Kingrex]

It sounds like your saying its upside down? I have an Otari 5050. Wouldnt the tape not play at all if it were not with the magnetic layer touching the heads?

 

[Tapetech]

When threading tape, it is somewhat easy to accidentally twist the tape so that the oxide side faces OUT instead of IN. Also check the play head surface with a strong light and a jewelers loupe. Look for 'brown stuff". Every time before you play a tape the heads should be cleaned. However some deposits don't remove easily with alcohol so the advanced inspection is needed.

 

[Lee]

I've been re-starting with compact cassette approx. one decade ago. Had some Studer/Revox Models and could audition the differences in sound quality between those models and even the cassette types and manufacturers. It was audible what character a true chrome like BASF had and which was the difference to asian pseudo- chromes. Had some different metal tapes, too.

Many of them were noisy as hell, much more noise than an excellent chrome. I don't talk about the cheap ferro or rare fe-cr types. The first type is noisy and the other is too rare to be used daily.
But when I tried out my first R2R, a simple Revox A77 and compared the sound with compact cassette, this chapter was over for me.
Sold my decks (much to early, today they have doubled in value) and got rid of those 500 cassettes.

Just because this was the first time, a tape recording sounded as I wanted it to sound. Big, deep, creamy sound, not like the always thin sounding CC decks. It is said that Willy Studer didn't liked CC. It was very clear to me from that point onwards, why. Its not about the frequency range, that may be as good. Its just for the better sonics, the more energy which can be stored on broader tapes (I only use two track, never four track) with faster speed. This is, where CC sucks.

Some people on forums often spread the word "I can't hear a difference between the recording and the original". Thats bullshit. Or something just people with mediocre sounding analog audio systems experience. Everyone who has a high definition, high resolution system that is capable of transporting energy (!) into the room and not just reproduce the whole frequency range can hear the difference.

But many people think they have highend gear at home and aren't being able to hear the difference between source and tape recording.
I hear it even with a Studer R2R or a Revox, but now it doesn't make me feel bad, because the sound is a little different, but still as rich, full and deep sounding like an analog LP record as the source. And maybe even better sounding compared to a digital source, some people say they favor the analog R2R recording of a digital source when listening to both. Well, that may be true, the effect is there. You cannot record on any medium, and the sound is still the same.

That's what I experienced many years ago with digital recordings on blank CD's from an original CD. The copy sounded different. Not that much in difference that an analog copy shows, but enough to make notice about it with the trained ear.

So every copy of any source, digital or analog is a loss in quality, but with R2R it doesn't bother me any longer. My Studer is much better than the Revox A77 though, but both degrade CC to what it always was: a cheap format for the masses with very small analog tracks and a very low speed, too low to compare with better formats, too small to compare even to the infamous Elcaset, which was a Frankenstein format between R2R and CC.

I have deep respect for the evolution of the CC in terms of sound quality and tape materials, but the format was ill fated from the beginning.
Too low were the standards for its speed and track width, once I read it was intended as a format for speech steno purposes.

Only later some people saw the chance with better tape materials to record music, too. Maybe that was possible, technically speaking, but like Willy Studer thought, its not as good as R2R and it wasn't satisfactory for me, too. Love R2R and recording, long may it live in the future.

A very good post. I think at 1 7/8 ips, there is really only so much you can do.

 

[Lee]

When I got the new PR99, the seller was nice enough to record something for me. It was quite close to the original sound. We used a Recording the Masters tape.

 

[Kingrex]

I feel kind of embarrassed. I'm not sure how I flipped the tape and did not notice. Then again, I don't have a light by the deck and I trying to use a small led flashlight sitting on a table to see while loading the tape. That particular tape does not have a clearly defined top and bottom. Not like the copies on SM900. I'm surprised it reads through the backing.

My double speed cassette is close to done. This is the frequency response. I think is pretty fantastic for a Maxell XLSIIS. Hopefully some other tape heads will get one.

Supply chain to get parts to upgrade the electronics is slowing it down. I'm super excited. I have 74 reels of 1/4" x 15 ips. I love the sound, but its work to load and I never rewind to a song. I rewind the entire reel, then have to reload, then play it all the way through. Some tapes I really like a song. Its a lot of work. A cassette of favorites will be nice. And I am not wearing out the master copys I have.

 

[Kingrex]

When threading tape, it is somewhat easy to accidentally twist the tape so that the oxide side faces OUT instead of IN. Also check the play head surface with a strong light and a jewelers loupe. Look for 'brown stuff". Every time before you play a tape the heads should be cleaned. However some deposits don't remove easily with alcohol so the advanced inspection is needed.

I clean my heads frequently with 99% alcohol. I use a good magnifying glass to check them. I also bought a solution to use on the rubber rollers. I look at the heads about every 4th or 5th tape. Not every play.

 

[dminches]

Folks, let’s get this thread back on topic.

 

[adrianywu]

I feel kind of embarrassed. I'm not sure how I flipped the tape and did not notice. Then again, I don't have a light by the deck and I trying to use a small led flashlight sitting on a table to see while loading the tape. That particular tape does not have a clearly defined top and bottom. Not like the copies on SM900. I'm surprised it reads through the backing.

My double speed cassette is close to done. This is the frequency response. I think is pretty fantastic for a Maxell XLSIIS. Hopefully some other tape heads will get one.

Supply chain to get parts to upgrade the electronics is slowing it down. I'm super excited. I have 74 reels of 1/4" x 15 ips. I love the sound, but its work to load and I never rewind to a song. I rewind the entire reel, then have to reload, then play it all the way through. Some tapes I really like a song. Its a lot of work. A cassette of favorites will be nice. And I am not wearing out the master copys I have. View attachment 100875

No need to be embarrassed. It has happened to everyone, I am sure. The modern tapes usually have a different coloured backing, but it is very difficult to tell with some of the older tapes.

 

[Walter66]

<Greatest magic trick ever under the sun
Perfectly executed, skillfully done
It happened so quickly, so quick, by surprise
Right there in front of everyone's eyes
thousands were watching, no one saw a thing
Wolfman, oh Wolfman, oh Wolfman, howl
Rub-a-dub-dub, it's a tapeheads most foul>

 

[Lee]

I clean my heads frequently with 99% alcohol. I use a good magnifying glass to check them. I also bought a solution to use on the rubber rollers. I look at the heads about every 4th or 5th tape. Not every play.

I believe some recommend between every tape.

 

[Foxbat]

There is nothing that "some" will not recommend.

 

[Walter66]

One can wipe each LP record before playback, because dust is everywhere.
But with tape, it depends on the status quo of the tape.
I only use new tapes, since my old Maxells sold very well and they became prone for dropouts after decades.
With new tapes, cleaning of the heads and tape drive section is rarely necessary. Maybe every hundred or more hours.
Then, mostly the capstan drive is really a bit dirty, the heads only very faint artificial dust. They would work exactly the same even if cleaned every 500 or 1000 hours with those new tape materials.
But if one uses old tapes, it really depends how stable the materials being used are. With some old tapes, it can be necessary to clean everything just after one tape playtime. With others, good old tapes, just evey ten or more.

 

[Foxbat]

That is correct, but also note that there is difference in shedding between the brands. The cleanest one I know is the RTM tape, ATR always sheds noticeably more, so your cleaning regiment will depend on it.

Also the tape model... I have not seen any visible shedding with 468 tape, even the old Agfa one.

 

[adrianywu]

How about demag ? I have read somewhere that it is not even necessary to demag. I usually perform the ritual of cleaning the heads, rollers and then demag every week. Even though I only use new tape (SM468, SM911), I still notice substantial amount of residue coming off the heads onto the cotton buds using a professional tape head cleaner. Less if I clean with alcohol.

 

[SeagoatLeo]

How about demag ? I have read somewhere that it is not even necessary to demag. I usually perform the ritual of cleaning the heads, rollers and then demag every week. Even though I only use new tape (SM468, SM911), I still notice substantial amount of residue coming off the heads onto the cotton buds using a professional tape head cleaner. Less if I clean with alcohol.

I must lazy. I only demag every 20 hours. How destructive is that?

 

[Kingrex]

How do you demag. Do you take the machine to another room. I hear you should be 30 feet or so from your tapes. Don't you have to start walking towards the machine from a good 10 feet, then get up to the heads, move the demag tool around, then slowly move back 10 feet and turn it off.

 

[Ron Resnick]

MikeL

What is your demagnetization protocol?